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Fiveholer
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Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 12:43 am

I was sort of blown away by this rejection I got this morning. This shot got rejected for baddouble. I DO have another approach shot taken from the same aircraft on the same day. That shot was taken approaching Tulsa International, this one that was rejected was approaching Richard L. Jones airport. I don't get it. Is there no way to get this shot in besides appealing? I'm usually pretty satisfied with my rejections but this one doesn't make sense to me.

Here is the shot of the approach to TUL:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Danny Fritsche



And here is the rejected shot:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...jections/big/N6105VRVSApp43005.jpg

Danny
Bring back Bethune!
 
cxsjr
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 12:58 am

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a baddouble rejection?

I've had a few rejections myself but never for that reason.
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
Psych
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 12:58 am

Danny,

That must be frustrating for you. My understanding would be that there should be no reason for a baddouble rejection unless the approach was the same - which clearly it is not.

So long as you have not got another shot in the queue of the same approach as the one rejected I wonder whether this is simply a mistake. Unless someone comes up here with some other view/information I would be tempted to appeal the shot, adding an explanation about the rejection. I think that once it has been rejected the only way to take the issue forward is to appeal.

Good luck with that.

Paul
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 1:07 am

I have this other shot taken from the same plane of the SAME airport (KRVS) taken on the downwind leg. I uploaded that as an overview. It was rejected for badinfo, which I saw my mistake and have already re-uploaded. That was an overview and this is not it my opinion. I will include a link to that shot as well. Maybe it was a mistake and I could appeal and get it through. I would like a screener comment before I put it through the appeal process. Here is the overview rejected for badinfo. Thanks for the feedback guys.

Danny

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/RVSOverview43005.jpg

(Yes, the horizon on that overview bugs me, but the skyscraper in the distance lines up.  Smile)

[Edited 2005-05-07 18:08:48]
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cxsjr
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 1:14 am

Hello? My post not worthy of a reply?  grumpy 
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
747 4-ever
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 1:25 am

Cxsjr:
From http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/rejection_reasons.txt

BADDOUBLE
These photos have already been added to the database or you have
uploaded other photos that look very much like these. Please read more
on this issue in the Upload-FAQ.

Note: You could also get rejection message if there are photos very similar
to these that have passed the first screening and are waiting for the
second, final, screening. Also, generally if you submit a number shots of
an aircraft taken at the same time, only the best 1 or 2 will be selected
and rest may have been rejected as doubles. You can better control
which ones we accept by only uploading the 1 or 2 best shots from a
sequence of photographs of the same aircraft.

Please check the database carefully for already existing photos of this aircraft
before uploading new photos and retain from reuploading photos which where rejected
with baddouble. Continous reuploading might result in a temporary ban from the site.
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 10:12 pm

Update...I appealed the rejected approach shot last night and explained that sure, it was the same plane, same day, but it was a different airport, different approach. Well....that didn't work...shot down again. Just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well I guess...time to move on.  Sad

Danny
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Airplanepics
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 10:53 pm

Just out of interest, what happened here?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Derek Hellmann



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Derek Hellmann



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Derek Hellmann



I know that it might be a rare plane...but 3 shots all pictured at the same airport, all picturing the same plane on the same day....?

Not having a dig, just curious to see what happened.

Simon
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
Karlok
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
Just out of interest, what happened here?

Photo dated 1995 is the trick.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting Karlok (Reply 8):
Photo dated 1995 is the trick.

Yes, but 3 photos?! The first 2 are almost identical!
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 11:05 pm

I'm aware standards have changed since then. You can still get shots like that in though...have a look at LAX pics for 1/22/05. Specifically, F-GEXA http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...uary%2022,%202005®search=F-GEXA I just don't see how it plays as baddouble in my case, a shot depicting approaches to 2 different airports. I'm glad everyone else understands.

Danny

[Edited 2005-05-08 16:08:21]

[Edited 2005-05-08 16:14:50]

[Edited 2005-05-08 16:15:06]
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wietse
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 10):
Specifically, F-GEXA http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...uary%2022,%202005®search=F-GEXA

Not Baddouble! Baddouble only applies to photos submitted by the same photographer.

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Staffan
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Sun May 08, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting Karlok (Reply 8):
Photo dated 1995 is the trick

But uploaded April 30 2005.

Staffan
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Wietse (Reply 11):
Not Baddouble! Baddouble only applies to photos submitted by the same photographer.

I'm aware of that as well...I guess I snuck in 2 shots of F-GEXA's t/o at LAX in the database then.  Wink

Danny
Bring back Bethune!
 
law4fun
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 4:34 am

Does a screener care to comment or is there some double secret underlying reason for rejection that the rest of us cannot know?
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Sukhoi
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 7:17 am

Nice screening on the SXM 727 shots  yes 

I just had a baddouble rejection, even appealed and rejected from this
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...s/big/APPEAL_F-WWTO-260405-TLS.jpg and this is the shot already added
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Dopson - AirTeamImages



I thought they were sufficiently different and I am allowed to "upload my best 1 or 2" from a sequence...Guess I should have uploaded a sequence of the A380 where it appears you can get away with 3 take off shots  banghead  I see why you uploaders get annoyed with the screening process  Wink
 
gkirk
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 8:16 am

Sukhoi, I thought you were a screener?  Confused
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N178UA
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 10:50 am

Hi Paul

Thanks for showing your rejection. I think the 2 Thai 345 takeoff shot of yours differentiate from each other well enough. I would give it ok on them if I am screening. I was thinking to upload something like that too, now seeing yours rejected I may have to re-assess the situation. It is all about how individual screener taking on this baddouble issue.

Beautiful shots by the way!

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 1:22 pm

As with all rejection reasons, a rule is applied differently depending upon the image itself. But I'll break the rule down as simply as I can for the purposes of an explanation.

Basic Rule:
* Best 1 or 2 shots accepted from the same photographer, same registration, same day

Must take into consideration:
* Rare or common - If it's common, it's likely only the best single shot will be accepted, but also impacted by other considerations
* Quality - If quality if good (not excellent), it's likely only best single shot will be accepted - once again, other considerations taken into account
* Special event/Newsworthy? - If it's a special event, once-off or generally something that is newsworthy (like an accident or even the first A380 take off), the rule might even be extended to cover 3 shots.
* Angle: Best 1 or 2 really means that the angles or shots must be significantly different. So a close up on a nose and a wide angle might be okay, or a shot from front 3/4 and back 3/4 on same take off, might be okay - but once again, other considerations must be taken into context.

If you want to avoid bad doubles, I would recommend questioning motivation behind uploading 2 of the same reg, same movement, same day. Why would you bother uploading two of the same thing?
Accident? Rare? Newsworthy? Special visitor? - Maybe these would be reasons for uploading two. But honestly, why would anyone be uploading two shots of a common, everyday airliners???

If you're doing this, and your shots are not absolutely perfect, then expect a bad double. In the process if you're uploading 3, 4, 5 or even more of the same thing (I've seen as many as 12 of the same thing), then the only thing you're going to be doing is wasting screener time and extending the queue screening time.

Worth noting though, that the screeners will generally try to make comments on doubles, trying to accept the best shot of those uploaded by photographers (i.e. If you upload 5, and they're good enough to accept.... we'll try to choose the best).
But really, you as a photographer should be choosing the best with your own opinions.

Glenn Stewart
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 18):
Basic Rule:
* Best 1 or 2 shots accepted from the same photographer, same registration, same day

Must take into consideration:
* Rare or common - If it's common, it's likely only the best single shot will be accepted, but also impacted by other considerations
* Quality - If quality if goo

So what happened with the 3 727's at SXM? Might be rare.....but it's not THAT rare!
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
fl350
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 4:40 pm

And what about Danny's approach pic, I thought different airport was not considered as baddouble?
Fabrice Sanchez - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
JAT74L
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 5:11 pm

I had a similar situation with a baddouble pair at SXM. When that was picked up here in the forum, one of them was immediately removed. I don't see this happening to anyone else.

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 8:20 pm

To illustrate the point here are two shots of a "rare" NCA 747 shot the same day:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yuxiaobin



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yuxiaobin


Now those two are as different as my two, which is what Sam seems to think applies to mine and which is what I understood the Screeners could accept.

Gkirk, taking too many pictures to have enough time to screen along with some issues so I have retired....

Cheers

Paul
 
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 9:35 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 19):
So what happened with the 3 727's at SXM? Might be rare.....but it's not THAT rare!

Well, in my opinion.... 2 would have been enough.
But, for calculations and easy explanation.

How many shots of this aircraft existed in the database prior to these shots?
None

How many chances are there to take photos on this aircraft in future?
None

Is there aircraft rare or common?
Rare

Are the shots of acceptable quality?
Yes

Is this enough to allow two shots?
In this example, a definant yes

Well, I think the case is closed on the 727.

Not sure if it is the case, but looking at the evidence.... it is possible that 2 were in the final queue of one screener and the other was in the queue of another screener.

Screener X accepted 2 of the same reg..... at the same time, screener Y accepted the third shot.

This is rare, but it is possible for the system to allow something like this.
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
law4fun
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 9:43 pm

STILL no exlplanation about Danny's approach shots into different airports...Does any screener know what is going on there?!?!?!?!?
Canon Shutter Slut
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 9:44 pm

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 22):
Now those two are as different as my two, which is what Sam seems to think applies to mine and which is what I understood the Screeners could accept.

As I stated above.... you must take everything into account.
And to put the icing on the cake, you have to also realise that behind the rules, behind the recommendations, behind the rejection reasons.... are a bunch of volunteers who live for aviation.... and furthermore, they're completely, 100% human.

If the site were being run by about 40 identical twins, then you'd have reason to complain. But it's not, and we'll always try as hard as we can to be consistent.

If you feel you've been hard done by, then try to read between the lines and you'll come to realise why your doubles may or may not have been accepted.

Taking off my screener hat, I'd like to hope that most aviation photographers would see that there's very little point to uploading common doubles. Give me some variety, please.......

Thanks,

Glenn Stewart
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm

Hmmmm....why is MY shot that started THIS thread being ignored? Other examples have been brought into the thread I created and those shots have had explanations given. Mine seems to have been avoided. Yeah, I may have a few shots of taken from the same plane on the same day. My case is, every shot is depicting something different. It's not like the landing sequence at SXM or the hot topic of the Thai A345. It's different approaches, different airports. It's not like I get to go flying every week in a private plane. It's a pretty unique opportunity for me, and I thought I had some worthy shots. I would just like some explanation since my rejected baddouble was not like the others I uploaded from said day. (April 30th) Thanks.

Danny
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law4fun
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 1:52 am

Danny,
I guess approach shots from RVS or TUL are not as juicy as multiple Thai A345 or Maho Beach approach shots. I, for one, thought your approach shot to RVS was a nice addition. Someone needs to check to see that RVS and TUL are not the same place, hence not the same approach shot. I still do not understand why the screener who rejected it will not step up and explain (or in this case, defend) his/her reasons for rejection.
Canon Shutter Slut
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 1:58 am

Hey Danny, did you try appealing that shot?

If it was rejected for baddouble, and it is a different airport (I haven't had a look) it should get in no problem.

I rejected a shot the other day as baddouble, but the reg was different, and I did not catch that (so it wasn't baddouble). The photog appealed and the shot was accepted.
 
fl350
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 6):
Update...I appealed the rejected approach shot last night and explained that sure, it was the same plane, same day, but it was a different airport, different approach. Well....that didn't work...shot down again. Just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well I guess...time to move on.

Danny

Don't forget to read all the posts Royal, it was appealled and rejected.

Cheers
Fabrice
Fabrice Sanchez - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 5:17 am

Yes, Royal, it WAS appealed and rejected again overnight. Should I re-upload again and make note of it to the screeners? Thanks for a response from a screener finally!  Smile

Danny
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clickhappy
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 5:25 am

Hi Danny.

I don't know if reuploading it is the correct thing to do, you would run afoul of the badreupload rule.

I don't know how many screeners are even reading this thread, most have long given up on the forums.

I don't know enough about the picture(s) or the rejection(s) to make any sort of informed statement, but I feel your pain. Perhaps I will see if a couple of my fellow team members can have a look and maybe add some insight. I know Glenn has weighed in but I don't know if he screened your shots...

My guess is this is some sort of misunderstanding, no one would just reject a shot for baddouble if there was not a good reason. Perhaps you have a similiar shot in the queue?
 
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 5:30 am

Thanks Royal, I am hoping it was a mixup. I just don't see the baddouble in it. I just know I appealed and it was rejected again overnight while I slept, so it didn't take long. I don't know why I wan't it in so bad. I just feel that I got a raw deal on a unique shot by me as I don't get the chance to fly in the front like that very often.

Danny
Bring back Bethune!
 
Psych
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 5:38 am

I have been banging on about this issue of transparency in my current thread about badcommon. Thankfully I was given an explanation for my rejection which, whether I like it or not, at least helps me and other readers further develop our understanding of the screening process.

Here the mystery continues. There are a lot of photographers out here who thought they understood the baddouble criteria to a reasonable degree, and Glenn's contributions here have been informative. But with Danny's shots we are still in the dark.

As you see from the early posts, I thought this must be a genuine mistake - no shame there if it was. But evidently the appeal was unsuccessful, which suggests there is a clear reason for rejection. Surely it is completely appropriate for that reason to be publicly available, given the debate that has gone on here. This is not about criticism - it is about there being a transparent process that is appropriately open to scrutiny.

Photographers must recognise that they are here to play by the rules - but it's not unreasonable to ask for clarification when those rules, for whatever reason, become unclear.

Paul
 
Stealthz
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 31):
I don't know how many screeners are even reading this thread, most have long given up on the forums.

mmm.. That is kind of scary.. I understand that screeners devote a lot of time to the task they volunteered for and also like to enjoy their chosen hobby as well as their personal lives. This forum is the recommended, even mandated, place for photographerrs to give and get feedback on the process.

If screeners have long given up on the forums then there may some problems with a.net that need addressing.
It is easy to get the impression, likely incorrectly, that screeners are (with a few exceptions) aloof and distant with a condescending attitude to photographers. Your comments certainly help foster this.
The fact that Danny's original issue has been almost totally ignored also promotes this concept.

What seems to be a growing distance between these 2 communities should be a concern to both.

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 6:31 am

Chris,

The Screeners dont pay much attention due to the amount of crap that's posted in here, ask many long time contributors to the site and your find that this forum has gone way down hill to how it used to be. Those that do read the threads do make validpoints known to the others.

Glenn,

No need to tell me how the system "works", I thought I knew Big grin

Cheers

Paul
 
Stealthz
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 6:47 am

Paul,

I can accept that there is a lot of crap... but maybe a little more dialogue from screeners would reduce the crap.
By avoiding the forum the screeners miss a lot of relevant feedback(that admittedly can get lost amongst the "crap")
I realise you are a "retired' screener but I wonder if the screener community realise the frustration of many photographers at the one way nature of these issues!!
Photographers are "retiring" as well and more will in the future.

Regards

Chris

added comment about relevant feedback

[Edited 2005-05-09 23:51:28]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
JAT74L
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 7:01 am

I'm pretty shocked to read Royal's statement that the screeners have "given up" on this forum, and that Sukhoi is saying that the screeners don't pay much attention due to to "the amount of crap" that's posted here.

I see some crap here yes, but I also see a LOT of unanswered questions. Perhaps the difficult ones are put in the "crap" category and are ignored by the screeners who have given up.

We (the photographers) are ADVISED to seek assistance on this forum. Sometimes we may be right, sometimes we may be misunderstood and sometimes we may be talking crap but, you can't just ignore it.

I think it's time the screeners who have stopped participating follow the lead of the likes of Granite and Tamsin (among others) and positively engage in the legitimate debates that are held here.

Regards

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 8:50 am

Quoting Law4fun (Reply 24):
STILL no exlplanation about Danny's approach shots into different airports...Does any screener know what is going on there?!?!?!?!?

Bad double only applies to same photographer, same airport, same registration, same day. If the rejection was purely bad double and there were two airports involved then this is a mistake (as I said, we're human  Wink)
If you believe the second shot is so necessary that the bad double is unjustified, then there is an appeal function you may use.

Glenn Stewart
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 8:53 am

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 26):
Hmmmm....why is MY shot that started THIS thread being ignored?

Sorry Danny.... not my intention to ignore your shot. But my replies are quite general and do apply to your shot as well.

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
Stealthz
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 9:03 am

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 38):
If you believe the second shot is so necessary that the bad double is unjustified, then there is an appeal function you may use

Glenn,
Great to see screeners reading at least part of the thread!!!
Danny did appeal and was rejected again... by your explanation it should have got through(given quality was acceptable) but didn't.

So far no explanantion...

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
xpfg
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 38):
If the rejection was purely bad double and there were two airports involved then this is a mistake (as I said, we're human Wink)
If you believe the second shot is so necessary that the bad double is unjustified, then there is an appeal function you may use.

He's already appealed it...so if you admit it as a fault, what do you suggest to do now? I myself am quite interested at this point.  Smile
 
dc10tim
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 9:14 am

It would appear that much of the ambiguity here and indifference towards the screeners on behalf of the photographers is largely due to personal perception being used in the screening process and not having 'specific' guidelines set in concrete.

I think that the examples posted in this thread are testament to this.

Matters are only going to get worse unless far more clarity is provided for all.

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 30):
Should I re-upload again and make note of it to the screeners? Thanks for a response from a screener finally!

Hi Danny,

I guess you didn't realise that I'd replied already 3 times before writing this.
I'm very busy, but apart from managing to "try" to help you here, I've also checked the queue...... nothing.

Is the shot in the queue now?

Apart from that, an observation.....
You're really shot this registration to pieces now. Is there any particularly good reason you need a 5th shot accepted? I think you've got excellent coverage with your current ones:

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...h=April%2030,%202005®search=N6105V


Glenn Stewart
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 9:49 am

WOW! Where to begin, lol

First off, I am glad both Royal and Glenn have joined in on the screening side and I thank you for that. The one thing that I have read in the latest string of replies that bothers me and others it seems, is the reluctance of screeners to participate in discussions anymore. I can somewhat understand that as there is a lot of "crap" that happens here and even I, as a contributor to this site, get tired of. Unfortunately, like others have said, there are legitimate threads that don't get attention, but the negative posts seem to. Anyway, back to my issue. I have now had 2 screeners ask me if I have appealed the shot. I may be jumping to conclusions here, but that makes me feel that there may have been a mistake made. If so, I wish it would be made clear, not publicly, but privately through email. I won't hold grudges!  Smile Glenn, you even seem to have checked in the queue to see if it was there. I had stated that I had already appealed it and then asked Royal if I should reupload, to which he said it may not be a good idea. Ok, fine. I can't appeal a shot twice can I? Glenn you also mentioned that I "shot this registration to pieces now." Yes, I have admitted I do have a few shots from/of this aircraft accepted already. This one just makes me shake my head seeing how its depicting something completely different than the others. It was a great short approach and I think this shot shows that. I don't know what else I can say besides to thank everyone for their support and to Royal and Glenn for screener participation. I'm here to enjoy other peoples work and to let other's enjoy mine, not to nitpick or step on anyone's toes. Thanks again.

Danny
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glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 42):
personal perception being used in the screening process and not having 'specific' guidelines set in concrete.

Tim,

Screening guidelines are quite specifc with their guidelines, and I think quite well designed for a website processing as many images as this one.

I understand from a photographer view, rejections might not seem as clear as seen through the eyes of a screener. But I guess when you note that some of the more senior screeners have screened up to 500,000 photos by themselves, it's easy to see why many rejections would be so clear and easy to understand.

----

Thankfully we're talking about one of the simplest rejection reasons  Smile

Bad double has very, very clear guidelines. It's really one that shouldn't be questioned (albeit human mishaps can always be questioned). Bad double is quite easy to screen given that for me, with practice, knowing whether something is bad double or not, is not a difficult task.

For the photographers, it should come down:

1. Reading the rejection reason (for bad double, this is self explanatory)
2. Checking the database (is this a common aircraft)
3. Knowing the reason for uploading multiples (I'm uploading 2 because this is a rare aircraft OR I'm uploading one, because it's general aviation or general airliner)
4. Using common sense (does anyone want to see multiples of the same thing?)

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 35):
Glenn,
No need to tell me how the system "works", I thought I knew

Heheh.... no worries Paul. I wouldn't tell you how to "suck eggs". Comments for the enthusiasts and photograhers. I enjoy at least taking time out on the forums to help where possible.

You know from experience I did that behind the scenes with starting out screeners as well.

Glenn
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glennstewart
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 10:33 am

Hi Danny,

First of all, I'm at work.... so replying very quickly (hence so many mini posts instead of one big one).

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 44):
Glenn, you even seem to have checked in the queue to see if it was there. I had stated that I had already appealed it and then asked Royal if I should reupload, to which he said it may not be a good idea.

Yeah, understood.
If you appeal, only head screeners can view it. It automatically gets removed from our "normal" queue. The only way for Royal or myself to see it, is to remove it from the appeals.
That said, I think I would be unfair to other photographers to screen a GA shot of yours given 4 others already accepted. Sort of flies in the face of most of the threads I read about priority screening for non important shots.

I don't particularly want to cause one of those  Wink
Hope you appreciate where I'm coming from with this.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 44):
Ok, fine. I can't appeal a shot twice can I?

No, it's bad enough uploading something twice let alone uploading when it's in appeal queue. This is considered a big boo-boo. We have clear guidelines stating you should either reupload after rejection OR appeal - but never both.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 44):
Glenn you also mentioned that I "shot this registration to pieces now." Yes, I have admitted I do have a few shots from/of this aircraft accepted already. This one just makes me shake my head seeing how its depicting something completely different than the others. It was a great short approach and I think this shot shows that.

I understand where you're coming from. First of all, thanks for taking the time to take the shots and upload them. I would ask in future that you share the best with us.
I see examples sometimes where photographers leave the "best till last". They upload their best "1 or 2" as per guidelines. These get accepted, then they upload their best shot...... well unfortunately, we don't have the ability to know you've got something better coming along, and it's a pity we can't accept these.

Quoting Fiveholer (Reply 44):
I don't know what else I can say besides to thank everyone for their support and to Royal and Glenn for screener participation. I'm here to enjoy other peoples work and to let other's enjoy mine, not to nitpick or step on anyone's toes. Thanks again.

That's part of our job. Although one Royal's comments.... I don't think that the screeners have "given up" on forums. I think that after seeing screener bashing comment, after comment.... it gets very disheartening especially when so much time and effort goes into screening.

I'll admit to resent spending a lot of time on projects at work, so my screening as been on a little bit of a hiatus. I'm getting back into it now, and I enjoy helping out. But sometimes we need a few comments like yours above. Makes me feel like going home and spending a good 2-3 hours trying to get the queue down (and when you realise that some of the senior screeners spend 6-8 hours of their spare time doing hard yards, you have to respect them.... and forgive them for their very rare, but still "only human" oversights).

Glenn Stewart
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Fiveholer
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 10:53 am

Glenn,

Thanks for replying.

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 47):
First of all, I'm at work.... so replying very quickly (hence so many mini posts instead of one big one).

God, is it tomorrow already?!  Wink

I guess its time to close the book on this one. I may not agree with the screener's interpretation of "baddboule" on the discussed shot, but it's obvious this isn't going to go anywhere. We don't always get what we want and that is true in this case. What can I say, I tried.  Smile Thanks again to everyone who participated in this thread and screeners, please continue to work with contributors in a civilized matter as in this thread.

Danny
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Jan Mogren
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RE: Confused About A Baddouble Rejection.

Tue May 10, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 47):
The only way for Royal or myself to see it, is to remove it from the appeals.

It was rejected on appeal.

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 47):
I think I would be unfair to other photographers to screen a GA shot



Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 47):
priority screening for non important shots

I don't think he is asking for priority? Just asking if ok to reupload.

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 47):
where photographers leave the "best till last". They upload their best "1 or 2"

It is a *different airport* from the other shots.


If it was rejected because of a mistake, surely he can reupload, no ?

/JM
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