Psych
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Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:22 pm

I am somewhat confused here as to what the correct course of action is here - a crew comment would be gratefully received, as well as any other thoughts.

I have just uploaded a photo of TF-AMC - and all-white cargo 747 owned by Air Atlanta Icelandic (well, leased by them anyway, as far as I can see). My understanding of the rules here are clarified by Rule number 4 in the Help section for Airline/Operator:

Quote:
4. Airline aircraft which are untitled will be listed as "Untitled" with the airline name between brackets, like "Untitled (TMA - Trans Mediterranean Airlines)", or "Untitled (America West Express (Mesa Airlines))".

However, I am aware that when uploading we now have to use the Auto Complete function. For this aircraft this comes up with 'Air Atlanta' - not Air Atlanta Icelandic, Untitled (Air Atlanta) etc etc. To make matters more complicated this aircraft was operating for Cathay Pacific Cargo  Smile . There are, in fact, only 2 other photos of this aircraft in the database - both all white.

Am I correct in assuming that now we must go with the Auto Complete? If so, then the previous rule about untitled aircraft needing to be referred to as 'Untitled' is being challenged here. The dilemma is - go with what the Auto Complete comes up with and you appear to be flouting the rules; put what the rules suggest and you are going against the Auto Complete function, which also now is going against the rules.

Any thoughts/comments? (My apologies if I have missed a previous discussion about this issue.)

Paul
 
sulman
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:47 pm

Paul,

I'd approach it two ways. I'd use the autocomplete (which keeps the screening team happy) and I'd also drop the DB editors a line letting them know. I think they've got quite a job on at the moment with cleaning up the variations and duplications and appreciate the help.

Cheers


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
Psych
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:02 am

In the absence of a flood of responses to this thread  confused  I have decided that the best option here is to go with what, to me, is correct according to the upload rules.

As such, despite what the Auto Complete says, I am uploading this all white 747 as "Untitled (Air Atlanta Icelandic)". This is the data I recently used for TF-AME, and that appeared to be acceptable.

I still think this apparent anomaly is worth clarifying, as I know the database editors are hard at work tackling issues for the Auto Complete function. In an attempt to get things right I have emailed the database editors and have also put a note to the screeners explaining the situation. Just now hoping it won't be rejected for some other reason  wink .

But - if I have done the wrong thing always happy to be told  Smile .

Cheers.

Paul
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:18 am

Paul, Hi  wave 

I had the same situation with another aircraft, N727UW - US Airways. This aircraft is no longer with them and there is no drop down menu for Untitled (US Airways). The auto complete only gives you US Airways, but it is clear from the photo that it no longer operates with them. I was told to upload it as Untitled and then to fill in below US Airways.

Hope that helps,

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
Jaspike
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:29 am

Paul, I've just replied to your email.

For the benefit of everyone else, the Auto Complete feature must always be used when you have the registration. Too many people make up their own aircraft/airline versions and enter CNs in the wrong format.

If you think the Auto Complete feature brings up an incorrect entry, please let us know by submitting a correction or sending us an email. Currently, it is possible to edit the info that Auto Complete brings up - if a BY aircraft changed from having the Britannia titles to having the Thomsonfly titles, you'd have to choose the Thomsonfly entry because you could end up with a badinfo rejection. So if you have a problem similar to Paul's, upload with what you think is right (check the rules), and let us know so that we can fix any dodgy entries.  Smile

Tom
 
Psych
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:29 am

Thanks very much to Tom (Jaspike) for providing some further clarification on this matter - "Untitled (Air Atlanta Icelandic)" is correct and this is an example of the Auto Complete still requiring further updating.

Paul

P.S. Tom - we were both posting at the same time.

[Edited 2005-03-29 19:30:39]
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:39 am

Hi Tom

Can I ask what do I do in my case then as N727UW is currently being changed over to Germanwings. Do I write Untitled under US Airways drop down menu or do I select Untitled and then write US Airways in the box below.

Thanks

Fergul Big grin

PS What is the database editors e-mail address? I now its something simple!
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
jfktowerfan
Crew
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:48 am

editors@airliners.net

Damn that is simple  


Corey

[Edited 2005-03-29 19:57:18]
C'mon Man
 
Jaspike
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:57 am

Fergul,
Enter what's on the aircraft - if it says "Germanwings", choose that. If it has no titles, choose "Untitled (Germanwings)".

Try not to mess it up, I standardised all A319 photos a few weeks ago  Silly  Wink

Tom
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:12 am

Tom

Thats the problem, it comes up as US Airways, its still in its colours but with all the logos painted over

Thanks

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
dc10tim
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:23 am

I've just looked in the list of options for Air Atlanta and there are two. "Air Atlanta" and "Air Atlanta Icelandic".

Without wanting to sound sad, I think it should be "Air Atlanta Icelandic" and "Air Atlanta Europe".

The point I'm trying to make is, why should the auto-complete function be always used when the information there isn't always correct. I'm not wanting to sound arsy about this but I think that before being so rigid, the 'standardisation' should be more comprehensive and accurate.

There are other examples I have come across, where multiple aircraft types are given.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
Jaspike
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:32 am

Fergul: the aircraft is in US Airways colours with no titles?

Tim: it's very hard to make the database perfect. Photographers create the options on the upload page, which you have to choose from, and we have to correct.

For there to be less options on the upload page, us editors would have to work even harder, and the screeners would have to reject more for badinfo - which I'm sure people wouldn't be happy with.

We're doing as much as we can to reduce the options - I'm trying to keep almost every UK airline standardised, but with 770,000 photos in the database and some photographers still not using the Auto Complete feature, it isn't going to happen overnight.

Tom

[Edited 2005-03-29 20:32:56]
 
Invader
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:43 am

Fergul,

I'll answer for Tom the question on N727UW:

What you always have to establish first is: does the aircraft carry titles? When an aircraft has no titles, it will always be listed as "Untitled" or something starting with "Untitled". In your case, as the aircraft doesn't seem to have US Airways or Germanwings titles, you would use "Untitled".

Next, for an "Untitled" aircraft, you establish if the aircraft is operated by an airline / charter company or not. If it is a corporate or private aircraft, the titles will be only "Untitled" without adding anything. If the aircraft is airline operated or owned, you add that company between brackets (for the precise details, see the airline Help item). In your case, you have thus to add something following "Untitled".

Untitled aircraft that are in the process of being transferred from one company to another are a bit of a grey area, but in general, when it is still carrying the registration of the previous owner, then use the name of the previous owner. The colour scheme is not so important in this respect. In your case, it is still carrying the reg of US Airways (and its colour scheme), so then it should be listed as "Untitled (US Airways)". If it would have had a German reg, even with the US Airways colour scheme, it should be listed as "Untitled (Germanwings)".

I hope this helps?

Peter Vercruijsse
Chief Database Editor
 
fergulmcc
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:54 am

Peter and Tom

Thankyou for your help, this the aircraft in question, N727UW

I use the auto complete to get all the other info like the construction number, and then just changed US Airways to Untitled in the drop down menu and then in the box below that filled in US Airways. I hope I did right. I also put a note to the screeners.

Thanks again  bigthumbsup 

Fergul Big grin
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
dc10tim
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:05 am

Tom,

I appreciate it's no mean feat. It's just that in some circumstances, when using auto-complete, as with the Air Atlanta example, the correct information isn't present to chose from, but at the same time it is very much frowned upon to input info. of your own accord.

In these instances, would it be acceptable to insert the data manually?

What would the end result of doing this be, other than creating another option in the auto-complete function for uploaders to chose from?

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
Jaspike
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 14):
In these instances, would it be acceptable to insert the data manually?

Paul's case (above) is a good example of where you can add your own data - if the data that the Auto Complete function shows is incorrect for your photo, and the data you want to use is correct, then by all means use your data.

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 14):
What would the end result of doing this be, other than creating another option in the auto-complete function for uploaders to chose from?

The end result would (hopefully) be a correct entry in the database. But if you add a new entry because there are photos with wrong info, please let us know so that we can correct any incorrect options - just submit a correction and in the "comment to editor" field just ask for the aircraft (or airline, CN..) fields to be tidied up.

Tom
 
dc10tim
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:26 am

Ok thanks for clearing that up.  Smile

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:15 am

Almost on topic; in the Airline help it says

4. Airline aircraft which are untitled will be listed as "Untitled" with the airline name between brackets, like "Untitled (TMA - Trans Mediterranean Airlines)", or "Untitled (America West Express (Mesa Airlines))".

How come so many pix are uploaded with airline names even tho they carry none? Should be Untitled, no?  whistleblower 


/JM
 old 
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Invader
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting Jan Mogren (Reply 17):
How come so many pix are uploaded with airline names even tho they carry none?

Because so many photographers do their own thing and don't read the upload help items  grumpy 

Peter Vercruijsse
Chief Database Editor
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: Thoughts Re Database Information And Rules.

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Invader (Reply 18):
Because so many photographers do their own thing and don't read the upload help items

Badinfo rejection?

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition

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