flyfisher1976
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm

USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:01 pm

Well I have to thank Fergul for his great workflow. Since I have been using it my acceptance ratio has improved dramatically.

However, there is a problem...

USM! (or my monitor?)

Why is it that my monitor seems to display all images with jaggies before any USM has been applied? I have a very difficult time getting the sharpening just right because I am always starting off with something that already appears to be jagged. Is my monitor too low of a resolution for this type of work even though it was touted as being such high quality (and I paid so much $$)? Most of the time when applying USM I am really guessing at it.

Is my monitor set up wrong?
Is there anything I can do to remedy this?
Does anyone else have a problem with an lcd like this?

Any input or suggestions would be appreciated...I am really getting frustrated. I have a lot of shots that I would like to upload, but am really having a difficult time mastering the USM technique (using any method, including Ferguls')

Please help!

Thanks!
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:21 pm

Joseph, can you link some of the originals so that we can have a look, along with some info, Type of camera and your settings.
Are you filling the frame with the a/c?

Fergul  sun 
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
viv
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:17 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:24 pm

Are you using in-camera sharpening? It's generally not a good idea, because it can cause jaggies before you even start with USM...
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
flyfisher1976
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 1):
Joseph, can you link some of the originals so that we can have a look, along with some info

Sure...Here's one:
http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7987/20051017img2169pvd0yw.jpg
INFO:
Camera ModeI Name
Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT
Shooting Date/Time
10/18/2005 05:52:24
Tv(Shutter Speed)
1/320Sec.
Av(Aperture Value)
F9.0
Metering Modes
Evaluative metering
Exposure Compensation
-1/3
ISO Speed
100
Lens
100-400mm
FocaI Length
100.0 mm
Image size
3456 x 2304
Image Quality
RAW
FIash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF mode
One-Shot AF
Parameters
Tone Curve : -
Sharpness leveI : -
Pattern Sharpness : -
Contrast : 1
Sharpness : 1
Color saturation : 1
Color tone : 0
Color matrix
Color Space
sRGB

Original converted to jpeg and resized to 1024X683. No other processing...
I see uneven lines on top of the right wing, small jaggies on the tail, and around the logo lettering (on my screen).
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:58 pm

Joseph,

For starters, the image is a bit blurred, so USM will only aggravate the quality issues.

As for jaggies, there will always be some, unfortunately. In resizing down (and resampling the image) some aliasing of the pixels will occur at edges, giving the 'stepped' look.

Nothing you can do, and some images are worse than others.


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
MarkJBeckwith
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:09 am

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:59 pm

Looks kind of soft on my screen - I don't see too much in the way of jaggies in this image.

Mark.
One day, I might be good at this...
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:00 am

I don't see any on the tail, except the US logo stripes. The cheat lines you will always get them there. The right wing yes I see a few but again they are small and would be normal for that setup and camera. Not saying that mine is any better, I still get them with my 20D. Jaggies are part and parcel of digital you will never get rid of them and yours are quite normal, well, I mean they are not that bad.

Fergul  sun 
Zambian Airways, Where the Eagles fly free!!
 
YANQUI67
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:57 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:07 am

I noticed your shutter speed is 1/320 that is too low to capture a sharp picture of a fast moving jet. Bump up the speed to at least 1/800 and watch the pictures get sharp. The saturation looks a little high also. I dont think that your monitor is bad. I think you are trying to oversharpen an image that is already too soft to begin with. Hope that helps.
 
Kukkudrill
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:34 am

Flyfisher what sort of monitor have you got? Sounds almost like it's too sharp not the other way round.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:32 am

Hi all,

"I noticed your shutter speed is 1/320 that is too low to capture a sharp picture of a fast moving jet. Bump up the speed to at least 1/800 and watch the pictures get sharp. The saturation looks a little high also "

Sorry, I can't agree with those statements. I, and I am sure many others have got good sharp images at much lower than 1/320!

Secondly the saturation looks great, always nice to see well saturated and vivid colours as opposed to washed out, pale colours although saturation is competely a personal view point

Cheers

Ben Pritchard
 
dc10tim
Posts: 1380
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:21 am

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:55 am

The only place I see jaggies on that image is on the small white line towards the bottom of the fuselage, underneath the rear door. That is most likely as a result of the downsizing and I've certainly seen worse. One way I have found to partially get around the problem is to upload at 1200x800, which doesn't produce the effect to the same extent on resizing.

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
flyfisher1976
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: USM Is Going To Be The Death Of Me...

Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting LGW (Reply 9):

"I noticed your shutter speed is 1/320 that is too low to capture a sharp picture of a fast moving jet. Bump up the speed to at least 1/800 and watch the pictures get sharp. The saturation looks a little high also "

Sorry, I can't agree with those statements. I, and I am sure many others have got good sharp images at much lower than 1/320!

Thank you! I was about to say that...you beat me to it.  Smile

Quoting Sulman (Reply 4):
For starters, the image is a bit blurred

Is it? Keep in mind that no post-processing has been applied.

Quoting Yanqui67 (Reply 7):
The saturation looks a little high also.

I don't see how the saturation could be "off". No adjustments have been made to the image.


----

So how do I distinguish between slightly oversharpened (rejection) and "just right" (accepted)?

If anyone would like to have a go at the image and give me one example of each, be my guest!

Thanks all!

-JD

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