LHRSIMON
Topic Author
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Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:56 am

Well after having a rejection for Bad Dirty i thought i had better take a look at the state of my sensor. I thought everything should be ok seeing as the camera was only 10 weeks old. And the dirty must have been something on the UV filter .... WRONG !!!!!

Take a look at this test image taken against a white door at 45 over 30 seconds !!!!! Jesus theres more spots than a teenagers face !!!! And a couple of them seem to be the size of a small country.

http://img8.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img8&image=mycrapsensor5ob.jpg

I checked inside the camera and i can even see a couple of the little ba#tards with the naked eye. I tried the good old air brush but they just laughed at me.  Sad

Is this normal to have so much crap on your sensor in such a small amount of time..... Its not like im out in the desert or anything. And the camera must have only been used 20 odd times !!!

I know people are going to say "just clean it" but im VERY nervous to do this seeing the luck im having at the moment. Are there any places i can take it for a quick clean ????

A very pissed off (Sorry for that but im starting to get real annoyed)
Simon C
 Sad
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:27 am

Factory dust. Your luck is nothing to do with it - swab it and continue to enjoy your camera and keep giving us great shots.


Cheers


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
LHRSIMON
Topic Author
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:55 am

Factory dust !!! What do they do manufacture them in a coal mine Big grin

Maybe i am getting a bit paranoid,but it just seems to be on the photography front one thing after another at the moment..

Cheers
Simon C
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:56 am

forget the spots, that is the oddest shade of white I have ever seen.

those sopts seem to be more dirt than dust. from my own experience, dust spots seem to be fuzzy and often look like a light smudge. these spots are pinpoint sharp. please correct me if I am wrong!  dopey 
Slower traffic, keep right
 
Go3Team
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:53 pm

I get all kinds of shapes to mine. I still can't believe people use compressed air to clean the sensor though. To each his own.
Yay Pudding!
 
chris78cpr
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:10 pm

Nothing wrong with compressed air!

It works a treat!

Chris (At Haneda airport right now! Just got the poke jet 744D landing!!!  Silly )
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
Psych
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:25 pm

Simon - did you take that with a very small f-number? When I have done a test image using f-22 stuff still shows up, even immediately after I have cleaned the sensor. A colleague from here suggested to me that maybe it was impractical to hope that everything could be removed - maybe he's right.

All I can say about the cleaning is that I'd be surprised if you could be more nervous than I was about that. I have a history of ....ing things up that I try to mess about with, and I was damned if I was going to do that with my camera. However I became sick on having to do a lot of cloning and, following reassurance here, I took the plunge and ordered Digipads and the Eclipse fluid. It came the next day (from Warehouse Express - very efficient) and, after staring at the package for 3 hours  Wink I took the plunge.

I can vouch for the fact that it is a great deal less stressful than I had feared - plus it does make a difference. You can see the fluid evaporate immediately and the individually packed pads (complete with applicator) definitely are free of any contaminant that may harm the sensor glass.

Not the cheapest thing to do, but almost guaranteed to be cheaper that taking it somewhere to be cleaned (I couldn't find anywhere here in Manchester anyway). The you can check the result. Confident in the knowledge that you can give it a go without fear of doing any kind of damage. So I would encourage you to have a go.

Good luck.

Paul
 
Granite
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:36 pm

Simon

Glad you marked the Blu Tak to us..........or you would have had one BIG problem  Smile

Regards

Gary
 
dendrobatid
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:06 pm

With the lens stopped right down the dust does show up more sharply as I discovered after taking some hangar shots and forgot to change my shutter speed back once outside.
I used a soft plastic pipe fitted to the pipe of my vaccuum cleaner (well my Wife's actually LOL) and cleaned the whole inside of the camera, being very careful to not actually touch the sensor. Not a good idea for too long as the vaccuum cleaner, a Dyson, protested at the much reduced airflow and was also bloody noisy.
Do they usually make some sort of noise ?
I prefer this rather than simply blowing it around the camera only to appear again later.
Don't forget to keep your rear lens cap and body cap spotlessly clean!!!!!!!
Mick Bajcar
 
Staffan
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting Dendrobatid (Reply 8):
Do they usually make some sort of noise ?

Don't know, I'll have to ask.

Staffan
 
lewis
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:51 pm

My DSLR started showing dust spots after 6 weeks of use. I ordered a bottle of eclipse fluid and sensor swabs. After more than 15 months of use I had to clean my camera two times. The swabs do a good job at removing dust and although the solution is a bit pricey, you get 12 swabs that can last you for years! IMO it was a good investment. I got mine from www.crownphoto.co.uk.

Paris
 
mygind66
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:00 am

..

Simon..

I have no idea how the hell you could absorb such amount of microorganisms inside your sensor...Man you have to think where and what have you done when changing lenses. It was a windy and dusty day? How you change lenses?
I normally put the camera down when remove and insert a lens. In one year I had to clean once my sensor. Of course got some dust but Photoshop do the job...

All the best

Enrique
 
andy777
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:45 am

Hi Simon,

I had the same problem with My D70. I used ''canned'' air to get rid of the dust and it seems to be clean for the time being. I had a whole wave of rejections for baddirty and didn't realize what caused the problem.

The thread I started can be found at Rejected Photos Help (by Andy777 Mar 11 2005 in Aviation Photography)

I learnt a lot a from the thread especially about spotting marks on pictures caused by the dust before I upload them.

Rgds

Andy
 
LHRSIMON
Topic Author
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:14 am

Thanks for all the help guys. Answers as follows. Big grin

Quoting Unattendedbag (Reply 3):
forget the spots, that is the oddest shade of white I have ever seen.

those sopts seem to be more dirt than dust. from my own experience, dust spots seem to be fuzzy and often look like a light smudge. these spots are pinpoint sharp. please correct me if I am wrong!

Sorry about the "white". Trust me it is a white door but the light bulb i think is one of those tinted ones and it give a yellow hint..
I think all of them are dust apart from the two big ones. I think these maybe something a bit bigger. The spots do appear fuzzy on f stops below 10. The example is at f/45 !! And hence the sharpness.

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 5):
Nothing wrong with compressed air!

It works a treat!

Cheers Chis , my old man had a compressed air gun so i will give it a blast of that to see if it improves.

Quoting Psych (Reply 6):
Simon - did you take that with a very small f-number? When I have done a test image using f-22 stuff still shows up, even immediately after I have cleaned the sensor. A colleague from here suggested to me that maybe it was impractical to hope that everything could be removed - maybe he's right.

Hi Paul. The test image was on f/45. Most of the spots are removed at about f/15. But there are a about 10 that are still there at f/10. Theres even 2 that show at f/8 which is a real pain !!! With regards cleaning the sensor , after reading your reply i think i will also take the plunge  Smile

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 11):
..

Simon..

I have no idea how the hell you could absorb such amount of microorganisms inside your sensor...Man you have to think where and what have you done when changing lenses. It was a windy and dusty day? How you change lenses?
I normally put the camera down when remove and insert a lens. In one year I had to clean once my sensor. Of course got some dust but Photoshop do the job...

All the best

Enrique

Believe it or not im very carefull when i change lenses. I do not shoot in any dusty conditions and that is why im so surprised it got dirty so quick.

Thanks all
Simon C

PS : Just had a very busy day. Just took 300 photo's at LHR followed by 200 at Booker general aviation field. Then it was off to cover a photo shoot for my Ice hockey team and another 500 photo's... Jeezzz my arms sure do ache as i have been carring a camera from 09.00 until 21.00 !!!!  Smile
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
wietse
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:25 am

Simon, I have a dustproblem myself with my new 20D, whereas I never had a problem with my D60. Must be something related to that camera.



This is my first outing with the 20D, and there are spots everywhere, but with some layer techniques and equalising the image, they are easy to remove. I am planning a cleaning though.

PS. There were some good shots this first outing  Wink:

Wietse de Graaf
 
paulinbna
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:39 am

I had the same problem with my 20D, but after a cleaning it is fine now.
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Wietse (Reply 14):
This is my first outing with the 20D, and there are spots everywhere, but with some layer techniques and equalising the image, they are easy to remove. I am planning a cleaning though.

Hi Wietse..

Care to elaborate  Smile .

I have checked all my Photoshop books and none have these techniques for removing dust spots.... So a workflow for these methods would be very helpfull.

Thanks again
Simon C Big grin
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
wietse
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 16):
Care to elaborate

Ok, I assume that you know about the "equalize" function in Photoshop? If not, it creates an image that looks like the Phantom, the dustpspots are emphasised.

So here is the workflow:

1. Layer -> Duplicate layer
2. Press F7 to bring up the layers window
3. Select the new "Background Copy" layer (just click on the name)
4. Image -> Edit -> Equalise
5. Select the "Background" layer. You will still see the equalised image, but all editing you do are done on the original layer.
6. Select heal tool
7. Heal the dustspots on the image. You will not see the spots disappear, but the do disappear on the original image. Remember which ones you did already. If you healed all dustspots, -> step 8.
8. Right click on the "Background Copy" layer -> Delete Layer
9. You should now have the original image with the spots removed
Wietse de Graaf
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:28 am

Brilliant !!!! Im sure i as well as many others will find this very helpfull .

Top man Wietse Big grin
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:41 am

For those who have Elements 2.0 & 3.0

Equalize can be found here

Filter>Adjustments>Equalize

Thanks Wietse  bigthumbsup 

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 13):
Cheers Chis , my old man had a compressed air gun so i will give it a blast of that to see if it improves.

NO NO not the gun as it will have water in the compressor .
What they meant by canned air is that you can buy a can of compressed air not the compressor
On a wing and a prayer
 
TZ
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:49 am

Wietse's method is identical to my own.

The 20D seem much susceptible to collecting dust spots than the D60 was...

Tamsin
TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
 
LHRSIMON
Topic Author
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:41 am

Don't Panic Jimbojim747 (thanks for the concern) my dads is the proper photo airgun... He uses it for his lenses and slides etc etc

He's a real TOP photographer (fellow of the Royal photographic Society) and has letters after his name and everything. Flash git Big grin

Problem is he does all his work in film so i cannot ponce any help or equipment of him..... If i asked him how to clone dustspots using PS he would look at me like i was mad !!!! Oh well  Smile

Simon C
 Smile
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:07 pm

Well im going to take the plunge.

Can someone confirm. Whats the difference between Sensor Swabs & Digi Pads+fluid. I can't see any apart from the swabs seem to cost alot more.

Also regarding the air gun/tin. Are the any rules as to how close you can go to the sensor. Apart from obviously touching it...... Is 1 cm away from the sensor to close ????

Thanks
Simon C
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
Psych
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 pm

Simon,

Can only comment on the pads - I think the only difference is the cost: I think Digipads are from the UK and the other swabs are from the US.

As I said, I bought mine from Warehouse Express, and the whole thing was ultra efficient.

Go for it - I am sure you, like me, will feel a lot happier about all this when you take the plunge.

Just to stick my oar in (though I don't know this), I would guess that you can get close to the sensor glass so long as the air blast is not enormous and you don't touch anything. Don't forget - it is glass in front of the sensor you're getting close to.

All the best.

Paul
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:00 pm

Thanks Paul.

It was Warehouse Express that i looked at so i will use them.

While were on the subject. There are 2 other pieces of glass inside the camera (i gather the focusing system). One is at a 45 degree angle infront of the sensor and moves when you open the appeture.. And another flat to the side with the crosshairs on them. Should i clean these as well while im doing the open surgery ??? Big grin

Simon C
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:17 pm

Simon

The 45deg infront is your mirror, the crosshairs is your, not sure of the name but it looks like a prism, you can clean that with a light soft brush.

Just clean the sensor, make sure the battery is fully charged as well. You can clean the mirror with a light, soft, small brush but be carefull as you don't want to damage the mechanism.

Good luck

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
Psych
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:12 pm

Simon,

I think Fergul is right there - it sounds like you are talking about the mirror. Easy to check that - it behaves like a mirror  smile . Basically it doesn't matter if this is a bit mucky, as it will only affect the quality of the image you see through the viewfinder. But you can clean that with a good lens cloth if you want (gently).

The other glass sounds like the focusing screen. We were talking about this is another recent thread. One suggestion was not to clean this with solution, in case yours is not glass. My understanding is that they are made with ground glass, which makes them very sensitive to picking up even the tiniest bits of hair/fluff etc from anything you touch it with. I have been known to try to clean this - but I would suggest caution, as it's easy to make it worse. Better to try initially with a blower to see if you can dislodge the muck. But also bear in mind that it doesn't matter if this is mucky either, because, like the mirror, bits and pieces that you can see won't actually show up on the image.

All the best.

Paul
 
GBOAB
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:06 am

Simon

I am sure it has been mentioned in these threads before but you can also get from Warehouse Express the Giotto GAA1900 Rocket Air blower for £7.00
very useful to have in your camera bag

Cheers

Ian
Concorde's gone but not forgotten
 
Staffan
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Psych (Reply 27):
I think Fergul is right there - it sounds like you are talking about the mirror. Easy to check that - it behaves like a mirror . Basically it doesn't matter if this is a bit mucky, as it will only affect the quality of the image you see through the viewfinder. But you can clean that with a good lens cloth if you want (gently).

Be very careful with touching the mirror. In fact, I wouldn't touch it at all. It is semi transparent in places to let light pass through it to the AF sensor behind. what makes it reflective is a thin film of something that scratches very easily.

Staffan
 
LHRSIMON
Topic Author
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:56 am

Hmmmmmmm looks like i will leave this well alone. Better safe than sorry !!!
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
Psych
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting Staffan (Reply 29):
Be very careful with touching the mirror.

I'd certainly take Staffan's advice there. I'm sure he knows more about this.

Paul
 
Staffan
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RE: Look How Dirty My Sensor Is! Is This Normal

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:35 am

For anyone interested, canon shows how it works here:

http://www.canon.com/technology/t_seihin/tech_d35cam.html

Klick on "A look at the basics" for a nice animation showing how the internals of an SLR works.

Staffan

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