andrewuber
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New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:27 pm

Well I went spotting today with my new 70-200 2.8 IS, and the results were... not bad - but not quite what I expected for a $1,800 lens. I guess it's time to ask for help!

Here are a few samples from today - these are more or less straight out of the camera (except for a crop, resize and a LITTLE tweaking in Capture One). Sorry they are so big (1600 wide), but I wanted to show the grain and fuzz I'm getting with these settings:







I can't figure out how to copy the EXIF data in Capture One, so here is a rundown of the settings portion of it:

Canon EOS 20D
Firmware 2.0.2

EXPOSURE:
Shutter Speed: 1/1600
Aperature: f4.5
Max Aperature: f--
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Mode: Manual
Flash Mode: Flash did not fire
Metering Mode: Pattern
Drive Mode / Self Timer: Continuous
Exposure Compensation: 0.00
Flash Compensation: +2.00
ISO Speed Rating: ISO 100
Focal Length: 200mm
Auto Focus Mode: One Shot
White Balance Setting: Auto
Color Space: sRGB
Subject Distance Range: --
Subject Distance: unknown

File Info:
RAW, 6.585mb
3504 x 2332

I was using IS in mode 1 for all shots, in AF (far) mode. There is no filter on the lens, but I was using the hood.

OK I'm guessing I've got the camera settings all FUBAR, and honestly I still don't have a clue what I'm doing with aperature settings. Does this lens have a "sweet spot" that I should shoot for? Or is it best to try to keep it at 2.8 all the time? Was 4.5 too much?

The EXIF data above is for the UA 733 shot. The other two were had the following differences, all other settings were the same:

The BA 744 shot was at 1/1000, f5.0, focal length 78mm.
The UA 744 shot was at 1/1250, f5.0, focal length 200mm.

I tried a couple shots at f2.8, and got similar results (grainy, etc).

If anyone knows what settings I should use on the 20D, I would GREATLY appreciate it!!! I'm going back to ORD today to go spotting with Syncmaster, and would like to fix these issues before then (if possible!!)

Thanks for your help!

Drew   wave 

Edit: Click on the images to see them full size...

[Edited 2006-04-05 09:28:19]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
sean377
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:36 pm

I think you maybe using the lens at it's softest spot down at 2.8 - 5.0. Most lenses are sharpest around f8 - f11.

Also, do you need IS on with shutter speeds of 1/1600th?

Edit: Where was the sun in relation to you. The photo's appear to be backlit a little!

[Edited 2006-04-05 09:39:01]
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:38 pm

those look like shit  Smile

No need to shoot it so fast and wide...I would be aiming for something around 1/500 and f/8.

Also, it might help if the sun is to your back  Smile
 
viv
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:40 pm

Use a slower shutter speed. This will give you a smaller aperture, therefore greater sharpness and depth of field. Try to keep the aperture around f/7.1 to f9.

With that lens at full zoom and in IS mode you can safely shoot at 1/200th of a second.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
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walter2222
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:46 pm

Hi Drew,

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
I was using IS in mode 1 for all shots

On my lens (100-400mm) the IS mode1 is for steady shots, while the mode2 is for panning shots (I assume you were following the movement of the aircraft). Have you tried the mode2 as well?

I would also change the auto-focus setting to servo AF (I cannot do that on my 300D) since you have a 20D, that works much better for flying aircraft.

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...
 
jay767
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:49 pm

1/1600 sec. is absolutely insane.1/500 for a lens without any IS.
You have IS and could go lower.I turn IS off until I go below 1/400.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Royal I gotta hand it to you, you are full of all that is true but completely useless, and you're damn proud of it. Good job dude!  bigthumbsup 
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
EWS
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Is there any need for that? You started somewhere remember.. when you got your first super dooper lens i bet you had a few crap shots until you got used to it.. give the guy a break.. so nice to see crew members putting folks down..
 
JeffM
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:24 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
Auto Focus Mode: One Shot

Only use that for stationary objects Drew. AI Servo is for moving objects. Also, I agree with Royal, you are way to wide on the aperture for that distance and get your shutter down to around 1/500. I'd like to know how you came to those exposure settings as well.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:37 pm

Lighten up EWS!

I consider Andrew to be a friend, so I don't think I am 'putting him down'

After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!
 
JRadier
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):

After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

Might want to watch out with comments like that......

(especially with Canon's known for less grain then Nikons...)
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
vasanthd
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:34 am

Hi Drew,
Happy Belated Bday!

Quoting AndrewUber (Thread starter):
with my new 70-200 2.8 IS,

I thought you would get a new Wide angle lens...  Smile

Anyways, yea... You seem to use the Manual (M Mode) in your 20D with fixed AV and TV. Change it to AV Mode and let the camera decide what shutter speed is appropriate. the 70-200 2.8L IS is an excellent lens... Narrow the aperture and set the focus point to center with AI Servo and you would see a smile pop up with every photo.

Have fun with your new glass  Smile
Regards,
Vas
One Lucky shot deserves another!
 
mikephotos
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting EWS (Reply 7):
Is there any need for that? You started somewhere remember.. when you got your first super dooper lens i bet you had a few crap shots until you got used to it.. give the guy a break.. so nice to see crew members putting folks down..

That little smiley after the comment says it all. Relax!  Wink

Quoting JRadier (Reply 10):
(especially with Canon's known for less grain then Nikons...)

Yeah, grain might be better at ISO6400 but who here shoots at 6400. That's like shooting approach shots at f4.5 1/1600, who the heck would do that  Wink

Mike
 
vasanthd
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 12):
Yeah, grain might be better at ISO6400 but who here shoots at 6400.
I guess you mean 3200. I dunno if Canon bodies have ISO > 3200...

Regards,
Vas

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:56:12]
One Lucky shot deserves another!
 
mikephotos
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 13):
I guess you mean 3200. I dunno if Canon bodies have ISO > 3200...

I used 6400 as a joke, not meant to be fact  Wink

Mike
 
vasanthd
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 14):

I used 6400 as a joke, not meant to be fact

Stupid me...  boggled   Wink

--Vas
One Lucky shot deserves another!
 
andrewuber
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
those look like shit

Gee Royal, tell me what you REALLY think!  yell 

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
After all, if he would have taken my advice in his last thread, and dumped the Cannon gear for some Nikon kit, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

As I've mentioned, I already have a Motorola camera phone - which is pretty much the same thing.  duck 

By the way folks, it's true - Royal and I are friends (despite his Nikon habit), so these cheap shots at each other are not a problem at all. Besides, he's just jealous (have you garage-saled your nikon shit yet Royal???).

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 11):
I thought you would get a new Wide angle lens...

My 70-200 F4L is on E-Bay as we speak, it ends tomorrow. I plan to cash that in for a 17-40L. The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted, so I went for the big dawg. I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year!  bigthumbsup 

OK regarding the lens issue - I went back and checked my camera settings, and it seems that my "custom functions" were out of whack. The camera was adding in some sharpness, contrast and saturation - which I set back to "zero". Also, I will try AI focus.

As for aperature, I'll try shooting in the 7-9 range, in aperature priority. I guess I always thought that a faster shutter meant sharper pictures. Appearantly I was wrong there!  dopey 

Thank you all for your fast answers, I'll do some shooting today and upload some samples tonight when I return to FWA.

Drew  wave 

I'm kinda surprised Jeff hasn't sounded off to remind me that only amateurs use RAW.... duck 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
philhyde
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:41 am

Drew,

How do the pictures look edited? You can tell a lot from the raw picture from the camera, but let's face it almost all digital pictures need to be edited to some degree.

I concur with the recommendations for the settings. I have just recently switched from AI Focus to AI Servo, and the jury is still out. The biggest thing to get used to in servo mode is that there is no beep when it locks on (although the focus zone flashes).

cheers,
Phil

[Edited 2006-04-05 19:46:21]
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
INNflight
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:19 am

Hey Drew,

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted

And you ended up with a 70-200 2.8???  banghead   cheerful 

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
The camera was adding in some sharpness, contrast and saturation - which I set back to "zero".

These parameters don't have any impact on the file when shooting RAW at all.

I'm sure you'll get happy with your new toy!
cheers,
F.
Jet Visuals
 
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clickhappy
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:26 am

Grain. Such a measurebator term.

How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Anyways it's okay that most of you shoot Cannon. After all, Nikons (like a Girard-Perregaux watch, foie gras, and Chat La Mondotte) are an acquired taste.
 
ake0404ar
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year! bigthumbsup

That one puts a smile of my face.....don't ya'll love those American girls!
It's all about diamands and perls!

VG.

p.s. the 70-200 f2.8 is a killer lens, try aperture prio for a while, f6.3 or f8 and check the results....you should be doing fine then!
 
DLKAPA
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Aviation or otherwise?  Wink
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
javibi
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
My 70-200 F4L is on E-Bay as we speak, it ends tomorrow. I plan to cash that in for a 17-40L. The wife authorized "any lens" I wanted, so I went for the big dawg. I did, afterall, buy her a $3,000 diamond for HER birthday last year!

If you throw the diamond AND wife in the lot you'll probably get enough for a 600mm f4 L, think about it!  devil 

j
 
javibi
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Four out of my five most popular pictures are ISO 800 or 1600  Wink

j
 
JRadier
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Try very low light photography or Theather....
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
Staffan
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
How many of us shoot at more than 800 ISO?

Question you should be asking yourself is how many of you shoot any less than ISO 200  Wink

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Anyways it's okay that most of you shoot Cannon. After all, Nikons (like a Girard-Perregaux watch, foie gras, and Chat La Mondotte) are an acquired taste.

Add some ND filters to that list  Smile
 
andrewuber
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Nikons (like a Girard-Perregaux watch, foie gras, and Chat La Mondotte) are an acquired taste.

Escargot and Haggus are acquired tastes too - and I won't be feasting on snails or lung anytime soon either.  vomit 

Quoting AKE0404AR (Reply 20):
That one puts a smile of my face.....don't ya'll love those American girls!
It's all about diamands and perls!

Let me say two things about her - One she's not about diamonds at all, I just enjoy spoiling her, and Two - she's not even American. In a few months she will become a US Citizen though.

Quoting Javibi (Reply 22):
If you throw the diamond AND wife in the lot you'll probably get enough for a 600mm f4 L, think about it!

A 600mm f4 L won't go down on me whenever I snap my fingers though.

Anyway, I just got home from Chicago and am sorting through a handfull of RAW files as we speak. I wasn't able to do much spotting today, but hopefully next week I will be at ATL!

Drew  wave 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
JeffM
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 26):
I just got home from Chicago and am sorting through a handfull of RAW files as we speak.

Raw is for amateurs..  Wink

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 16):
I'm kinda surprised Jeff hasn't sounded off to remind me that only amateurs use RAW....

Sorry, couldn't resist. I understand why people shoot RAW, don't get me wrong...I just can't stand the extra work, and seldom need the extra lattitude you can draw out of it. When all is said and done, you have a jpeg anyway right?

...Also a member of the "buy the wife diamonds club." I have a few MkII's sparkling on her hands....  Smile
 
andrewuber
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting JeffM (Reply 27):
Raw is for amateurs..

I soooo saw that one coming!!!

Quoting JeffM (Reply 27):
...Also a member of the "buy the wife diamonds club." I have a few MkII's sparkling on her hands....

Way to go Jeff - so I'm not the only one!! Just for that, welcome to my RR list (finally)!
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
JAT74L
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 26):
Escargot and Haggus are acquired tastes too - and I won't be feasting on snails or lung anytime soon either.

Mmmmm..... Haggis!  tongue 

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
 
JRadier
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting JeffM (Reply 27):
Raw is for amateurs.. Wink

Jeff uses Small and normal JPG quality :P
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
JeffM
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RE: New L Glass-But I Need Help With Settings!

Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 28):
Way to go Jeff - so I'm not the only one!!

Heck no, there may be a few others I would hope. I'd pick out the damn things for her myself, it's just she does such a better job.  Wink

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 28):
welcome to my RR list (finally)!

Well thanks Drew, back at 'ya.

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