bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:56 am

I got two rejections recently that I wonder about.

Now, if Anet just doesn't allow it, I understand, but I was using a polarizer and took the following photos:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...CO_738_N76265_EWR4RArr1_091005.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ka_738_N546AS_EWR4RArr1_091005.jpg

The sky is the color it is because of the polarizer. The plane itself, I think, is of the exact color and contrast as reality. Personally, I think it should be accepted. The sky happens to be very rich. The sky was extremely harsh that day so I used a polarzer.

Your thoughts?

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
waketurbulence
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:33 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:12 am

Hey Phil, looking through those two it seems the contrast between the sky and white of the aircraft is too much. It almost started to hurt my eyes. The white in the CO and especially the AS are too bright. The sky itself looks fine to me. Look forward to meeting you and everyone else at LAX next weekend.
-Matt
 
Bobster2
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:29 am

Those pictures look a lot better with curves adjustments to lighten the shadows under the planes.

And the sky is noisy, it needs some noise reduction. Maybe the ISO was too high.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
flyfisher1976
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:55 am

In the future, I would avoid using the polarizer filter and make adjustments in post-processing if necessary. The colors in these shots just don't look natural.
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Thread starter):
Now, if Anet just doesn't allow it, I understand, but I was using a polarizer and took the following photos

Not allow it? That would go past all rule of photography, and make this site an inelligible bachelor!  Smile

It looks okay, very nice photos, maybe a bit of desaturation would help  Smile
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:20 pm

If you took that plane...and added it to the hazy sky that actually existed....it would look like shit. The plane is exactly what it SHOULD look like. The ONLY difference is the rich color of the sky. If I didn'tuse a polarizer, you'd see a crappy hazed out blue that woudl get rejected for bad quality or whatever.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:40 pm

The sky looks great! I think the badcontrast is for the dark belly of the aircraft not the sky.
The fact that the plane actually looked like that is besides the point.

Hisham.
 
Dehowie
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:46 pm

G'day Phil
I really like the deep blue you get with using a Polarizer it is outstanding.
I have a 77mm for my 100-400 and 70-200 and got some excellent results with hazy skies and even on a clear day at really helping bring the blue out in the sky.
It is also excellent at bringing out the underside detail without giving that overexposed look to the top side of the aircraft.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Darren Howie


I really like how punchy that Alaska shot looks against that great sky.
Thats what polarizers are about.
Darren
2EOS1DX,EF14.2.8LII,17TS,85/1.2,16-35L,24-70LII,24L,70-200F2.8LII,100-400,300/400/500/800L
 
Psych
Posts: 2944
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:13 pm

Hi Phil,

I agree that a polariser can be very helpful in certain circumstances.

I used one in this shot to improve the contrast between the white fuselage and the blue of the sky:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Markman


But I think the problem then is to ensure that the darker areas that will be created by the filter (due to the fact it takes 2+ stops off the exposure) are brightened. That is what I see as the problem with these photos - they are, in effect, too dark.

So I would agree with the comments above that the dark undersides need to be brightened.

Take care.

Paul
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:06 pm

So a baddark would have been understanable. Why the badcontrast?

Thanks for the input, guys. Just wanted to know also that I wasn't alone in the polarizer world.

These shots were underexposed -1.3

I guess I needed more.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:07 am

Baddark means the whole photo is uniformly underexposed. In this case the upper fuselage is correctly exposed. Adding more light may have resulted in overexposing the upper fuselage. You were dealing with a contrasty situation that's difficult to meter. What's the contrast setting on your 10D? I usually keep it at zero.

Hisham.
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Reply 9):
Why the badcontrast?

Hi Phil! I agree with the first posts, looks too contrasty in my eyes, but I think you can solve that with a different editing and still keep the sky looking good.

I use a circular polarizer with mixed results; I like the way I can pump up the contrast in a lot of situations (not only sky shots, try using it so that the runway appears real dark) but I think quality and sharpness suffers, sometimes so much that it would ruin the shot.

Got several shots from MEX right now in the queue, all of them shot with my polarizer, I hope they make the cut  Smile

Cheers

j
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:40 am

Phil,

Those shots are nice. I always like the deep blue sky tones.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
norfolkjohn
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:20 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:41 am

Hi,

The actual reason for rejection of each shot has not been mentioned although the general assumption seems to be contrast and or dark. I do think the level of contrast is excessive in both shots but I have to say that I would have though the Alaska 737 would have got NOA_Quality. Apart from the contrast issue, what are those white marks below the rear fuselage ? Not to mention the ghost of a winglet between the wing tip and vertical tail fin. It looks to me like some dust spot removal may have gone wrong. Looks even more peculiar if you equalize the shot. I would also say that this shot is slightly over sharpened - jaggies on tail, winglet and top of fuselage.

If you are looking to re-edit this shot I think there are more areas to be looked at than just contrast.

Good luck.

John
One thorn of experience is worth a whole wilderness of warning.
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:47 am

Good point John.

I had a lot of trouble with reflections as well.

I had my UV Filter under the polarizer, and it seems as though light was bouncing aroudn creating strange glare in several of my shots. I didn't even notice it in this one.

The rejection stands as valid.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
eadster
Posts: 2125
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:31 pm

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 12):
Phil,

Those shots are nice. I always like the deep blue sky tones.

Me too. Clearly the screeners don't like what we like!
 
jakbar
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:47 am

RE: Bad Contrast - Polarizer

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Reply 5):
If you took that plane...and added it to the hazy sky that actually existed....it would look like shit.

Phil, I was standing right next to you and wasn't using a polarizer. I simply shot RAW and edited as needed in Photoshop. I don't think my results are quite on the level of "shit".  Smile


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar - NYCAviation
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar - NYCAviation


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar - NYCAviation



Josh

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 17 guests