UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:39 pm

Hello all,

It seems a major airline has stolen one of my a.net pics to illustrate their website. I won't name the airline or plug the pic as I don't want them pulling it off too fast.
Photographers that have been in the same situation, please advise.

Many thanks,

Will

Special  Big thumbs up to 707cmf for watching my back.
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:50 pm

The received wisdom Will is that you take a screen grab of the offending page and along with a copy of your image you send them an invoice for the usage.

Best of luck mate. BA ripped off one of my photos and have simply taken to ignoring me.  Sad

Rez
 Sad
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Ad

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:07 pm

Special to 707cmf for watching my back.

You're welcome. It was quite random, but I was checking that airline website (schedules et al) when I saw a picture that seemed familiar. A positive ID was easy since the pic is also on A.net (prepare to see it plugged here  Laugh out loud)

So I call the UTA guy, and here it goes :

"Hey, have you ever checked out **** website ?
- Nah, don't have the time for it
- Well, go there now
- okay, now what
- click to that **** link
- okay, now wh... HOLY CRAP"

Priceless  Big thumbs up

Cheers,

707
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:07 am

Send them invoice for large amount. Politely mention that you will proceed with legal action if not paid.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Ad

Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:44 am

Update - the same pic is being used on 5 different pages.
How does that affect things ?

Will
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
LHSebi
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:11 am

Instead of asking for 200$, you ask for 1000, easy!  Laugh out loud

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
TZ
Posts: 908
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:19 am

Best of luck William - should be good for £10 or £25. If they even enter into dialog about it at all!

Tamsin (a.net screening crew)
TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:47 am

OK, so post the URL for the site...
What better plug for your picture???
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
LHSebi
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:24 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:43 am

Miamiair:

I won't name the airline or plug the pic as I don't want them pulling it off too fast.
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:50 am

Aw man, this could be good. Ask for a large amount. Good luck bud!!
Go big or go home
 
INNflight
Posts: 3526
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:01 am

A fellow photographer and good friend of mine was in a similar situation some time ago, when an aircraft manufacture took his image illegally.
He first contacted his lawyer and told him the whole story... The lawyer sent a letter to the company and told them that they will proceed legal action if they do not want to pay, the company apologized and paid quite a nice sum!

Maybe you should contact your lawyer, too... Might look more "serious" than from yourself if the airline gets it from a law firm  Insane

Good luck!

Florian
Jet Visuals
 
United4everDEN
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:47 am

Why is it such a big deal? I would be honored to have a pic of mine on an airlines' website. I would let them have it for free too. It would be rediculous to pursue this unless you absolutly need the money or av photography is more than just a hobby for you.
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:51 am

would say its the principle of the thing, clearly has a copyright banner at the bottem of our photos, wouldnt be too honored by a companey that goes around knicking peoples stuff
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Dazed767
Posts: 4967
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:56 am

Why is it such a big deal? Because they are stealing a copyrighted image without permission. Letting them have it for free is a big mistake and hurts us all in the end. It is a hobby for me, but it is nice to be rewarded every once in awhile.

Justin
 
lennymuir
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:58 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:15 am

Similar situation happened to me last year

The received wisdom Will is that you take a screen grab of the offending page and along with a copy of your image you send them an invoice for the usage..

Yup, exactly as above: send them a print of your shot with the airliner.net copyright banner and quote the URL on your letter with an invoice too.
(Real paper in their hand works better than e-mails, honestly)

I wouldn't go in too heavy at first, that will spook them.
Whoever did it, they will also have a boss. That's who you are aiming for.
My situation took a few weeks to resolve. Once settled (amicably) other
'official' purchases followed.

Take it easy

Gerry
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:18 am

United4EverDEN - Congratulation on what is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Your prize is in the mail.

It's a big deal because it is quite simply illegal. An operational company that has a budget for such things instead decides to STEAL (and that is exactly what it is) an image which belongs to an individual. It's like selling a photo for free. Companies will send an email to 10 photographers with a similar image of a plane just waiting for an IDIOT to bite and offer the photo for free. The money is there.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:35 am

Why is it such a big deal? I would be honored to have a pic of mine on an airlines' website. I would let them have it for free too. It would be rediculous to pursue this unless you absolutly need the money or av photography is more than just a hobby for you.

What about that offer you had for F9 that was something in the order of 500 bucks?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
jderden777
Posts: 1677
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 9:56 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:12 am

it is a big deal because all of the people that are content with giving away their images for free are kinda helping to ruin it for others who do stand the chance to make some money and even make their living as an aviation photographer...i'm not saying that i do that for a living but there are others here that do...also not to mention all that was said about it being illegal...but hey if you're ok with someone stealing your property that's your own deal

jd
"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Ad

Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:00 am

If you don't like them displaying your picture, then just ask them to remove it... If you choose to file a lawsuit against them this is probably the most you would get them to do unless they chose to settle out of court. In the US all intellectual property is copyrighted the moment the work is created, however you can't file a lawsuit for copyright infringement unless you have physically registered your work with the copyright office. Again, this may be different in your country, but the US Copyright office recognizes Ireland copyrights so I assume it is similar. You couldn't even sue them to repay your legal fees.

For my personal feeling... like the other poster said, I would be honored if an airline used my photograph on their website. I would be perfectly happy with them recognizing me as the photographer... This would be a much greater reward than a couple hundred bucks.

I'm not singleing you out, but it seems like all of these amateur photographers are trying to get paid everytime someone uses their photograph. Unless you are a professional, just have fun with the hobby.

Let the flames begin  Smile
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:05 am

"For my personal feeling... like the other poster said, I would be honored if an airline used my photograph on their website. I would be perfectly happy with them recognizing me as the photographer... This would be a much greater reward than a couple hundred bucks."

Well, I'm sure the same airline would feel as honored to fly you around for free.

Staffan
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:39 am

With some of these posts about "hey, what's the problem, it's cool to have my pic on their site for free" it's no wonder why we never receive replies to licensing quotes from people interested in usage. That's all I'm gonna say...

Mike
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Ad

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:31 pm

Ok people, here is what I sent out :
Dear Sir/Madam,

It has come to my attention that one of my pictures hosted on www.airliners.net (ID XXXXXX) has been used on 5 different pages of your website without a license.

The following pages are :

http://www.XXX.com/1
http://www.XXX.com/2
http://www.XXX.com/3
http://www.XXX.com/4
http://www.XXX.com/5

I am honored that you have chosen one of my pictures to illustrate your operations, however photo licensing usage comes with a license and a fee.
Therefore I will be following up this correspondance with an invoice and a licensing agreement.

I am sure this is a misunderstanding from your part and no malice was intended.
Do not hesitate to contact me should you have any further questions.

Best regards,

William Ronciere


Wish me luck Big grin

Will
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
aagold
Posts: 542
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:32 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:46 pm

I have to agree with Mike. All who are so anxious to give away their work for free ruin it for everyone, themselves included. One day they will grow up and realize that this hobby/passion, whatever, costs them big bucks and that they deserve a reasonable return on their investment. Maybe I should go to Nikon and ask for a free lens because I want to give away my photos for free. You know what the response to that would be.

Do you think whoever steals your image charges their customer less because they ripped off your image? I doubt it. They proably charge for the photo and put it in their pocket rather than acknowledging the photographer who did the work. Let's face it, they are thieves to begin with. If they weren't your pictures wouldn't appear in unauthorized places. Everyone deserves fair compensation for their work and, at a minimum, at least a request for usage before the image is used.

Art
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:51 pm

Someone's up late?

Yeah Ima have to agree with Art. When people approach me for one print of a picture of their aircraft that's one thing, I don't charge any extra than what it actually costs to make the print, but when it comes to website/brochure/magazine usage where someone will be making money off of my photo, you can bet that I want a piece of the pie.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:07 pm

Good Luck Will  Big thumbs up

Keep us posted on any news.

Ryan! maybe you should go work for that airline for free  Wink/being sarcastic

These airlines have massive budgets and for them to rip off a photo is theft. If you robed something of theirs it would be quite a different story.

Good point Staffan  Big thumbs up

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
ckw
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RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:22 pm

I'm not singleing you out, but it seems like all of these amateur photographers are trying to get paid everytime someone uses their photograph. Unless you are a professional, just have fun with the hobby.

A while back I probably had a similar attitude, or perhaps more like "who am I to think my pictures are worth selling". It was my wife that put me straight. Her view was:

1 - You can do something which other people want to buy - you're not twisting anyones arm

2 - You spend a lot of money on equipment, and always moaning about wanting something else - well, this is your way of getting it

3 - If you just give your pics away, what does that say about your own respect for your work?

As always, she was, I think correct, and I changed my outlook - I would call myself "semi-professional" at the moment. This dosen't mean I gouge as much as I can from anyone I can ... indeed, I do give pics for free if i feel the use is something I want to support but, commercial photography is a big business - people make their livings from it, and organisations have budgets to make purchases.

I see no reason at all why the money I spend on equipment should be used to subsidise anyone else's business ... I already give Canon enough  Smile

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
jamotcx
Posts: 839
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:20 am

RE: Urgent - Pic Stolen By Major Airline - Need Advice

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:42 pm

Well said Colin, now I just need someone to want to buy my dodgy pics hehe

Hope u get the money ur after Will! You might be able to recoup some of the money you just blew on ur new setup  Laugh out loud


Jamo

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