D L X
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What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:24 am

I'm a little baffled by this rejection. Would you guys mind giving me your critiques? I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...5_DTW_031806_N374NB_DSC_0813_2.jpg

is my personal screening somehow off?
Thanks,

Damon
 
viv
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:26 am

A bit soft, perhaps?
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:38 am

Exposure?

 scratchchin 

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Interpaul
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:06 am

Maybe too grainy?

Jan
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:21 am

Now, my question is, are those guesses at why this shot was rejected, or are you fairly certain?

I just noticed that this was rejected by a screener in training, so the email says "If you have any objections please do not hesitate to use the appeal function linked to lower down." I was pretty sure this shot would get accepted, so I was obviously surprised. I hate that we have to appeal and risk lowering our acceptance rates further like this.
 
viv
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
are those guesses at why this shot was rejected, or are you fairly certain?

Yes and no, respectively.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
flyfisher1976
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:37 am

My guess would be quality.
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 6):
My guess would be quality.

the catch-all rejection.
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

What reason was it?

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
philhyde
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:53 am

I see problems with grain, and a little over-exposure perhaps where the sun is glaring. Quality is not peaking on this example.

However, it is not centered horizontally. So my vote is badcenter.

cheers,
Phil
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
viv
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
I'll let you know the official reasons it was rejected after a response or two.

You have had 10 replies.

Spill the beans!
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Jan Mogren (Reply 8):
What reason was it?

Quality, centering, and grain.

The reason I resisted was because I want fresh opinions, not primed ones. It's easy to say "oh yeah, there's grain" when someone told you it was rejected for grain.

I can't say I understand any of the three.

[Edited 2006-04-15 19:07:10]
 
philhyde
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I can't say I understand any of the three.

Do you see the grain on the right-hand-side engine and underwing (where it is shaded)? Not desireable.

Also, there is more space in the picture in front of the nose than behind the tail. Thus, the badcenter.

Given the brightness of the shot, I would guess this was not taken on a low (e.g. 50-100) ISO setting.

Hope that helps,
Phil
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9VSPO
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 12):
Also, there is more space in the picture in front of the nose than behind the tail. Thus, the badcenter.

I hadn't noticed that but now you point it out it sticks out like a sore thumb. I really respect the screeners for being able to spot things like that. I guess it's easier to spot when you are "in the job".
 

I guess we are looking at the aircraft itself rather than everything else going on in the shot.

[Edited 2006-04-15 19:36:40]
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 12):
Do you see the grain on the right-hand-side engine and underwin

Thanks Phil for your comments.

I see the grain now, but I had to look at it from an inch away from the screen to see it. It's an unfortunate fact of DSLR shooting that there will be noise in the shadows. I shot this at ISO 200 (the lowest on a D70), and since Neat Image is the devil around here, I really don't know what the screeners want us to do.

As for centering, if this is a reason for rejecting, that's very upsetting. The distance from the front of the fuselage to the edge is 0.142, while the distance from the back of the fuselage to the edge is 0.138, according to CS2. If I centered on the end of the horizontal stab, there would be a lot of empty blue to the right, making the whole thing feel like it was leaning left. Honestly, I think a centering rejection is somewhat tacky here.

As for quality... that could be literally anything. Do you have any thoughts on particulars?

Would you like to take a stab at it? I can send you the RAW file if you like.

I know my tone sounds awfully critical in this thread, but want you to know I really do appreciate your help.  Smile
 
C133
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:20 am

If you sharpen on a layer you can then gently (low opacity) erase the sharpening in shadow areas. I've found this helps a lot with minor noise/grain. Or even try the blur tool in the same places.

Terry
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:56 am

Thanks C133. I went back and did that. What do you think of the edit?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/D_L_X/DTW%20Mar18/DTW_031806_N374NB_DSC_0813_3.jpg
 
philhyde
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
As for centering, if this is a reason for rejecting, that's very upsetting. The distance from the front of the fuselage to the edge is 0.142, while the distance from the back of the fuselage to the edge is 0.138, according to CS2. If I centered on the end of the horizontal stab, there would be a lot of empty blue to the right, making the whole thing feel like it was leaning left. Honestly, I think a centering rejection is somewhat tacky here.

Centering is a common reason for rejecting, so you had better get used to it in this playground.

Big version: Width: 976 Height: 651 File size: 472kb
DLX_edit


Here is an edit showing tight cropping, which is normally preferred. I also brightened up the shadows 10%. Finally, 50% USM at 0.3 radius. This is just a quick job, and you should probably re-do the photo incorporating the technique that Terry mentioned.

cheers,
Phil
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9VSPO
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 17):

That's too tight on the nose.  Wink
 
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ptrjong
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:36 am

Hi all,

Sorry Phil, but I don't like that extremely tight crop. In my opinion, the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.
So if Damon's original crop was badcenter at all, it only needs a slight amount of cutting on the nose side, in my opinion.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
flyfisher1976
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 6):
My guess would be quality.



Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
the catch-all rejection.

Would be nice if they could clarify this rejection with more specifics...

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Quality, centering, and grain.

Looks like they already did.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 17):

I don't think it needs any sharpening like you've just done, just very lightly lower the noise in the sky and kick the contrast. Excellent starting point I think.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):
the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.

Absolutely. But it seems that the screeners don't agree, and I feel that our artistic license has been revoked in that respect.
 
philhyde
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):
Sorry Phil, but I don't like that extremely tight crop. In my opinion, the breathing space off the nose should be related to the that off the tailcone, NOT that off the tailplane which can indeed be tightly cropped.
So if Damon's original crop was badcenter at all, it only needs a slight amount of cutting on the nose side, in my opinion.

Yes, I did cut it a bit close on the nose, eh? Anyways, this is a matter of taste to some degree, and illustrates the necessity of centering the subject. I've never had a single rejection for badcenter using this technique.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Phil Hyde



cheers,
Phil

[Edited 2006-04-15 22:05:51]
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ptrjong
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
it seems that the screeners don't agree

Well, sometimes they do.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong

The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
D L X
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:15 am

Just got another rejection. This new screener is killing my ratio. *sigh*
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 16):
What do you think of the edit?

Dirty. 1 cm from the top border. Go up a vertical line from the rear cokpit window and you are there.
Peter
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ptrjong
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:17 am

Phil, our two shots (nice antipodes) prove that, like I've said before, the screeners are usually not harsh in centering issues.

I think the centering rejection for Damon's shot is unusually harsh.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
philhyde
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RE: What's Wrong With This Shot?

Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:06 am

Very nice shot Peter. Based on my experience here, I'd say that screeners most often prefer tight crops. There are always exceptions, as screening is a subjective task. In the case of your shot, there are many other subjects in the field of view that balance the shot. If you asked me, without seeing it first, I probably would have advised to crop yours tight(er) as well.

So, where is there dirt above the cockpit? I don't see it. I see a small fleck above the "n" in nwa, but that could easily be cloned out.

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 543 File size: 556kb
DRX equalized


cheers,
Phil
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