frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:50 pm

Here I am again, as a beginner, asking for good advice.

This close up was first rejected, being too soft:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r.../big/20060104_EIDHC1787netDEF3.jpg

Then I sharpened a bit more and it was rejected, having jaggies:
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r.../big/20060114_EIDHC1787netDEF4.jpg

I am quite sure the screeners are right and doing a great job, and I want to learn how to do it...

What do You recommend?

First a mild sharpening with USM of whole picture?
Then masking and only selective sharpening of certain areas?
Or Fergul's advice of masking out everything but the aircraft and then sharpening in many layers.

Best regards,
Frippe
 
Psych
Posts: 2944
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:03 pm

Hi again Frippe.

I would suggest that you give one pass of USM with settings of 500%, 0.2 and 0, for the whole photo. I often find that with a close up like this the photo can 'take' another USM pass of somewhere around 150%, 0.2 and 0. An alternative that I often use is to stick with the initial pass, and then use the sharpening tool to selectively add a bit of extra sharpening where the photo needs it.

In both your examples above I think the screeners got it right.

As before, if you would like to see an alternate edit, feel free to drop me a line again.

All the best.

Paul
 
dc10tim
Posts: 1380
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:21 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:15 pm

Hi Frippe,

I think the second shot is just slightly oversharpened around the cabin windows and also the harp strings on the logo.

Try the sharpening values Paul has suggested and I'm sure the shot will look fine, as it is nice and crisp and the lighting good.

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:34 pm

Hi again and thanks for good advice!

I have not followed Your recommendation, Paul, and sharpened twice and photo is now uploaded:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/EIDHC1787netDEF5Aug27.jpg

If this is not good enough I will try the second method (selective sharpening in the second run) as the last resort.
Frippe
 
martin21
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 7:52 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:40 pm

Hi Frippe,

I think the screeners are right. But I also think the 3th one is good, it is right in between the 1st and 2nd. I also think that the colors on the 2nd and 3th look better than on the 1st one ! Good luck with these and with your other photos.

Martin21
At 30.000 feet, the sun always shines !
 
frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:56 pm

Sorry, what a mistake in Reply 3. Text should of course read:

I have NOW followed Your recommendation

Please forgive, and thanks again Martin for your input.

Frippe
 
LIPH
Posts: 841
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:26 pm

Accepted or not...great shot...!

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:51 am

Hello again and many thanks to You all for good advice and support.
The photo was accepted today:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/994498/L/
Thanks again to You all who make this such a friendly community,
Frippe
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:58 pm

I'm surprised it didn't get a motive rejection for cutting off the lettering...
 
IngemarE
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:49 pm

As for myself, I'm not bothered with the lettering, since the full name won't be shown anyway.

What I do think is missing is the last wee bit of the exhaust pipe! The engine feels a bit "cut off", if you see what I mean?!
Otherwise a great pic Frippe!!  thumbsup 

/Ingemar
In thrust I trust.
 
frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:57 am

Hello again and thanks for Your input.
I think You have a point here, JeffM. Maybe they found it OK because here in Sweden at least we often shorten the name just to Ryan. Or maybe they just didn't like me to show up the photo again after THREE rejections already.

And Ingemar, you are right in having sharp eyes with the exhaust pipe.

This concerns the first rejection for ANGLE. I had not framed the plane horizontally from the beginning. And by rotating CCW by 1.32 the cropping was extremely tight - remember NO editing with cloning and such cheating. Therefore something had to be cut away.

Next time I have to keep camera better lined up.

Thanks again,
Frippe
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Frippe (Reply 10):
Maybe they found it OK because here in Sweden at least we often shorten the name just to Ryan.

Even if that were the case, you clipped the the back part of the "N". Normally that would get a photo rejected, and as mentioned you cut off the tailpipe too.

Quoting Frippe (Reply 10):
Therefore something had to be cut away.

Strange. So much for consistancy......
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:15 am

Good Lord. I'm just getting into my Digital Rebel and I personally thought both photos were stunning. I saw no difference.

It seems I have a lot to learn.  Sad
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
frippe
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:57 am

Thanks again, JeffM, for your input.

Let me add only that I am quite new to this hobby, having only 50+ photos in the db, most of them side ons or photos showing the whole airplane.

So in many ways I have to learn the hard way from studying accepted photos and from rejections (of which I have many). And especially this is the case for me when I try to take more zoomed in photos or photos with only a part of the a/c.

Therefore I am very glad for what you point out as regular reasons for Motiv or Centering rejections. I simply did not know how important such details were.

Thanks again,
Frippe
 
A388
Posts: 7253
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:21 am

Interesting tips as I also have problems with jaggies sometimes. Please see my photos I've uploaded just now and advice where possible.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/RGM11RCAMSJUL05.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/KZ744FRCAMS030705G.jpg

The find the NCA livery tough to work with. Can anyone give me tips on how to get rid of the jaggies on the livery?

Also, how do you selectively sharpen a photo? I use Photo Shop but can't find the function (?)

If you have any tips please do let me know Big grin

Regards,

A388
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:41 am

Wow, you guys really have exacting standards....
 
A388
Posts: 7253
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 15):
Wow, you guys really have exacting standards....

Hi MarshalN, what do you mean by exacting standards?

Best regards,

Roger
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:00 am

To the layman the difference in these pictures is very minimal
 
jetmatt777
Crew
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 14):

The Sharpening tool is under Filter > Sharpen from the top menu.

-Matt
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
A388
Posts: 7253
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: First Too Soft - Then Jagged. What To Do?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:54 pm

Hi Jetmatt777,

I know the sharpening tool is under Filter but the other members are talking about sharpening a photo in the areas where needed. That's what I meant actually. So far I can only sharpen an entire photo and not part of a photo (a selected area in the photo). Or am I misreading the posts of the other members? Is it possible to select an area of a photo and than sharpen just that area?

In any way, thanks for the tip Matt Big grin

Roger

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