billsville
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:46 pm

Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:43 pm

I'm at a loss....

Why does this site go out of its way to discourage new people?

I recently uploaded a photo I just knew would get rejected for badlevel. The plane was turning on a taxiway that was banked and it appears as though the plane was leaning left. Even though I used the guidelines set out and read all the forum posts here, I lined the photo up using background buildings and walls that I knew were straight up and down. Hey, I was there when I took the photo.

Nope, didn't work. I could tell it was going to get the flick because the whole aim of this process is to discourage and reject even when you use the correct processes.

It's not even worth posting the link here. There seems to be a process of getting the photo rejected, then posting it here and getting it torn apart even further by other screeners backing each other up. This process seems to be repeated over and over in this forum. Anyway it seems to have disappeared from the site. It doesn't appear in my rejected list.

So which 'in' crowd do you have to be in to get something posted here.

Very Very Discouraged.......
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:46 pm

Why the hell would you come in here, bitching, and not show us the photo to check if your arguments are valid or if they are nothing but standard anti screener bullshit?
Wietse de Graaf
 
wietse
Posts: 3630
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:49 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:52 pm

/angry hat off

Chill, give it a break, if you wan the pic online, make it conform the screening regulations. The screeners don't know if it is level or not, they haven't been there...

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:07 pm

Billsville,

Did you advise the screener(s) of your thinking using the 'comment to screeners' box? I've had a few pictures where correct look strange, and the easiest thing to do is tell the screener exactly what you were thinking, and then they can make their own mind up.

Post the image here so it can be seen and we can help you with it.


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:09 pm

Hey, cool down.

Show us the pic, if you are right, and I have seen enough of your work to think that is likely, you will get a lot of support from the community.
We all have beefs with screeners sometimes.. that is part of A.net!!  white 

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
billsville
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:46 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:26 pm

I can't show you the pic because it has disappeared from my rejected photos list. No thumbnail, no small or large pictures to show. Can't show what isn't there.
 
CallMeCapt
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:52 pm

You don't have the edited photo saved on your hard drive?
Without struggle, there is no progress. (Frederick Douglass)
 
CallMeCapt
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:57 pm

If you have the edited pic saved on your hard drive, ask someone here if they have server space so you can send it to them and they upload it with a link to it on here.
Without struggle, there is no progress. (Frederick Douglass)
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:31 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
Why does this site go out of its way to discourage new people?

Check this page http://www.airliners.net/search/ theres a list of new photographers. So you can make the cut.

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
It's not even worth posting the link here.

But it's worth to come here and cry? This time could have been used more productive by posting the photo and asking for advice like described in the rejection mail you got.

[Edited 2005-04-26 10:04:51]
-
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting CallMeCapt (Reply 7):
ask someone here if they have server space so you can send it to them and they upload it with a link to it on here.

Hi, If you have no way of hosting it, I do, happy to do this if you wish, email is in profile

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:19 pm

As James says, I have in the past added comments to the screeners about some tricky situations just to give them some idea of how the place looks and I think they have used them in their screening.

I can show one such photo which is now in the db.

Best regards.
 
billsville
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:46 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 9):

I will take you up on that when I get back to my main computer.

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 8):
Check this page http://www.airliners.net/search/ theres a list of new photographers. So you can make the cut.

I bet they've been rejected upteen million times before getting one photo up.

[Edited 2005-04-26 10:25:32]
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:35 pm

No worries buddy,
Happy to help out!!

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting Billsville (Reply 11):
I bet they've been rejected upteen million times before getting one photo up.

Everybody's been there.
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
CallMeCapt
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:38 pm

Billsville
I am one of the new photographers added to the database.
I started uploading about 2-3 months ago and I have had about 25 rejections. All but 1 was bad quality. the 1 was bad level. My first one was pathetic compared to what I am processing now. We've all been there before but with practise, you will get a photo up. Processing photos takes a lot of patience. Even the best photographers here still get rejections.
Without struggle, there is no progress. (Frederick Douglass)
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting CallMeCapt (Reply 14):
Even the best photographers here still get rejections.

No we don't.... Oh just kidding!! I get my share!! +++

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
JAT74L
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:37 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:58 pm

For the 249 shots I have on this db I have had at LEAST this amount (and probably more) rejected.

Am I now a better photogrpher 12 months down the line because I strive to achieve the high standards set here?

YES!

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting Jat74l (Reply 16):
Am I now a better photogrpher

But spelling is still a challenge!!
Seriously, the main reason I joined A.net was to improve my photography and whilst I only have 11 images on the db and (he says a little smugly) only 16 rejections, my photography has improved and my processing has improved many orders of magnitude.
For that I will always be in debt to A.net, not only the screeners but also the photog community that have helped!

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:20 pm

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
Why does this site go out of its way to discourage new people?

It doesn't. Through this forum, it goes out of its way to help photographers reach the standard that the site requires.

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
So which 'in' crowd do you have to be in to get something posted here.

You have to be in with the crowd that's prepared to learn and develop their technique...

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
Nope, didn't work. I could tell it was going to get the flick because the whole aim of this process is to discourage and reject even when you use the correct processes. It's not even worth posting the link here.

...rather than the crowd that bitches and moans, always believes they're right, and won't accept the help and support of others that's actually quite freely available here.

Andy

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:40 pm

Billsville   

Send me an e-mail and I will forward you a copy of my workflow for Elements 2.0 & 3.0 it may help you a bit.
One or two photographers in this thread have used it and it's been of some benefit to them.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 17):
But spelling is still a challenge

You too Chris??!!

Fergul  

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 20):
a.net Isn't the be all and end all of photography.

Exactly! Join a camera club and then you will really broaden your horizons!

[Edited 2005-04-26 11:46:00]
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
Very Very Discouraged.......

not to have a dig or anything, but why? a.net Isn't the be all and end all of photography. Teaches you what makes a good photo under the photography rules. Get it all in frame, get it level, take it from a nice angle. But really, take the photo for yourself not for other people.

If it wasn't for a.net I would still have a point and shoot, its an inspiring site. For a while when I got a decent camera and I was at the airport or a pad I would think to myself, right, what do I need to do to get a photo accepted here [a.net]

my mate at the airport who's been with a.net since the start and takes brilliant images showed me though what he had taken one day, I was amazed how many just wouldn't fit into any category here, he took them for himself because they were interesting Angles and artistic. so obviously he has the right idea. Now thanks to him I take photos for myself.

Get them printed, put them in an album. If during the course you take a photo that fits into the a.net categories then great upload it. If it gets rejected so what uve still got a great photo that you have taken yourself. If you take a photo for a.net and it gets rejected it sucks you feel like what's the point, if you take a photo for yourself and it gets rejected you still have the satisfaction of knowing its something you wanted. It`ll get very old very fast if when you go out to the airport your only taking pictures for a.net

ill stop my dithering now

Gary S
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
CallMeCapt
Posts: 478
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:48 pm

I might add something else to the mix. There has been a thread here, forgot where, from an anetter who said unless you know your camera inside out and unless you know your photo processing program inside out 4 times over, you have a slim chance of getting a photo accepted here. Know your hardware and software and you will get a photo up.
Without struggle, there is no progress. (Frederick Douglass)
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:07 pm

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 20):
Get them printed, put them in an album. If during the course you take a photo that fits into the a.net categories then great upload it.

Absolutely, since Dec 04 when I got serious about this(again!!) I have pressed the shutter button approx. 9000 times, I have placed 72 images on my pbase gallery and uploaded 40 pics to A.net of these 11 are in db, 16 rejected and 3 are still screening.
Am I happy, hell yeah.. I have lots of fun and have a whole bunch of pics I like that won't get seen here because they don't fit.
Do I get frustrated by screeners.. hell yeah.. but "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"

Message is ... enjoy what you do, if what you like gets shown here that is a bonus!!

Regards

Chris

PS .... Fergul... wat is rong wth my spaling?
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 22):
Message is ... enjoy what you do

Hear hear

Bill there are a lot of people here willing to help. Cheer up mate and lets have a go at your shot for you.

Take care

Fergul 

Kris, your speling is fine, I think?! How you keeping mate!!  

Edit: A.net does not discourage photography, their standards are high and that comes with popularity, you only accept the best. Secondly This is a database for aircraft!

[Edited 2005-04-26 12:17:06]
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:46 pm

Why do people continue to think there is a conspiracy here? If your photo is good it gets accepted. If your photo is bad it gets rejected. Can't get much easier than that. Not to mention you have many very good opinions here if you want them. So post the pic, ask questions and keep snapping. If you work hard your pics will get accepted! Big grin
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:59 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 22):
PS .... Fergul... wat is rong wth my spaling?

Hey Chris i dont know about your spelling because eim a shocker it it also but your maths is a bit out.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 22):
40 pics to A.net of these 11 are in db, 16 rejected and 3 are still screening.

You have 10 phtos missing by that calculation.
Haha sorry to do it to you Chris i couldn't help myself .
Hey its moments like these that make it worth while .
Cheers
On a wing and a prayer
 
senorcarnival
Posts: 1732
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:02 pm

If you're simply looking to forego quality, go over to myaviation.net, just so you have somewhere to post your work (or get a PBase/photobucket/etc account) and then start trying to go for the major leagues (premiership, serie A, whatever is the top flight league in your favorite sport Big grin) of a.net...
With so many rejection threads on this forum, and not a single one with a rude comment like, 'oh you idiot, why are you trying to post this crappy-ass shot?' do you really think anyone is conspiring to keep anyone down? Just keep trying and stop crying! That should be every rejectee's motto.
Oh no, she's getting impatient! Take a stab at it!
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:13 pm

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
I could tell it was going to get the flick because the whole aim of this process is to discourage and reject even when you use the correct processes.

Billsville
With all due respect i have to disagree with you.
All you have to do is read some threads in here and you see the imput that the screeners themselves provide to people asking for help.
I wont mention the names of the screeners as they do what they can with the spare time they have away from screening shots to help out in the forums.
Billsville
This is not an attack on you as we all love to help you with any issues you have
Its just doesn't seem fair to make a statement like that towards the site or the screeners because at the end of the day you and everyone else submitting pictures is what's keeping them in the business.
Cheers
On a wing and a prayer
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:26 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 25):
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 22):
40 pics to A.net of these 11 are in db, 16 rejected and 3 are still screening.

And 10 are in my dreams...  Wink
I said my spelling was OK..not my arifmatik!!!!

regards

Stallfzed
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:35 pm

Hey Chris dont mind if i say you are a great man.
With a great sense of humor also .
See you at the mound soon
On a wing and a prayer
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:38 pm

Are you Aussie's still awake over and down there?

Thought it would be long past your bed time.  zzz 

Fergul Big grin  bouncy 
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
billsville
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:46 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:17 pm

Stealthz,

I can't attach to an email from this sight...

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 18):
..rather than the crowd that bitches and moans, always believes they're right, and won't accept the help and support of others that's actually quite freely available here.

Its discouraging because the whole process is inherently flawed. Its flawed because you just have to browse the DB and see the WIDE range of differing quality photos. You look for a reference but there isn't one. You look for a definitive, you get fuzz. All I ask for is consistency where there is none.
 
dc10tim
Posts: 1380
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:21 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:26 pm

Quoting Billsville (Reply 31):
Its flawed because you just have to browse the DB and see the WIDE range of differing quality photos. You look for a reference but there isn't one.

Look for photos that are similar to the one you are uploading, a recent shot of the same aircraft or one of a similar angle of a plane from the same airline etc.
At the end of the day though, it really depends on what you're happy with.

Don't get too discouraged. When I started uploading some of my Dad's old slides last year I was beginning to think they got rejected on principle, but when I started taking an interest in photography myself, I got my first shot in the DB at the second attempt.

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Jat74l (Reply 16):
Am I now a better photogrpher 12 months down the line because I strive to achieve the high standards set here?

Probably not, you have become a bit(or a lot) more familiar with PS or equivalent.
Because let's face it guys, to meet the current standards we are not talking about photography anymore but about editing your material.
Infect many technical failures but well edited images(one made it to the frontpage recently) are in the DB and technical good but poorly edited images are left out of the DB(we have all seen them pass in threads like these).
I am not judging right from wrong(it's not my business anyway) so please don't understand me incorrect, I am not bashing but just looking for a good moderated discussion.  goodvibes 

Then there is that other thingy discussed several times: The rejection email
Is there really someone who thinks that an email with (too)many possible options is helpful to a new guy(male or female) ?.
I bet the regulars don't even bother to read them anymore cos they don't give a clue anyway.  confused 

Now I am not trying to defend the Thread starters behavior but bashing back, although understandable..... if done by screeners, doesn't help much either.
After all I think we all do understand the frustration as it is an experience very common to most of us.  old 

Amen  pray 

Willem who feels very  relieved  at the moment. Big grin
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting Billsville (Reply 11):

I bet they've been rejected upteen million times before getting one photo up.

Exactly. It took me a year.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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airkas1
Crew
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RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 33):
I bet the regulars don't even bother to read them anymore cos they don't give a clue anyway.

I just read the first sentence... Most of the time that's sufficient:D
Airliners.net Crew - Photo Screener
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting Billsville (Reply 31):
Its flawed because you just have to browse the DB and see the WIDE range of differing quality photos

We have a very consistant set of standards. Yes, if you want to look back to what was uploaded two or three years ago, the standards then were no where near what they are now. Yes, if the subject is very rare we occasionally make allowances as the site strives to ensure such subjects make it onto the database even if they are a little below the normal standard. Yes, if you look at a photo taken in the '60s, '70s or even before then they too are likely to be inferior to what we expect for current subjects, but we make allowances for the fact that cameras, lenses and film weren't then what they are now. (FWIW these guidelines have been clearly stated here in the past, so if you choose compare your current work to photos that fall into the categories I've just mentioned, then that's your problem).

But, if you look at CURRENT run of the mill subjects, pictures taken recently, then you'll find a very high level of consistency and yes, a high standard. If you choose to submit pictures of common subjects taken recently, those are the targets you have to aim for - no "in" crowd, no special treatment, everyone has to deal with the same. And if you care to post examples of your rejections here, then a whole bunch of photographers will try to help, including some of the screeners when they have a few moments free from actually screening.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Kukkudrill
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 33):
many technical failures but well edited images(one made it to the frontpage recently) are in the DB and technical good but poorly edited images are left out of the DB(we have all seen them pass in threads like these).

Personally speaking, I've learnt a lot about editing photos on PC but I feel that in my own modest way I have also improved as a photographer thanks to a.net. But I'm curious to know what you understand by "technically good" photos as distinct from well-edited ones. Perhaps I can learn some more.

Charles
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
European
Posts: 1495
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:01 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:57 am

Hi

I have had plenty of photo's rejected...

I don't go posting a new forum topic each time I have one rejected, I will just keep trying when I get a photo I like and I think is good.

Keep trying and chill dude....And hey,show us the pic.

Jimmi
Come on Ryanair! Come on BOH! BASE BASE BASE! Flying high in the skies...........
 
Wanderer
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:47 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:05 am

I had a couple, which looked good, rejected, a couple of weeks ago, *Shrug*. It just makes me want to improve and is that such a bad thing? I don't think so...
 
mygind66
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:31 am

..

Have you tried to be self screener? Sometimes ( many...) you see people uploading rejected photos with a 'problem' like Badquality or Badlevel for instance and you try to guess what's wrong with it. Then you wait a few minutes for a screener opinion because you have no idea what to say!!...Then you realize they where right for rejecting the pic and think how difficult is screening a picture...

All my support to the screeners..( who rejected my last 2 photos Big grin )

Enrique
 
Fly747
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:03 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:47 am

It took me a while to get my first photo accepted as well. When I first uploaded, I thought the photo was of a pretty good quality, but got rejected. And this happened I can't even keep count how many times. I'm pretty new to aviation photography. I don't have very many photos in the db but I can tell you that getting my pictures rejected so many times I have improved. I support the screeners as well, they're doing a good job.
Keep your head up.

Regards
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Kukkudrill (Reply 37):
Personally speaking, I've learnt a lot about editing photos on PC but I feel that in my own modest way I have also improved as a photographer thanks to a.net. But I'm curious to know what you understand by "technically good" photos as distinct from well-edited ones.

Of course Charles that's quite possible as I don't know your background, guess I was talking for myself.
I mean when you are walking around with a camera for over 30 years and studied some photography here and there A.net is probably not going to change they way you work anymore.
They sure pushed me to a higher level of PS for which I am grateful.

Now the technical aspect of photography but understand I am not going to plug the in my eyes technical failures, you have to find them yourself which will be quite easy I can promise you.
I will plug some examples of the "right stuff" though.

- Flightdeck shots with complete white windows through which you can't look outside are from a photographic view point a technical failure.
The way to do it properly with and without flash(just examples):

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wietse de Graaf - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP


As you can clearly see Wietse used a flash light but he learned how to use it properly, the windows don't turn all white but stay as they should transparent.
Peter used a longer exposure(probably with tripod) and without a flash.
Both ways are good but have to be practiced a lot which is why I don't consider the "white windows" to be high standard, anybody can barge into the cockpit and FLASHHHHH a shot in there.

- Inflight stationary props.
Is a technical failure because as we all know(I hope) the Aircraft in question would fall from the sky.
The proper way:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim de Groot - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Brantjes


Both Tim and Eduard showing the way it should be done by using a longer exposure time, much harder(for sure with a long lens) to do and has to be practiced a lot.
Anybody can put a digital cam on "auto" and push the button for another 1/2000s shot but it has nothing to do with "high standard" photography.

I can go on moaning like this for some time to come but I won't.
My point: Right now we are only talking about "PS" high standards when do we start to talk about "photography" high standards.
After all that is what comes first....... way before any PS is needed ?

I hope this answered some of your questions Charles.  checkeredflag 
Now let the discussion begin.  stirthepot 

Have fun all,
Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:32 am

Guys, what's happening here? 42 replies and MOST of them are defending the screeners!!! Something fishy is going on!

Seriously, I've been a "regular" for almost two years now, and the "need" to keep up to the standards of A.net has helped me learn more about photography than the previous 10 years. I've read this forum, posted my share of Help me!! threads, gotten plenty of rejections, and, most important, I've taken thousands of pics. Most of them are crap (we all must thank digital, mustn't we?), but you can definitely see I am improving little by little... For all this I am thankful to the A.net community, those dammed screeners included

So decide if you wanna join us or not; if you (hopefully) do, you'll need to comply to certain rules, but with effort and time you'll succeed; just do not take it too seriously. If you do not, it might be a pity, but we'll never know.

And show us the pic, so we can help.

Willem, I fully agree with your views, but the fact is this a database, not a photography web, according to Johan's own desire. I try to make what you call "good photography", I guess it is easier to go for the standard 1/2000 th shot, and surely you get less rejections  Sad ...but I'll keep trying nevertheless. And to be fair there are lots of good photographs that made the cut!

j

P.S: Sorry for the length of my post.

[Edited 2005-04-26 20:38:50]
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting Javibi (Reply 43):
Willem, I fully agree with your views, but the fact is this a database, not a photography web, according to Johan's own desire. I try to make what you call "good photography",

Oh... it is you from the "bad dark" images hehe Big grin
Man there are the most amazing images in the DB, it was you who brought one of the latest to our attention.
My post was not intended against the rules here and for sure not against the screeners, I know what it takes to be a volunteer.
There is just that one little question in my mind: how can you claim high standards if the basics of photography are not ?
Which is why I am trying to get something of a discussion going.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
USAir_757
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Billsville (Thread starter):
Why does this site go out of its way to discourage new people?

Calm down.

At first you'll think they're out to get you. I did at one point.

4 years later and I am now not only a better aviation photographer, I'm a better photographer period. Why? Because of the requirements here - they made me anal about little details and composition, and as a result, I now take much better pictures than I did 4 years ago. Trust me. Once you do (and you will) get shots accepted here, a few years later you'll look back upon those first ones while muttering, "damn, I can't believe I uploaded that...and I can't believe they accepted it."

Don't let it get to you. email me and I'll be glad to offer any tips I can give you. You might think they're discouraging photography right now, but you'll realize soon enough that they're really encouraging it. Go over to http://www.myaviation.net and upload some photos there (no rejections at that site) so we can help you out.

[Edited 2005-04-26 21:35:01]

[Edited 2005-04-26 21:37:58]
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Kukkudrill
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 42):
I hope this answered some of your questions Charles.

Thanks Willem, yes you did. I'm not sure a.net should begin rejecting photos for the reasons you mention (let's see -- "badstationary" for props?), but I agree they are important quality issues in aviation photography.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:52 am

Willem,

As you are one of the respected photographers on here, I'm a little surprised that you think all this place does is teach most of us how to work PS. The editing skill that you can learn from rejections, this forum, and simple experience is not optional polish for a DSLR owner; it's an absolute necessity, as there isn't some lab that you send your card to and get a nice set of prints back a few days later.

The actual shot is still the most important part of the process, and I felt my technique improved a great deal based on what I learnt here. I still consider most of my shots straightforward 'record' shots, although I'm getting more ambitious with what I want to achieve. However, as with most of the shots you mention, it isn't easy.


James

[Edited 2005-04-26 21:54:27]
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
Guest

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 8):
But it's worth to come here and cry? This time could have been used more productive by posting the photo and asking for advice like described in the rejection mail you got.

Peter, with that one comment you just confirmed everything he said...

"There seems to be a process of getting the photo rejected, then posting it here and getting it torn apart even further by other screeners backing each other up. This process seems to be repeated over and over in this forum."

Could you stop and think for one second that maybe he has a point? Seriously, how many years, and how many people is it gonna take for some of you guys, and Johan, to realize that MAYBE, just MAYBE there is a problem with the system? Do you ever wonder why these posts keep occurring? Of course not, because you, some other screeners, and Johan have this "it's not us it the rest of the world" attitude. I'll never understand why you aren't open to taking a hard look at the standards and consistency of this site.

One suggestion would be, when a photo is going to be rejected, reject it for every reason you can, the first time. Way too often a photo is rejected for soft, corrected, then rejected for another reason, corrected, and so on, and so on. That type of thing is exactly what leads to posts like this. It's not gonna stop (and has never in the 7 or so years I've been visiting this site) unless you are willing to change from within.

Before you reply, stop and ask yourself why these posts keep happening.

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 20):
Teaches you what makes a good photo under the photography rules.

Gary, I respect the hell out of you, but I have serious issue with that. All this site does is teach you how Johan thinks photos should be. There's sooo much more to photography, both aviation and non av, then the overwhelming restrictions this site has in place.

I agree with you on the rest. People care waaaaay too much about this site. Some of these folks need to get back to taking pictures and having fun.

Brian - SPOT THIS!
(And yes, it's SPOT THIS!...not Spot This!)
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Why Does This Site Discourage Photography?

Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:22 am

Well, what a palaver eh? Billsville, believe me you are not alone thinking all screeners are evil bastards out to stifle natural photography. Some of them wouldnt know an artistic pic if it bit their arse.

However, thats just the sad, much rejected mortal in me speaking. The super efficient clever dick in the #2 seat says dont be a plonker. This is a database for high quality aircraft photographs. Many of them are sold and syndicated around the world, so artistic is out. The standards are set (even if sometimes you wonder if they are singing off the same hymn sheet!) and set bloody high for a reason.

Just scream at the PC a lot, learn how to use your kit, take pictures YOU like (sod anyone else) and use the advice and guidelines on A.net to improve and develope your own style and standards. Believe me it will soon start to rise (your standards you mucky minded perverts!).

Go and have a beer or three, sit back, and don't worry about the first 500 rejections. Like sperm, one of the buggers will get through and then you hit a whole new lifestyle!

Above all, enjoy your photography. Thats why you spend all those £'s & $'s - to have fun and enjoy. Do it.

Cheers all, highly entertaining thread this

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional

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