Airplanepics
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Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 3:54 am

Hey all,

Im not usually one to complain about rejection's but this one baffled me.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...?filename=GVSHYVSA346LHR070505.jpg

It got rejected for Badquality and BadCommon.

Ok, theres 118 shots of this aircraft on the database, but this isn't a common angle - so I would of thought this would elminate it from the Badcommon rejection.

Can someone tell me if im missing something here?

I look forward into hearing some replies.

Simon

[Edited 2005-05-16 20:55:01]
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 3:59 am

That is a swet shot! The only issue with quality I could see is that the sky looks kind of grainy. Did you sharpen the whole pic or just the plane? I am not one to answer the bad common question, but the quality issue might be because there are so many pics of this a/c that the picture needs to be flawless. Just my opinion, I really like it though.
-Matt
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1):
That is a swet shot! The only issue with quality I could see is that the sky looks kind of grainy. Did you sharpen the whole pic or just the plane? I am not one to answer the bad common question, but the quality issue might be because there are so many pics of this a/c that the picture needs to be flawless. Just my opinion, I really like it though.
-Matt

Thank's for your comments!

I only sharpened the plane..the grain might be there as I had to lighten up the shot quiet a lot.

Simon.
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C133
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 4:11 am

If that was rejected it's time for me to find a new hobby. Awesome shot, Simon.

Terry
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LHRSIMON
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 4:29 am

Yep agree with Matt...

The aircraft is awsome. Very sharp and one i would have uploaded also. But the sky does have more grain than normal which seems odd. Even more so seeing as the aircraft is so sharp....

As for bad common. I cant stand that rejection so im not even going there  Smile

Keep it up
Simon C
 Smile
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 4):
The aircraft is awsome. Very sharp and one i would have uploaded also. But the sky does have more grain than normal which seems odd. Even more so seeing as the aircraft is so sharp....

Thanks for your response.

The grain may be appearing when I convert from RAW to Tiff format....The Program that I use (Raw Shooter Essentials) has been known to do that.
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TZ
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Thread starter):
Ok, theres 118 shots of this aircraft on the database, but this isn't a common angle - so I would of thought this would elminate it from the Badcommon rejection.

"would of" is Essex speak... "would have" is more becoming of one who does not speak with a Thames Estuary drawl.

badcommon is not eliminated in this way... the screener was saying that the quality was not sufficiently for an aircraft with this number of existing images. The angle (or composition) is a little difference from normal, but not so wildly unusual as to warrant lowering the "100+" standard.

Please appeal the shot if necessary.

Tamsin
TZ Aviation - Aeropuerto de los Banditos Team Images
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting Tamsin (Reply 6):
"would of" is Essex speak... "would have" is more becoming of one who does not speak with a Thames Estuary drawl.

You'd know all about that spending most of your evenings in Essex.

Edit: Im not going to appeal as I agree with the badquality rejection, but what I dont agree on is the badcommon reason....especially when this is one of the only pictures of this a/c at this location when there are tons of side on approach shots at Myrtle.

[Edited 2005-05-17 00:07:43]
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
Jkw777
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
You'd know all about that spending most of your evenings in Essex.

SOMEONE GET THAT KID A LOLLY POP!! LMFAO!!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Cheers Simon, you made my evening.

Justin  Smile
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gkirk
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
Quoting Tamsin (Reply 6):
"would of" is Essex speak... "would have" is more becoming of one who does not speak with a Thames Estuary drawl.

You'd know all about that spending most of your evenings in Essex.

Oooh a fight and this isnt even non aviation  Wink  box   fight 

Oh, and nice pic by the way  Wink
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G-CIVP
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:18 am

Hi Simon - I think the answer is in your own reply. To paraphrase, you had to lighten the shot up, hence the grainy sky.

To a degree, there are alot of these '27R type shots' appearing on the database at the moment as photographers are trying to defy the laws of physics and shot when the sun hasn't quite swung round! In truth, there's only a small window of opportunity during the year to do these shots. On the flip side of the coin, there's alot of photographers 'enhancing' their 9M-MPD shots (i.e. bumping up the reds I suspect), taken of the 18.00 arrival as the sun is right on the nose of an evening, resulting in a dark body.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 9):
Oooh a fight and this isnt even non aviation

What do you expect? No one has the right to say something like that, especially if it's a screener.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 9):
Oh, and nice pic by the way

Thanks!
Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 10):
To a degree, there are alot of these '27R type shots' appearing on the database at the moment as photographers are trying to defy the laws of physics and shot when the sun hasn't quite swung round!

You can still get some very nice shot's from that location this time of year. It's just getting there at the right time.

Simon.
Edit: Tim, I will get round to doing that work flow guide for you!

[Edited 2005-05-17 00:28:15]
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:30 am

OK - here we go:


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Photo © Tommy Mogren / Viking Slides
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Photo © Michael Catchpole



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Photo © Simon Curtis
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Photo © Simon Curtis



With the Etihad B767, the sun hasn't swung around, hence the back-lit side. With the DLH CRJ, Mike has caught it nicely before it has turned fully onto 27L.

With the Syrian Airbus and ANA B747, you can clearly see the sun on the nose. This said, I like the Pokemon shot but as it's taken around 16.00, so hence the light is falling to the right of the aircraft. This said, as with the Pokemon example, (as with all aircraft photography) it isn't necessarily about getting a perfect, illuminated, side-on and sun lit shot.

Hope this helps.

PS Simon - I would still like your PS advice!
 
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:31 am

Simon - our replies have crossed. Agreed, you can get nice shots but as you note, alot is about timing. Cheers, Tim.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:32 am

I was right next to Mike when he shot that.  Wink
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unattendedbag
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Tamsin (Reply 6):
badcommon is not eliminated in this way... the screener was saying that the quality was not sufficiently for an aircraft with this number of existing images. The angle (or composition) is a little difference from normal, but not so wildly unusual as to warrant lowering the "100+" standard.

not to ruffle feathers, but the most recent shot of this aircraft to be accepted is:

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Photo © Johan Knijn



There were 117 photos of this aircraft in the database (many, many looking very similar to number 118) and a screener chose to accept it.

I disagree with badcommon!
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C133
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 10:31 am

And these two weren't a double?

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Photo © Mike Moores
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Photo © Mike Moores

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Sukhoi
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 4:51 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
You'd know all about that spending most of your evenings in Essex.

 box 

 rotfl 
 
Granite
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 5:06 pm

Simon

Nice angle and nice light but think your post processing on this one stinks!

Start from scratch and AVOID selecting specific areas for sharpening. If you want to sharpen, sharpen the whole image.

Simon, if you want, send me the original after 5.00pm and I will have a look myself.

Regards

Gary

[Edited 2005-05-17 10:09:41]
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 6:34 pm

Lovely shot Simon.
A quick question what sort of lens did you use for this shot.?
Im impressed with the sharpness of it thanks again.
Cheers
On a wing and a prayer
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting Granite (Reply 18):

Simon, if you want, send me the original after 5.00pm and I will have a look myself.

Thank's for you help Gary, I will send it over later! Good Luck!

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 19):
Lovely shot Simon.
A quick question what sort of lens did you use for this shot.?
Im impressed with the sharpness of it thanks again.
Cheers

I used a 70-200F4 L with a 2x Extender.

Simon  Smile
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:31 pm

Simon,

First time I've seen your VS A346 shot, and it looks very nice... BUT, aside from what's already been said the tail is grossly soft, particularly the word "Virgin" on the tail. You're shooting the longest passenger carrying airplane in the world there, and you need significant depth of field to get both front and back sharp. Suggest you shoot it again, with a much smaller aperture.

Andy
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Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:34 pm

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 21):
First time I've seen your VS A346 shot, and it looks very nice... BUT, aside from what's already been said the tail is grossly soft, particularly the word "Virgin" on the tail. You're shooting the longest passenger carrying airplane in the world there, and you need significant depth of field to get both front and back sharp. Suggest you shoot it again, with a much smaller aperture.

Andy,

Many thank's for your comments, will give it a try next time.
But what is still baffling me is how it received a badcommon rejection? Looking at posts 15 and 16, I can't see how this angle could warrant this type of rejection!

Simon  Smile
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LHRSIMON
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Gotta say that 27R arrivals taken from the northside rock !!! Big grin I agree it is difficult and you can swear alot when editing, but with a bit of time and trouble you can get some cracking results. Even if the sun is in the wrong place..... Excuse the plug but what the hell im proud of these !!! Big grin  Smile


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Photo © Simon Curtis
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Photo © Simon Curtis



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Photo © Simon Curtis
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Photo © Simon Curtis





Simon C
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Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 23):
Gotta say that 27R arrivals taken from the northside rock !!! I agree it is difficult and you can swear alot when editing, but with a bit of time and trouble you can get some cracking results. Even if the sun is in the wrong place..... Excuse the plug but what the hell im proud of these !!!

Simon,

The best time to go there is early morning or when the sun is setting, not when there backlit!
Simon.
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LGW
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 9:14 pm

Hi all,

I would have given this shot badinfo if I were a screener :-

"Despite LHR being my main local airport"

From Canvey Island STN, LCY, LTN and LGW must all be closer than LHR!  yes 

Cheers

Ben Pritchard
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 9:17 pm

Thanks Simon  Smile

I agree. Imho after 6.30 pm in late May untill the end of June is best.... But on this day i had to leave by 5.00 pm to do a Ice Hockey photo shoot in Slough... That ment i had to try and get the best out of what i had.....

Pretty pleased with the outcome though as i know your always fighting a losing battle trying to get good photos when back lit. Let alone A.Net quality !!!! I can't have done that bad a job though as 9 out of 10 were accepted... So im a happy man Big grin

Simon C
 Smile
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Tue May 17, 2005 9:33 pm

Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 25):
From Canvey Island STN, LCY, LTN and LGW must all be closer than LHR!

Proper Airport!  Wink
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TZ
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
You'd know all about that spending most of your evenings in Essex

That's what YOU may choose to think Simon...

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 7):
Edit: Im not going to appeal as I agree with the badquality rejection, but what I dont agree on is the badcommon reason....especially when this is one of the only pictures of this a/c at this location when there are tons of side on approach shots at Myrtle

The fundamental rejection reason was badquality, which you agree with. The badcommon rejection reason was also selected by the screener (not me) to indicate that, with so many pictures already in the database, our standards for quality (etc) are higher than normal.

The image was not rejected for badcommon alone, and it should be rare for images to be rejected as such. Check the recent postings on this forum for a further explanation of that subject.

Tamsin
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sulman
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 2:45 am

What a strange thread.

So Simon has conceeded that the image could be better, and has agreed with the rejection, after some discussion. That's the way things should run.

I am however surprised and a little disappointed that a senior crewmember who is known for being helpful would - without provocation - choose to belittle someone purely for making a minor grammatical error. Nobody benefits and all that will result is resentment and further confrontation.

Whatever the problem(s), can we knock this on the head please?

Cheers


James
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TZ
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 4:06 am

If I caused offence, sorry Simon. It was intended as tongue-in-cheek banter. Having unwillingly spent far longer in Essex than I would ever care to admit, I have grown accustomed to sharing "Essex jokes" with those around me.

I also admit to having an abnormally low tolerance of poor English language usage in written communications.

Simon, I hold no grudge and again apologise for dragging this thread through the mud.

Please retract your (factually incorrect) comment regarding my evenings and all will be well with the world once again.

Tamsin
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Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 5:17 am

No hard feelings Tamsin.

Quoting Tamsin (Reply 30):
Please retract your (factually incorrect) comment regarding my evenings and all will be well with the world once again.

It was tounge-in cheek banter.  bouncy 
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Granite
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 5:50 am

Hi all

........back to the original topic........Simon's A340 is looking a lot better now  scratchchin 

Regards

Gary
 
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Granite (Reply 32):

........back to the original topic........Simon's A340 is looking a lot better now

It is Gary, it is!  Wink
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spencer
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 6:02 am

Just a query here, and not a whole lot to do with the original post, but your kind of shot Simon/Airplanepics, the way the aircraft is angled as it pulls up to the runway, is the only angle really when the 27R shots are lit nicely, as the Sun is always in the Southern half of the sky, never behind you if you look at 27R. So, basically you have to be pretty lucky with the clouds and Sun position, to even think about getting a decent shot. The line up, as you nailed Si, is a prime example of one of the better angles to succeed. Nice shot BTW.
Spencer.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 6:59 am

Come 18.00 in the evening at the moment, you can hardly fail!
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 20):
I used a 70-200F4 L with a 2x Extender.

Sorry Simon i dint pick up on this point until now.
Did you use manual focus as i tried to use a 2x with my 70-200L f4 and it didn't focus .
If you did nice job with the focusing
On a wing and a prayer
 
Airplanepics
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Thu May 19, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 36):
Sorry Simon i dint pick up on this point until now.
Did you use manual focus as i tried to use a 2x with my 70-200L f4 and it didn't focus .
If you did nice job with the focusing

Hi Jim,

You can only use a 1.4 convertor and still retain the AF, with a 2x convertor on the F4, you lose AF completly.

Simon.

[Edited 2005-05-19 00:13:54]
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chris78cpr
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RE: Rejection Assistance : VS A340-600

Fri May 20, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 37):
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 36):
Sorry Simon i dint pick up on this point until now.
Did you use manual focus as i tried to use a 2x with my 70-200L f4 and it didn't focus .
If you did nice job with the focusing

Hi Jim,

You can only use a 1.4 convertor and still retain the AF, with a 2x convertor on the F4, you lose AF completly.

Simon.

[Edited 2005-05-19 00:13:54]

Not technically true. On a 1d or 1ds you can still retain AF. I have used my 70-200F4L witha 2x and i kept AF. Also if you tape the pins you can keep AF with it too.

Chris
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