ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:47 pm

Had a phone call from my local store - my 20D is ready for pick up but, ive delayed them for a week.

am i getting cold feet, maybe im not sure....

Is it really worth the upgrade? im currently using a 10D.
ive heard alot of the pro's and cons but ive not heard someone turn around and say "hold on a minute, this is really how it is"?

i'd like to hear from anyone on the subject but particularily interested in 20D owners who upgraded from the 10D.

help!

Ryan Hemmings
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:52 pm

I'm glad I changed to the 20D.
Much better AF and much faster fps. AF points where I need them. Turns on asap instead of when the shot is gone.
No regrets.

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:45 pm

Ryan

Read this site, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/ Its a very un biased review.

There are a lot of improvements from the 10D. I have the 10D so I can't really coment on the 20D, but I would love to get one. Unless you really need the 20D I would spend my money on some L-glass, unless you have them already!

Good luck

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2733
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:44 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:41 am

Ryan,

The 20D is an awesome camera, but............

To be honest i know how you shoot and i have seen the pics you get now. I don't think having a faster FPS would help you, i have never heard you just run the buffer. And AF wise, how many shots have you missed due to poor AF??? Not too many i imagine. I'd spend the money on flying somewhere nice to shoot pics, or on another piece of glass. 24-70F2.8L? 17-40F4L?

These are my reasons for not upgrading, i am going to wait until i can afford my 1dmk2 as that to me offers a much bigger step up in peformance.

Just my thoughts.

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
sesd97
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:14 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:07 am

Hey Ryan,

....here's my 2c....assuming that the 10D & 300D are "almost" identical....

I upgraded from the 300D to the 20D, absolutely NO regrets and here's why:

- AF quicker .... this was a big issue for me because most of my lenses are not Canon "L", they're Sigma ... so the faster AF on the 20D compensated for my "slower" Sigma's.

- Speed at start-up (turn-on and it's ready).... you know I never thought this would make an impact, but I've got at least 10 pics in the DB that I would never have gotten with my 300D (bacause I was too slow or not concentrating!)

- 8mp vs. 6mp ..... ahhh, the big cropping debate. Well I'll tell you, if you want i'll send you a picture that when i took it, covers only a quarter of the full-size image !! But due to the high pixel count I cropped and made a fine image out of that little quarter block and this could never have been done on the 300D.

- MUCH better size and feel. It actually feels that I know what I'm doing as a photographer.....even though I don't (sometimes)!! Those of you who have actually held a 20D know what I'm talking about !

- 9 point AF ...to me just works great compared to my 300D. Maybe just a Sigma vs Canon lens thing...but I'm guessing better overall.

- Battery life....comes with the longer life Li-Ion cell.

- LESS Noise !! Even though I never had a huge issue with noise and my 300D, as Mies vd Rohe said "less is more..."

- and now for me .... THE biggest upgrade ..... FRAME RATE baby !!
....oh my, sounds like a machine gun, but keep that finger pressed and you'll roll off 25 pic's faster than Schummi at Monza !!

I was never very good at capturing that "exact ideal" moment. ....but hey, who cares anymore, welcome to the digital age! .... i'v got a 2gb card and I literally "go to town" at every shoot, capturing 200 images easy. What have I got to loose ? Yeah, I'm putting clicks on the clock, but I'm finally getting some good images ...... life's good !! Examples (and self plug).....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Shaun Edelstein
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Shaun Edelstein



Tried forever with my 300D to get something like this, then took these the first day with my 20D !!

I won't go into some of the cons, but hey .... this upgrade sure worked for me .....hope this helps............Shaun
 
spencer
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:30 pm

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:13 am

How's the image viewer on the rear LCD? I mean, have the times gotten any quicker over the 10D, as especially in RAW mode on the 10D, if I shoot a full buffer, then I'm hanging around twiddling my thumbs for God knows how long, missing this that and the other, until finally the images are ready to look at! Any thoughts?
Spencer.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
sesd97
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:14 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:16 am

Spencer .... at least twice as fast .... MUCH better, with minimal to no wait even with RAW images.....
 
User avatar
xiphias
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:29 pm

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:31 am

I've used a 300D quite a lot and a 10D a few times before I bought my 20D and I must say I'm glad I did.

- When you hit the switch you can click right away.

- It's also more energy efficient, I use one batt. for about 2 weekends now, that gives me about 1000 shots. I don't realy use the LCD so that's also a energy saver.

- As for the speed of the cam and display it's great. On the 10D/300D when you take a burst of shots or just fill up your buffer you have to wait till they are all written to the CF card before you can view them.
The 20D realy uses the fast speed of modern CF and clear buffer realy quick, but when I for example take a burst of 23 HIGH JPG (I always use RAW but for the example) shots, when the display finaly says busy I can just hit the play button and start viewing the first images while the cam is still writing to the card.
So I don't have to wait for the 23 images to be written to the card before I can view, I can view as they are written. Nice if you like to look at all your shots.

- Also much less noise on higher ISO. So to get better shutter and f I just boost up ISO to 400 or in dutch weather 800 and still get low noise images. I'd say that the noise of a 20D at 800 is about the same as the 300D at 200/400.

For the rest I realy have to agree with all the points of Sesd97 with maybe one con and that is that I have to change CF cards twice as fast since files are a little bigger but even more cause of the speed of the image taking. 512Mb is just getting to small.
I also plan to shoot RAW + HIGH JPG which should save on precessing time if the JPG is good. If JPG suxx then process RAW, this leaves 26 images on 512Mb. (I want to do this at events where I take a lot of pics and don't want to process them all.)

I also have to agree with the point that glass is more important then cam. A 20D with crapy glass wil prob make average pictures, but a 300D/10D with L glass makes good images. On the other hand a 20D with L glass make great images.

Here are 2 shots taken with 20D + 100-400mm L:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael W. Rosa
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael W. Rosa



Good luck with your decision Ryangooner.

-XiP
Xiph"i*as, n. [L., a swordfish, a sword-shaped comet, fr. Gr. xifi`as, fr. xi`fos a sword.]
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:21 pm

Tried forever with my 300D to get something like this, then took these the first day with my 20D !!

I have never had a problem getting images like that with my 300D, I think other 300D users will agree with me. Unless you recieved a lemon, I doubt the camera can be blamed. The 20D is a nice upgrade (one which I am looking at next month) but, the 300D is a perfectly capable camera if used right. Just my $0.02.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Kempf





Ryan,

You cannot go wrong with the 20D. Although, don't expect great images unless you have some good glass. The glass is more important than the camera IMHO. So a 10D with good glass would be a better choice than going with a 20D and cheap glass.








 
sesd97
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:14 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:45 pm

Chad, absolutely agree with you .....

If you read my post I stated real clearly that "I" was never very good at capturing great landing moments (otherwise I would have had already many such images in the DB!!)...... at no point anywhere in my entire post did i ever "bash" or say anything "negative" towards the 300D.

After getting the 20D, i got 3 perfect landing images accepted on the first try. I'm just giving my opinion that the faster frame rate allows for more flexibility in "getting the right shot".

I was very happy with my 300D and I deliberately was very careful in my post to never cross that line. At no point did I ever infer that the 300D can't get top rate images? (otherwise I'd be bashing my own 230 DB images that I took with the 300D!!). IMHO the 300D is the best first ( & most affordable) dSLR on the market and would probably be enough camera for 90% of this community's needs.

I also agree with your post regarding 10D with "L" Glass vs. 20D with poor quality lenses. No dispute there ...

.......just clearing up things...........Shaun
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:35 pm

Thanks, I get the impression that the pro's of the 20D certainly do outway the cons.
And yes i agree with the glass theory too which i guess is why im lucky to own the 100-400 L canon equipment.

so purely because i have L glass would that be a good enough reason to upgrade to a 20D?!

Thanks again for some interesting replies.

Ryan Hemmings
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
vir380
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:45 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:07 pm

What you have to consider is the difference in money !

that to me would be the deciding factor !!
along with :

1: is it worth it ?
2: will those other features on the camera improve my photos ?

thats the 2 main things .

answer those and you have your answer  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

for me an honest answer would be ... no
but we are all different

cheers
Tony

[Edited 2004-12-14 11:08:17]
Moved away from this lost website to better things !
 
Woody001
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:39 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:38 pm

Ryan, I think Tony has summed it up very well - if your finances allow you to upgrade then do so. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Technically if your thinking about shooting smaller/faster jets then you'll benefit from the 20D's faster AF performance and buffer size.

I know the dilemma very well indeed, when the shop called to say they had my 1Dii in stock last year, I had really cold feet - finance wasn't an issue, I just kept wondering if I'd done the right thing. I've not regretted a single day of upgrading from the 10D, when you think your only here once you may as well enjoy it.  Smile

After all, you can always sell it if you don't see a benefit after a few weeks..?

Ian.

If I could just get the afterburner working...
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2733
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:44 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:01 pm

Ryan,

Just a thought, Jessops have a no quibble 10 day exchange policy right? Give it a try and then decide if you want it after. Or you could always rent one from Fixation to test it out.

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
kc7mmi
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:15 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:24 am

Just keep in mind that megapixels isn't everything. Up until yesterday, pro's were shelling out $3000+ for a 4MP camera (Nikon D2H). Now they're shelling out $2000 (price was lowered yesterday) because the new 12.4MP camera (D2X) is coming to town.
-Benjamin
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:13 am

I own and ADORE my 20D, Its fantastic and the extra features I get over a 10D help quite alot...

@benjamin Megapixels might not be everything but a larger RAW image size is and the cropping power on the 20D just blew me away...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: 20D Ready For Pick Up But........

Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:20 am

"@benjamin Megapixels might not be everything but a larger RAW image size is and the cropping power on the 20D just blew me away..."

If you're good enough you don't need to crop the RAW file  Big grin

Staffan

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