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Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:27 am

This is a continuation of: Watermarks....protecting Our Images Against Theft (by AKE0404AR Jun 2 2005 in Aviation Photography)

You must read that before you can post a comment here.

I am very unsure how to proceed with this. Are most of you for or against a watermark option? If you're for a watermark option, should it be in a corner like in Denis example or should it cover the middle of the image? I agree Denis example looks good but will it have any real effect?

Thanks,
Johan
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:34 am

Well im not a big fan of watermarks it puts me off looking at the image.
But that's only my 2c worth.
And yes i have read the thread
Johan how about making it an option for each photog ?
We can tick a box the same way as we do for the photo sales on uploading.
If a photog decides he wants a watermark he can have an Anet watermark from side to side on his large version.

[Edited 2005-07-01 00:42:18]
On a wing and a prayer
 
CallMeCapt
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:37 am

I wouldn't mind an airliners.net watermark. Not sure what kind of an impact it would have on the sites popularity though. Go with the majority, I guess.
Without struggle, there is no progress. (Frederick Douglass)
 
United737522
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:44 am

Ughh, any kind of watermark is awful. The copyright bar is enough. What is the difference to stop people from using it?

Please don't tell me there is not a way to disable right click and the little save button (even in firefox).
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
fleitao
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:02 am

Hi all,

I don't like the watermarks as an idea in general, but:

Dennis's proposal was very imaginative and might be a good solution if that's the path to follow.
I can agree with the arguments that it would bring lots of photos that those great guys don't want to show so they don't get ripped off. I just don't know whether it is a relevant number, but we'll have to believe it is.
If it is given a choice by photographer or even by photo (in some kind of administration page, or something like that), i guess that everybody would be happy, so why not ?

Regards
An Airbus is not a Playstation with wings.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:09 am

Although I do not really prefer a watermark, I realize many do, and therefore a decision must be made. I do not believe that it should be an option though. Either every photo has it, or not. What is the point of it if the thief can just abuse a similar photo that does not have the watermark? If we do use one, then I support Denis' idea, a small logo in one of the corners with the photographers name.

As for seeing the non-watermark version, I think it would be rather trashy to only allow FC members to view it. It reminds me of those joker computer desktop background websites, where one must pay to see the full version. That is not what Airliners.net is about.

In my opinion, if we want to make a decision, it must be one that every A.net member/viewer must abide by. Either every photo has the watermark, or not. Either every person sees the unedited version, or not.

I also agree that a formal poll must be conducted, rather then just a few opinions in the forums.


Chris

[Edited 2005-07-01 01:11:46]
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
Dazed767
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:09 am

Even though I've had images used straight from the site (saves me a lot of time to find the CD and email the image to them), I say yes to the watermark. In the end it will save us the headaches of having to deal with stolen photos.

Justin
 
A346Dude
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:14 am

As I've said before in the other thread, I'm against the idea of a watermark. Airliners.net has always been about the highest quality aviation photos, and a watermark detracts from that.

Having photos stolen is a risk inherent in posting them on the internet. I understand the hard work every photographer here puts into their photos, but at the end of the day there are worse things than having a photo you took used without permission.

IF the majority decides that they want a watermark, and again I hope that doesn't happen, please do make it an option for the photographer.

Thanks for listening to my two cents worth.

A346Dude
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:20 am

Because I could care less if someone steals my photos I am against the watermark feature.
 
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airkas1
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:27 am

I'm against a watermark on our photos. I think It'll make the photos look bad and that fewer people will view them.
Airliners.net Crew - Head Photo Screener
 
TS
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:43 am

I'm against any new watermark as it will likely harm a.net. The small watermark proposed by Denis is basically already possible. Looks good if it's done right:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Watt - AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Whitelaw

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
nosedive
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting TS (Reply 10):
The small watermark proposed by Denis is basically already possible. Looks good if it's done right:

I didn't see anything pertaing to photographers who have already copyrighted their images on a.net in the other thread, and if I missed it this point needs to be brought up again. To me it seems pretty stupid to have 2 copyrights/watermarks on these images. Will the images such as the 2 above have to be reuploaded so that only the a.net watermark is on the image?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:32 am

From the photo usage requirements:

"The digital photos on this site are licensed to Airliners.net. They are equipped with a footer with copyright and license information and also carry an invisible watermark."

I've never understood the invisible watermark feature. When does it become "visible", if at all?

I'd like to see a "trial" watermark before making a decision.

Thx Johan.
 
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mx330
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:36 am

My vote is YES.

Make it an option for the photographer and that thing about the FC members not seeing the Water Mark sounds 0K too.

Juan APM
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
futureuapilot
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:12 am

Sorry, but my vote is NO! I think it would reduse the traffic to the site...

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 12):

I'd like to see a "trial" watermark before making a decision.

Johan has set up a trial thingie in the other thread.

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
JeffM
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:29 am

I'm for the watermark, and I think it should be visible (transparent) across the entire middle of the image. Making it smaller will only allow people to clone it out. If someone wants an marked image, they need to contact the photographer. simple, effective.
 
United737522
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Mx330 (Reply 13):
FC members not seeing the Water Mark sounds 0K too.

What is the point then? Someone signs up for one month of FC and have all the images they want... it totally defeats the purpose.

The two examples above, what is to keep people from hacking those off and using them? All those do is distract from the images.

Here is an idea, why not put a completely transparent, second image over the existing image? Then, when a right click, save pictures as results in saving the transparent image rather than the actual picture.
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
Danny
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:03 am

I support discret watermark idea. Vote for YES.
 
chris78cpr
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:12 am

Im all for watermarks!

Let it be an option to those who want it!

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
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blackbird1
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:41 am

I'm enjoying watching aircraft pics....without any distractions like watermarks.

My vote is: NO!

Gerhard
I'd rather be flying!
 
f4wso
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:16 pm

I think the Airliners.net border at the bottom is sufficient for my images. I would not opt for any other watermark.

Thanks for polling us on the issue.
Gary Chambers
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
Lindy
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:20 pm

My vote goes for watermark.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
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mx330
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting United737522 (Reply 16):
Quoting Mx330 (Reply 13):
FC members not seeing the Water Mark sounds 0K too.

What is the point then? Someone signs up for one month of FC and have all the images they want... It totally defeats the purpose.

Right, got me there!

Quoting United737522 (Reply 16):
Here is an idea, why not put a completely transparent, second image over the existing image? Then, when a right click, save pictures as results in saving the transparent image rather than the actual picture.

Sounds nice but is it possible to do that?

A Water Mark at the end of the day some guys like it and some others don't.
I think the decision should be up to the photographer, but Johan has the final word and I will stick to it. My vote is still YES.

Juan APM
All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
 
aviatortj
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:50 pm

I prefer the option to watermark. The generator created by Johan would be the version I would like to see instead of Denis. http://www.airliners.net/static/delme.php Along with the airliners.net watermark, part of the option should include choices for location and transparency. Since it works different in each shot, the photographer can check the yes or no box for their watermark, then select a corner or center image from a dropdown, and then choose transparency.

Also, if a watermark is added to a photo, it should stay with a photo regardless of membership status. A three month membership for a clear photo would still be cheaper than getting a photo legitimately.

Regarding the disabling right click. Why in the hell would you want that? Don't you think people like using your photo as a desktop?

Just for kicks, here is an example of my watermark on my personal website:


and one designed for another site:


All my best-
TJ
 
AirNikon
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:56 pm

Uhhh, why was this website concocted in the first place? Certainly not as a venue to market YOUR PICTURES for profit. Additionally, it must be decided whether this watermark issue benefits the small minority of photographers that demand it vs. the health of ANet [and visitors] in general.

For those photogs that insist on a watermark, let them have it. Otherwise, leave the rest of us out of it...
Don't get married, don't have kids, and you will have more money than you know what to do with...
 
crank
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:13 pm

I'm against watermarks.

My vote is: NO
 
benoit9999
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:21 pm

My vote is : NO

.............................................................................................................
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:39 pm

I personally vote No, for mine. As there is such a divergence of opinion between all the photographers, I think it will have to be an option you can select at upload time. Should keep everyone happy.

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
INNflight
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:40 pm

Would a smaller watermark ( also in the center of the photo, like the beta-one Johan posted in the other thread, just smaller! Not from the very left to the very right? ) be possible?

If it's in the center, it's almost impossible to clone out, so no need to have it that large.

I'm still undecided wether yes or no on this issue.

Florian
Jet Visuals
 
ghost77
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:53 pm

After 5 years since my first upload... I'm tired of seeing my pics stolen!

BIG YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
andy777
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:00 pm

My vote is no as well. My Southwest 737 picture I used on the test page looked like a Airliners.net logo jet and it really spoilt the picture.

I hope that if we go down this road that it will be optional to have a watermark.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:10 pm

My personal vote is NO,

My personal web photos have a watermark (that is continually evolving) e.g



but on A.net for me the Airliners title bar is sufficient.

Any extremely valuable image I will protect some other way.

Regards
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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lindy field
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:21 pm

Well, speaking as someone with just three images in the database but who as an editor has spent quite a lot of time looking at images in the db, I'm going to add my two cents. If we do go with the watermark, it should absolutely remain optional.

My preference is for no change at all, but I recognize that some photographers have a legitimate concern about theft so my second preference is for a subtle corner based watermark like the examples by Gary Watt and Julian Whitelaw posted above.

I don't really like the example by Denis - I find it detracts from the image. I would also keep the current copyright bar. I think it looks more professional in a way.

I really hate the example posted by Johan with the band straight across the middle of the photo. I see absolutely no point in uploading a photo spoiled by a bar like that unless it's to their own website. I think it will just alienate the casual, honest user, decrease the number of visitors to the site and drive down advertising revenue for Johan.
 
ghostbase
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:39 pm

I am voting NO as well.

We need to keep a sense of proportion over this issue. Of the 800,000 plus photos on the database realistically how many are actually *stolen* for commercial use?

However discreet the watermark is it will distract from the quality of the photo, the quality of photography is why this site is the most successful of the genre. Do we risk alienating the 99.9% honest majority for the 0.01% who are not?

If the majority vote is yes then I think it should still be optional for the photographer. The Airliners.Net footer is good enough for me.

 ghost 
"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
 
pixart
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:02 pm

My personal vote is NO!
But I think an option would be the best solution.
 
IL76
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:04 pm

Note me down as a "NO" please...
For reasons I have mentioned in the other thread.

Cheers,
Eduard
 
LGW
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:09 pm

Hi Johan/All,

My vote is NO.

Especially not one like Denis suggested or one in the middle.

If we had to perhaps one like Garry Lewis or Gary Watt use but I am not in favour of any watermark. I am fully aware of the risks in theft of images but it really would detract from images to have a watermark like these on them

Cheers

Ben Pritchard
 
willo
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:13 pm

I am also voting "No" as I think it will detract from the quality of the pictures.

I accept that by uploading my work to the internet and despite attempts to prevent it happening, it will get ripped off. I have the same problem on my own website. I suspect that your point of view probably comes down to whether you upload for the exposure or the money!
 
Tommy Mogren
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:29 pm

As I have made perfectly clear in the previous thread,

I VOTE BIG YES.

I think it should be optional, at upload time.

I would prefer if we could get the following options of placement.

1. Upper left corner
2. Upper right corner
3. Lower left corner
4. Lower right corner
5. Lower center

and in 10% and 20% opacity as Johan's example shows.


Tommy Mogren
Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:35 pm

My gut reaction is to say NO. I feel it totally detracts from the image - I ran a number of mine through the test and was not happy with the look.

I take shots of planes because I enjoy my slightly odd hobby. I also enjoy uploading my shots here and receiving the occasional complimentary email from someone. I have never made a penny from my shots (I have been published once, but had the fee donated to a cancer charity), and it's not really my intention to make money from my hobby. Yes, of course, if Flight wanted to pay me to put one of my shots on their cover I'd consider it!

However, I also understand that there are photographers here who do intend to make money from their shots, and they have every right to protect their work. I believe the watermark should be the choice of the photographer when they upload (plus an option in My Photos to add or remove the watermark to all photos in the DB). But, the watermark has to be consistent when it is applied (vary the location, but not the actual watermark).

Please don't make this compulsory for all photos. I will have to reconsider uploading if the watermark is forced on my images when I don't want it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
malandan
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:10 pm

I remain against the proposal but realistically, if it is an option at the time of upload and that I can, as a First Class member, continue to view all photos without the watermark, then I would reluctantly agree.

Malcolm.
My interest lies in the future as I am going to spend the rest of my life there!
 
sulman
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:14 pm

No. I think it's ugly.

Cheers


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
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derekf
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:27 pm

I vote NO as well.
There isn't much point in uploading high quality images then putting a watermark on the picture to ruin it again.

Derek
Whatever.......
 
Tameteora
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:34 pm

I do NOT like the idea of watermarks at all. I have tried it for several of my photos, and I really hated it.

Watermarking is basically the deliberate destruction of an image to make it unfit for use by others. Such a deliberate act can never go with the high screening standards of this site. You can't go rejecting a photo that has a few hardly visible dust spots or needs a measly 0.3 CW rotation, and on the other hand accepting a photo that has a much more disturbing watermark stamped all over it. Now that would surely be double standards...

BUT... If the watermark feature is to be implemented anyway, I feel there should be two conditions:

  • It should be optional (and hopefully not many photographers will choose to use it)
  • There should be an option on the search pages to exclude watermarked images from a search. If the photographer has the choice to watermark or not, then the viewer should have a choice to view them or not. I know for a fact that I will often use that option when viewing photos!

Regards,
Aad.
 
IL76
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:02 pm

Quoting Tameteora (Reply 43):
There should be an option on the search pages to exclude watermarked images from a search. If the photographer has the choice to watermark or not, then the viewer should have a choice to view them or not. I know for a fact that I will often use that option when viewing photos!

Now that's a good idea!  thumbsup 
And since every picture will get a watermark 'tick' in the actual database, it would also be possible to mention next to the thumbnail that there is a watermark on the big picture. Then we'll be notified which pictures not to open.

Eduard
 
dc10tim
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:34 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 44):
Quoting Tameteora (Reply 43):
There should be an option on the search pages to exclude watermarked images from a search. If the photographer has the choice to watermark or not, then the viewer should have a choice to view them or not. I know for a fact that I will often use that option when viewing photos!

Now that's a good idea!
And since every picture will get a watermark 'tick' in the actual database, it would also be possible to mention next to the thumbnail that there is a watermark on the big picture. Then we'll be notified which pictures not to open.

Eduard

I think we might be onto something here guys! I personally am really against the idea, but I can understand why some people would want to have a watermark.

I think letting photographers choose could be the answer.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
WhyWhyZed
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:02 pm

I too am against the idea of getting a watermark on my images, and any other images. I enjoy all this as a hobby, a photo sale is only a minor incentive from doing so. Also, I don't seem to notice all that many photos being stolen, and if a photo is stolen, someone here notices shortly after, and makes a thread about it in aviation photography.

I'm also for the fresh idea of having the choice of viewing or not viewing the watermarked photos, through the search engine, and if possible maybe have a little mark through the lists, so that you know which ones have it then also?

- Jason DePodesta
 
US333
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:26 am

My vote is NO, I think it's too much of a distraction

-Kyle
 
Airplanepics
Posts: 2590
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:27 am

Big no from me.

We all knew that theres a risk of people stealing out photos before uploading here.
Its a risk you take.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
AIHTOURS
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RE: Watermark Option - Yes Or No?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:35 am

I will have to say NO, and if there is a watermark, it should have the Photographers name, not just Airliners.net.

and the large versions for First Class members only idea is pathetic. That's the route you take if you want to reduce the popularity of the site IMO.

Regards,
AIHTOURS (formally signalone)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5 User

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