Morvious
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Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:25 am

Hey guys/Girls,

Since this forum has been a great help to me in the past, I still need your help one more time.

I am going to buy me a new lens tomorrow, and did find as many info as I could on the internet.
There is just one source I had to check out, and that was this forum.
I can't make up my mind between the Canon 70-200 F2.8, or the Sigma 70-200 F2.8.
Offcourse I could just ask the seller, but I would also like some of your suggestions.

Both lenses must be good/perfect, but my concern is the price difference.
In Holland, the Sigma is 300€ cheaper then the Canon, SO my question is, has anybody around experienced both lenses, and what do you think?
From the 300€ I could buy a 1.4x converter that could help me when needing a little extra zoom.

Also a question I would like to ask, is what filters you suggest for spotting?
There will be a default UV filter on it, just to protect the lens from scratching, but are there any other filters you would recommend? Did you had any good experience with a filter when spotting? I would like to know that!

I can't just make up my mind,

Thank you for your time!
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
dullesguy
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:51 am

Sorry I havn't tried both lenses..I got to do some shooting with the 70-200 F2.8 IS and man is it sharp! even at full zoom. I'm a firm believer of you get what you pay for..stick with the canon! Plus, if you ever decide to upgrade again down the line having a Canon will sell back just b/c of the name itself.



just my .02

Stephen
"..the joy of the Lord is your strength" Nehemiah 8:10
 
petertenthije
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:59 am

I have had the sigma 70-200 for 2 weeks now. It is NOT very sharp at full zoom. Might be inexperience since as I said the lense is new, but worth considering.
Attamottamotta!
 
timdegroot
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:06 am

I love my 70-200, sharpest zoom I own, even better than the 28-70 2.8 IMO.
There are lots of Canon 2.8s available secondhand. You should be able to get a good copy for around 900 euros.

I'm sure the Sigma is a fine piece of glass too though, but I just like the Canon white Wink

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
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GVerbeeck
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:18 am

The Canon 70-200 2.8 is a great lens; sharpness and contrast at f/2.8 is very, very good and almost doesn't get any better by f/8. It comes very close to my 50mm 1.4, which probably says a thing or two... Note that the 70-200 2.8 is tested to have superior image quality over the 2.8 IS (which you probably won't notice when you're not shooting bricks from a tripod, but anyway...), so at 2/3rds of the price of the IS-version, it's definitely bang for the bucks.

I know some people who own the Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX and I must say the image quality is very good as well, but it suffers a bit from vignetting (when used on a 1.6x crop body, this is no issue), perhaps something to think about...

Giovanni
 
Morvious
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 3):
I'm sure the Sigma is a fine piece of glass too though, but I just like the Canon white



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 2):
It is NOT very sharp at full zoom



Quoting Dullesguy (Reply 1):
just my .02

Your 2 cents are appriciated, thanks for that.. (My brother used the 70-200 F2.8 IS to for the A1 GP. many of his shots were uploaded without editting, very crisp and sharp. Only, the IS lens will be to much)

The dislikes of the canon (IMO) is his white color (attracks to much attention??), and the price. For the rest I did read that it was built strong enough with good materials, while the Sigma has some negative things (Like a plastic filter screw)
I also read that the Sigma was a little soft at 200mm wide open, while the canon performed a little better.

Just looks that the canon is worth the 300€ extra, because I will use it at 200mm a lot.

Peter, Stephen, Tim and Giovanni, thanks for the reply's

[Edited 2006-02-02 21:48:56]
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:54 am

I've heard very good things about both lenses, from what I've read they are equal in all respects. If you go with Sigma, you won't be dissappointed.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
aviopic
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 2):
It is NOT very sharp at full zoom



Quoting GVerbeeck (Reply 4):
but it suffers a bit from vignetting



Quoting Morvious (Reply 5):
I also read that the Sigma was a little soft at 200mm wide open

So far I've only heard from Nikon users that they experienced some minor problems with the Sigma, are you ?

On my D30, 10D and now 20D I have never seen them and even with a 1.4 or 2.0 tc I do not hesitate to use it wide open and/or at full focal length.
Of course in this situation the image will be a bit softer then without but softness is not a problem as long as the focus is correct.

My own experience with the Sigma 70-200/2.8 is very good.
On the other hand both Canon's are very good too and if I had to choose between them I would go for the non (is) version.
It's just a tiny bit sharper(*1 see explanation haha) and it can be used on a tripod.
*1 tested at 1/500s and faster at full focal length where (is) does not play a role. Of course when you shoot at 1/100s and slower the chances are pretty much sure the (is) version will deliver the sharper image not due to better optics but because you got a little helping hand from the electronics.

When I had the chance to compare the Sigma and the Canon side by side I noted that the Sigma had a brighter view finder something I like.
In some situations the Canon might lock faster not because it is faster but because the focus travel distance is divided in two area's by means of a switch(we are talking milliseconds though).
So if you have to focus from near to far the Sigma might be in a status it has to travel more distance on the other hand with the switch in the wrong position on the Canon it might not lock at all ? (did not test this so.....)
Both are build like a tank something I expect from a lens with the given price tag and so dearly miss on my latest "L" the 24-105.

Personally I don't mind to pay an extra 300 bucks as long as the lens is 300 bucks better.
In this case the answer is nope, they are very very close together(mounted on a Canon dslr that is, don't know about Nikon results).
300 bucks for a bit of white paint is to expensive for me. Big grin


Have fun,
Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
JeffM
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:38 am

I have a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and I've used a Canon 70-200 f2.8 and I'm here to tell you...they are not the same. There is a definite difference. Whether or not you can afford the difference is up to you.
 
jay767
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 8):
I have a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and I've used a Canon 70-200 f2.8 and I'm here to tell you

Do you own the old version or the new DG version,I've owned both(using the Dg now) and there is a big difference,I've also own the Canon 70-200 IS version but sold it for a 100-400L,The newer DG sigma is closer to the canon non IS 70-200 than the old sigma 70-200.
 
Danny
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:28 pm

Sigma 70-200 f2.8 is a superb lens. I've been using it for quite a while and I am very happy. Yes Canon is marginally better but I don't think the difference is worth few hundred $ extra. You may want to try some US seller on eBay.
 
aviopic
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting JeffM (Reply 8):
I have a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and I've used a Canon 70-200 f2.8 and I'm here to tell you...they are not the same.

Where did I say they were ?
I've tried to explain the differences the best I can, differences that came
from my own experience while doing a side by side comparison.

If you feel you have to make a statement as you did it would be nice to explain your self, like this it does not add anything to the conversation and won't help anybody to make a choice.

Take care,
Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
JeffM
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 11):
Where did I say they were ?

Where does it say I was replying to you? I was actually responding to the thread starter.

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 11):
If you feel you have to make a statement as you did it would be nice to explain your self, like this it does not add anything to the conversation and won't help anybody to make a choice.

Nor does this rant of yours Willem, relax. It would be nice if made an extra $500 a day, but that ain't happeing either.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 8):
There is a definite difference.

there....that again, is my comment to Morvious.
 
aviopic
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
Where does it say I was replying to you? I was actually responding to the thread starter.

Oepss I am sorry Jeff
I did not mean to be harsh but after a 16 hours working day and investing time to answer a question at 01:30am I found your answer just a little bit disappointing.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
there....that again, is my comment to Morvious.

Still I am interested in the details of your findings Jeff.
Just to satisfy my hunger to understand everything from every different view point which as usual plays havoc with me.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Morvious
Topic Author
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 12):
there....that again, is my comment to Morvious.

I must remember myself of placing my real name on the bottom of a topic  Sad..

Anyway, thank you all from the reply's. I am going to the store tonight, and will fit both lenses on my camera (Eos 300D). Choice will be hard  Smile.

Have a good day all of you!

Stefan van Hierden.
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
Morvious
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:08 am

I went to the store this evening, and had the oppertunity to test both lenses out.
This was an easy descision, because of 2 things.

1: The Canon lens was a little heavier, but felt stronger and better build.

2: The autofocus of the Sigma lens wasn't as fast as the Canon.
With both lenses I changed my point of view in the store. The Canon was able to keep focussed, while the Sigma had to be corrected.

Just lucky I had the chance to use both lenses there.

Thanks you all for your information.

Stefan van Hierden
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
GAWZU
Posts: 195
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:43 am

Hi all,

I've been looking at the Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 of late for my D70. Although a lovely lens to use, I'm finding my current Nikon 70-300mm ED lens too soft above 200mm and I'm thus looking to upgrade. The Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 would be a very nice replacement but is sadly out of my price range, hence turning my attention to the Sigma.

I've read a lot of reviews about the Sigma over the last few months, and although obviously not a Nikkor, I understand it to be a great lens for it's price tag. However, what I'm really interested in is seeing some example shots taken with this lens. Anyone able to post or link to a few shots? Or likewise, any further thoughts on the lens (and in particular, using it with a Nikon body) would be more than welcome - thank you!

Cheers,

Adam, UK
 
Erwin972
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:13 am

I have used the Sigma 70-200 EX for quite a while, with 1.4 and 2.0 teleconvertors. Great lens for a good price.

Browse my pictures from before december 2004 for a few examples.

Kind regards,
Erwin
My gear: Nikon, Sony, Red, Sachtler etc.
 
aviopic
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 15):
1: The Canon lens was a little heavier, but felt stronger and better build.

http://www.sigma-benelux.nl/products/lens/product.php?pid=31
http://www.canon.nl/For_Home/Product...70200mm_f28L_USM/index.asp?specs=1
A little indeed, to be more specific 40 grams Big grin

Quoting Morvious (Reply 15):
The autofocus of the Sigma lens wasn't as fast as the Canon.

Explained in reply 7

Quoting Morvious (Reply 15):
The Canon was able to keep focussed, while the Sigma had to be corrected.

Just out of curiosity could you explain yourself ?

Quoting GAWZU (Reply 16):
Anyone able to post or link to a few shots?

The majority of my photos in the database are shot with exactly this lens.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Morvious
Topic Author
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 18):
Quoting Morvious (Reply 15):
The Canon was able to keep focussed, while the Sigma had to be corrected.

Just out of curiosity could you explain yourself ?

The Sigma lens I tried in the shop could't kept his focus if I was moving around with the point of view I was looking at.
(Simulating moving subjects)

I had to press the release button again half way down to focus again.

Maybe it was the lens I used, but that was my experience in that store.

And thanks for the help, don't get me wrong, the Sigma looked like a fine lens, but Canon felt a little better to buy!

Have a good day,

Stefan van Hierden
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
ua935
Posts: 547
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting GAWZU (Reply 16):
However, what I'm really interested in is seeing some example shots taken with this lens. Anyone able to post or link to a few shots?

Here are a couple of my latests examples:-


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Simon F Gregory
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Simon F Gregory



Regards

Simon

[Edited 2006-02-07 18:13:30]
Live every second like you mean it
 
aviopic
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 19):
The Sigma lens I tried in the shop could't kept his focus if I was moving around with the point of view I was looking at.
(Simulating moving subjects)
I had to press the release button again half way down to focus again.

This is how it is supposed to work Morvious.
When in "one shot AF mode" you have to re-focus by pressing the shutter half way again if you move from one to another object.
In "servo AF mode" you have to keep the shutter pressed half way in order to follow a moving object.
There should not be a difference in this matter between the two.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 19):
And thanks for the help, don't get me wrong, the Sigma looked like a fine lens, but Canon felt a little better to buy!

You're welcome and I wish you success, the Canon is a fine piece of glass and won't disappoint you.

Quoting Ua935 (Reply 20):
Here are a couple of my latests examples

That's some fine shooting Simon, can't think of any lens that would have done a better job  Wink

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
petertenthije
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:30 am

Simon: could you please tell me how much zoom you used? With my sigma I rarely manage to get the background really sharp. Normally I would say it has to do with depth of field, but at 5.6 that should not be an issue? Planes at a large distance end up unsharp as well. At the moment that is the only disappointing bit about my new lense.
Attamottamotta!
 
ua935
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 21):
That's some fine shooting Simon, can't think of any lens that would have done a better job

Thanks very much Willem, I am very pleased with those two although I think the crisp winter alpine air has something to do with it.

Regards

Simon
Live every second like you mean it
 
Morvious
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 21):
There should not be a difference in this matter between the two

That was the problem.. There was a difference with both demo models.
And ps. You may call me Stefan  Wink

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
With my sigma I rarely manage to get the background really sharp. Normally I would say it has to do with depth of field, but at 5.6 that should not be an issue?

You could try to shoot some photo's between 7.1 / 11 in good light conditions!
Playing around with the settings / modes will give you an idea.

Stefan van Hierden
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
petertenthije
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:57 am

Won't 11 affect my depth of field?

Still trying to get a grip on the lense going from 5.6 to 2.8!  Wink
Attamottamotta!
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
Normally I would say it has to do with depth of field, but at 5.6 that should not be an issue?

Well it's not that easy to say.
DOF is the result of "aperture" and "distance or focal length" whether you are using a Canon, Sigma or Okinoki 70-200/2.8 doesn't matter.
F5.6 at 100mm is F5.6 at 100mm give or take a few millimeters.
If morvious tried both lenses indoor DOF is a big factor due to the close distance to any object and F5.6 would certainly result in a very little depth of field, probably centimeters rather then meters.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
With my sigma I rarely manage to get the background really sharp.

Huh ?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders


Looking at this and Simon's examples I don't see a problem.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
Planes at a large distance end up unsharp as well.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders


Sigma 70-200/2.8 + 2.0tc at max range 400mm(640mm crop), F5.6, 1/1000s
No problem what so ever and I am not even using the new DG version.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
At the moment that is the only disappointing bit about my new lense.

I know the feeling Peter as I am disappointed with my brand new Canon 24-105/4L(is).
As I said before in this topic I've heard of these problems before but only when the Sigma was mounted on a Nikon body.
Out of curiosity are you using a Nikon ?

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Morvious
Topic Author
Posts: 637
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 25):
Still trying to get a grip on the lense going from 5.6 to 2.8!

Shooting at 2.8 will soften (blur) your background sometimes even parts of the subject, but will give you a faster shutter speed.
Shooting at 5.6 or above (up to 32 will give you a more detailed background, but will result in a slower shutter speed)

Edit:
As Willem said above, it depends on things. Thats why you have to try things out while playing with it! (Unless you shoot with film  Wink)

Stefan van Hierden

[Edited 2006-02-07 22:06:19]
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 25):
Won't 11 affect my depth of field?

Peter I am getting the feeling that your interpretation of DOF and aperture is the wrong way around.
Large aperture(F2.8) = small dof, small aperture(F22) = big dof.
Still it depends largely on your distance to the subject.
Close range = little dof, long range = big dof.
and then a combination of the two Big grin
b.t.w. there is a DOF indicator on top of your Sigma.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 24):
That was the problem.. There was a difference with both demo models.
And ps. You may call me Stefan

The way you explained it was as it should work Stefan, even a Canon will not focus and/or re-focus by it self.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
GAWZU
Posts: 195
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RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:05 am

Hi all,

Many thanks for all your thoughts, and links to photos. Erwin, Willem and Simon - some nice shots indeed!

One of my biggest gripes with my current Nikkor 70-300mm ED lens is the purple fringing/chromatic aboration (glossary) that it manages to produce the further you get towards 300mm. Check out this for an example, looking closely at the window line and titles on the RHS of the photo -



Any sign of CA with the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8?

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 22):
With my sigma I rarely manage to get the background really sharp. Normally I would say it has to do with depth of field, but at 5.6 that should not be an issue?

Peter, yes it sounds as if you've got your numbers the wrong way round! A small F number (e.g. 2.8) will give you a shallow depth of field (with not much more than the focal point in focus) whereas a larger F number (e.g. 11) will give you a deeper depth of field (with a lot more of the photo in focus). For aviation photography, I find anywhere between 8 and 11 tends to work out very well.

Thanks again for all your replies,

Adam
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3256
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 26):
Out of curiosity are you using a Nikon

no, a canon 10D

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 28):
Peter I am getting the feeling that your interpretation of DOF and aperture is the wrong way around.
Large aperture(F2.8) = small dof, small aperture(F22) = big dof.
Still it depends largely on your distance to the subject.
Close range = little dof, long range = big dof.
and then a combination of the two
b.t.w. there is a DOF indicator on top of your Sigma.

Hmmm, gonna try that next time weather will be OK-ish. Probably next year. Big grin

Thanks for the advice!
Attamottamotta!
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Sigma Or Canon 70-200 F2.8?

Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting GAWZU (Reply 29):
Any sign of CA with the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8?

None, not even the tiniest bit in whatever situation.
Which counts for the Canon just as well.
Note that my comments are about the Canon version of the Sigma, I've zero experience with the Nikon counterpart.

Quoting GAWZU (Reply 29):
One of my biggest gripes with my current Nikkor 70-300mm ED lens is the purple fringing/chromatic aboration

Don't know whether this is an un-worked version of your photo.
If it is it doesn't look to bad, at least a lot better then my.......... not going there again Big grin

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 30):
no, a canon 10D

You should be ok then Peter.
When practicing along RWY24 at AMS try F7.1 and if necessary adjust ISO to get the exposure you want, every lens has a "sweet" spot and F7.1 is pretty much the Sigma's.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist

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