elcableguy77
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 pm

Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:53 am

As was well documented in here about 2 weeks or so ago, I took some pictures at ORF, using a Canon PowerShot G1 After going through all the photos, I came down to two that looked as though they'd be suitable for addition to the photo collection. They are my first submissions. Having submitted them today, I know it'll be a day or two at the least before I hear something from the screeners. While I wait, I though I'd see what everyone in here thinks about them.
The two photos are:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/N677BR_GMW.jpg
and
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/N249PS.jpg
Any comments would be welcome.
Thanks!
-Gavin
Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:57 am

is this a serious question? the first one is plain nasty, the 2nd is so dark i can barely see the winglet.

forget them both, better still, delete them from your que and save wasting the screeners time...
 
Psych
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RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:59 am

Hi Gavin,

I am afraid to say that I think the screeners will give both these photos the thumbs down. One of the key issues is the distance of the main subject from the camera and, as a result, the fact that the plane does not fill the frame. This tends to lead to a rejection for 'bad distance' (I think I am correct that this is the criterion used), unless there is some other aspect of the composition that is arresting, such as a striking sunset. I think this is a particular problem with the first photo, where the surroundings do not really add to the image.

You may be able to crop in closer, but you then may have a problem with the quality of the resulting image.

All the best.

Paul
 
Staffan
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RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:59 am

I don't think they will get accepted. First one is too far away and the second is too dark.

Staffan
 
elcableguy77
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:33 am

Wow. Three responses within 20 minutes.
Well, I did ask for honest opinions, and I certainly got them. The US Air Express CRJ, I thought it looked fine on my screen, but then again, I do have my brightness up a bit. After setting the screen to default mode, I saw exactly what you guys saw: It's to friggin' dark.
As for the Independence CRJ, I'll take that criticism, too. I did have a marvelous side-on shot, yet when I downloaded them I noticed I cut about the first foot or so of the nose cone off. Oh, well.
I do appreciate the criticisms. Hearing what you have to say gets me pointed in the right direction and motivate me that much more to take better photos, as I would one day love to have photos on here that make someone go, "Wow."
Thanks again for all the input, and keep it coming.
-Gavin
Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
 
A346Dude
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:16 am

Qantas077,

Try to be a little more constructive. Gavin has asked for help and while you are right that his photos could be much improved, you made your point in a pretty rude way.

Gavin,

It takes a very long time to get great results like the Tim de Groots among us. You have a fairly good camera and I would expect that with practice you will be able to get acceptable results for this site with it.

The main two pointers I have to give are this: fill the frame and shoot in good light. If you fill the frame, you do not have to crop out large areas of sky, decreasing the effective size of your image sensor. And, shoot with the sun at your back, preferably with the side of the aircraft you are photographing as well lit as possible. The best time for this is the afternoon, when the sun is not directly overhead but is not yet too low on the horizon.

Good luck and keep shooting!

A346Dude
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:23 am

Speaking of Tim de Groot I screened one of his pictures this evening, it was such a nice shot. Nothing spectacular in the "normal" sense, but the angle and light were perfect. What a dick Big grin

Gavin, you need to get closer to the action (either thru zoom or just being closer) to be in with a shout. Have a look at some of the shots that the site has of the reg numbers you snapped to get a feel.
 
elcableguy77
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:28 am

I was looking at getting a 1.5 teleconverter for my G1, so I can zoom in closer. Would it be worth the $90 or so to get it?
Again, I do appreciate the encouragement and criticism.
-Gavin
Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
 
User avatar
clickhappy
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 am

I am not familiar with your rig, but you might want to head over to dpreview.com and see if there is a forum for your equipment, if so there will be a ton of advice and technique to be had...
 
A346Dude
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:39 am

Gavin,

I was originally thinking you were using the 5MP G5. Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis, mostly unique shots such as rare aircraft.

So, you will probably eventually want to consider a new camera. Until that time, however, you could consider the teleconverter. It will probably affect image quality negatively, but I wouldn't expect it to be overly significant.

Basically, what I'm saying is if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and you think you will get good use out of it, buy a digital SLR. I would recommend, however, that you learn to master the camera you have now first, and gain a basic understanding of photography including the affect of aperture and ISO speed, among other things.

[Edited 2005-03-03 02:40:17]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
aviatortj
Posts: 1694
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:15 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:21 pm

Hey Gavin,
I have used a Powershot G2 which is closely related to your camera. I first purchased a Tiffen teleconverter (College student budget) for use with it, and then later I purchased the Canon TC-DC-58 teleconverter. If you are unable to get closer to the action, I definitely recommend the Canon glass. The 2x of the Tiffen or similar lenses will infact get you closer, but the quality will be lower and there is also some vignetting with it too.

You have a perfectly capable camera for getting your photos online. In my opinion, it is just a little tougher to get something with top quality. Plus, it will make you a better photographer mastering the camera. Any questions or comments, drop a line and I will do my best to help. Keep shooting.

-TJ
 
Daren3006
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:26 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:48 pm

Qantas077,

I would assume that every photo you have submitted has been accepted. You were never a novice photographer. You must have started out as an expert. Damn...wish I could have done that.

I usually try to keep this kind of comment to myself but I can't believe your post.

Daren
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:06 pm

here we have the idiot patrol, i mean seriously, why would you seriously start a thread about the first photo? christ, just look in the database and that'll tell you that your not even close to heading into the acceptance que. a little bit of common sense goes a long way, the photographer asked for our opinions, why shit around with him?

some of you are probably to gutless to tell him that they are bad shots, i'm not and i don't get every shot accepted, but its not my photos in question here. if the photographer can't tell the first shot is way to far and bad distance and the second to dark then somethings very wrong...

[Edited 2005-03-03 06:12:30]
 
Stealthz
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:40 pm

Gavin

Quoting A346Dude (reply 9):
Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis

This does not really matter.. the 3.3MP point is moot, the largest pictures accepted here are roughly equiv. to a 1.7MP camera and many equiv to a 1MP or smaller. having said that your equipment does limit you a bit.. but that can be a good thing. It forces you to a/get in closer b/concentrate on your technique.
Many of the greatest photos ever taken.. Aviation related or not! were taken with equipment much inferior to the all singing all dancing, multi MP DSLRs and their stabilised autofocus lenses.
The 3.3MP does limit the margin for error in composition but then that also forces you to learn those skills..
Keep trying
Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
NIKV69
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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:42 pm

Gavin,

You will find that this site is very strict and that most of the regular photographers here are professionals. Listen to them. I have and my pictures have gotten better. Your pictures will be rejected and all the reasons you have read here are true. Dark, Object too far away etc. One thing I learned is to buy good equipment, it is costly but there is no other way, ask the pros here and just keep snapping! Go to the airport every chance you get. Go to all Angles and just practice. You better invest in a good tele lens too. At least a 200MM.

Keep snapping!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
willo
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:21 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting Qantas077 (reply 12):
some of you are probably to gutless


Being gutless has nothing to do with it. With an attitude like that you'd be better off keeping your opinions to yourself. The forum is here to help people, regardless of their ability. You would do well to remember that, as you maybe seeking advise here yourself at some point.
 
dendrobatid
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:40 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:54 pm

The first two responses to Gavin's reasonable request for help are models of what not to do and how to help.
Qantas077 response is derisory and unhelpful, that of Psych a perfect, tactful response. If the Qantas response was the only one, I would not expect to see Gavin back.
I find it offensive to be described as being gutless to want to be polite, to not deliberately upset someone. I have judged photographic competitions face to face with the photographers and always tried to find something good to say, even for dreadful photographs.
Evidently Gavin has a long way to go, but, come, on, let's help people not simply put them down..
Willo.... a perfect response
Would Qantas077 have made a response like that face to face ?
I doubt it, but the keyboard makes it easier doesn't it ?
Mick Bajcar
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:05 pm

You may as well ignore responses from individuals like Qantas077. For whatever reason he seems to need to insult. I told Gavin his pictures were poor and would be rejected without insulting him. Why people have to do this is beyond me. Anyway Kenko makes a good TC, it's pricey but worth it.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Flyer732
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:09 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting A346Dude (reply 9):
Since your camera "only" has 3.3MP, while it is probably possible to get shots accepted on here, it will probably be on an infrequent basis, mostly unique shots such as rare aircraft.


Hmm, there are a lot of D30 users on here that get shots accepted on a more than infrequent basis. Myself included.

If you know how to use any camera you can do anything you want.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:38 pm

hey, i'm not the one asking what everyone else thinks, he asked so i told him and why do you want me to pretty up my reply, ask yourself this, if your a screener or a viewer of this site would you find those photos good on the eye? i don't think so, i'm actually suprised the author even started this thread at all, let alone submitted the photos.

simple way to workout what your photos are comparable to is to search the database for the same plane, i doubt you'll see any shots of them in that quality..

he asked, i told him straight out, simple as that...to be perfectly honest i'm suprised they are still in the upload que, i'd have thought the negative comments would've said enough.

[Edited 2005-03-03 10:40:50]
 
LHRSIMON
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 5:59 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:11 pm

Im not even going to comment.... Im just to gutless !!!
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
dendrobatid
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:40 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:12 pm

Qantas077
It ain't what you said......I actually agree with that, sorry Gavin !
Just the way you said it.
Prettying it up is what it's about sometimes.
Just read what Psych wrote. He also said they were not up to scratch but in a way that would upset no-one.
Mick Bajcar
 
Psych
Posts: 2944
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:49 pm

Quoting Qantas077 (reply 19):
he asked, i told him straight out, simple as that...


I'm not sure that's true, Qantas077 - you told him rudely.

I was typing my response to Gavin's question just as I was off to bed, and I had hoped to be the first response. I was a bit sad when I saw that your reply had got in before mine. I don't dispute the points you are making - you are right that we should all be familiar with photos in the database and develop an idea about what the standards for acceptance are. One way for a relative newcomer to do that is to come on to this Forum and ask advice from more experienced photographers. I have sought advice here more than a couple of times and would always want straight feedback, that I could then reflect on. But you don't need to belittle to give honest feedback. I am sure Gavin would not have posted his thread if he thought the photos didn't have a hope.

Even if he had realised that they were not up to standard - as a fellow contributor recently did in a thread asking for advice - I don't see what's wrong with asking for advice and suggestions. I would take it as read that photographers would treat each other respectfully - whatever their standard.

Mick - thanks for that feedback.

Paul
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:57 pm

From my point of view:
1.) Too dark and too far away.
2.) Too dark, too far left and low in the frame, too far away and off angle.

If you try to crop those photo in a way that the plane fills the frame they wont get in either i am afraid because then they will become badquality.
-
 
A346Dude
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:47 pm

Quoting Flyer732 (reply 18):
Hmm, there are a lot of D30 users on here that get shots accepted on a more than infrequent basis. Myself included.

If you know how to use any camera you can do anything you want.


Ryan,

I agree completely, in fact I myself use a D30. And before that I sneaked a few photos taken with my 2MP P&S past the screeners.

The point i was trying to make is that it will be hard to get shots that were taken with a 3MP P&S on this site. Not impossible, just hard.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:56 pm

Gavin

Its very important to have your screen calibrated correctly. This may have helped you initially and able to see the darkness of your shots. If you have Photoshop then go into settings>display and click on Adobe Gamma. That will guide you through the steps to calibrate your monitor. If not you can down load the calibration program on the upload page. I haven't used it, but from what I have read its a good program, I don't think a.net would supply it if it wasn't.

Did you ever manage to throw that laptop into the engine yet  Silly

e-mail me if you need a hand.

Take care

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
elcableguy77
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:08 pm

Fergul:
Not as yet, my friend.  Silly I kinda need it to access this site and such.

Again, I appreciate all the advice and criticisms. Now, all I need is to go and play around a bit with my camera so as to learn how to take better photos. I do strive to better myself in every aspect, including this new-found hobby.

-Gavin
Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: Opinions, Please!

Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:13 am

No Problem Gavin   

The two shots would be done for bad distance, no questions asked. You really need to get the frame filled with as much aircraft as possible, then crop to size, I use 1024x683, a good friend of mine uses 1200x800 but what ever you you use, you want to keep the ratio 3:2, same as your camera. Just remember the bigger the size you use the more the defects become visible and with your camera you'd want to hide them. In other words the more you down size the photo the better the quality will be, generally. You won't see the grain as much etc.

If you need help on some PS tips, do a search in the forum or e-mail me.

Take care and enjoy, this is one addictive hobby, and its great Big grin

Fergul  Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!

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