Cruiser
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Heathaze Question

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:03 pm

Hi guys,

As we are getting close to summer, I am beginning to think about the great shots that I will be able to take. I currently have the 70-200F4L lens, and I find that many of my shots are affected by heat haze, especially when the planes are fairly small in the picture. I have been thinking about getting the Canon 100-400L IS, and I was wondering if anyone is having a problem with heat haze?

This may seem like a silly question, and no doubt JeffM will have a smart answer, but I was thinking that the 100-400 would make the planes much larger in the frame, and therefore will not be AS affected by heat haze.

What are people's experiences? Does it help with heat haze, or is it just something that cannot be avoided?

Thanks in advance,
James
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viv
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RE: Heathaze Question

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:07 pm

Everyone has problems with heat haze. A more powerfuil zoom will magnify the haze as well as the aircraft.

There is no cure, by lens, filter, post-processing or voodoo dancing.

In Summer, shoot in early morning or late evening.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Heathaze Question

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:12 pm

The most effective measures to counter heat haze is getting as near to the plane as possible and/or taking shots of aircraft at quite a distance from the ground since it's the heat radiating from the ground that produces the hated heat haze.

Thierry
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linco22
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RE: Heathaze Question

Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Thread starter):
This may seem like a silly question, and no doubt JeffM will have a smart answer,

Come on Jeff?????? lol

My advice, shoot in the morning and late afternoon early evening to avoid heat haze. It cant be fixed or removed in any way

Regards
Colin  Smile
 
Fly747
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RE: Heathaze Question

Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Thread starter):
As we are getting close to summer, I am beginning to think about the great shots that I will be able to take.

Heat haze can affect photos even in winter time. Edmonton is pretty bad for that. Some days there's heat haze even at sub zero temperatures. The difference in temperatures creates heat haze, not only on a hot summer day.

Ivan
 
vasanthd
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:53 am

Always shoot close to the object in a heat haze situation. And nearer to the object does not mean you can satisfy by a longer focal length.

This was taken at 100+deg and as you can see, the heat haze reduces for closer shots...chk the backgroud for amazing killer haze....no way one can shoot long range pics in this situation...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vasanth Dharmarajan



Regards,
Vas
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WhyWhyZed
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:18 am

I was actually thinking of heat haze not too long ago. I know Heat haze is pretty much the difference in two temperatures colliding at ground level. Which made me think.

Would standing up at a higher elevation (the top of a 2/3 story building) be better than standing on the GROUND? You're still standing on something that'd be changing temperatures, but because it's not indefinitely deep like the ground, it should warm up faster, and therefore prevent haze being at that level. Understand what i'm trying to say?

Just my  twocents 

- Jason DePodesta
 
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walter2222
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 6):
Would standing up at a higher elevation (the top of a 2/3 story building) be better than standing on the GROUND?

According to me, it is more dependant in which direction your are shooting. If you are standing on that high building and shooting aircraft on the ground, you will still have trouble with the heat haze (if it is there). On the other hand, when standing on the ground and shooting into the air, there will be less effect... (just my idea, in Belgium we have more problems with the rain  Sad ...).

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 5):
Always shoot close to the object in a heat haze situation. And nearer to the object does not mean you can satisfy by a longer focal length.

...and this is not only true for heat haze, but also for rain, snow, fog, ...

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...
 
philhyde
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Walter2222 (Reply 7):
According to me, it is more dependant in which direction your are shooting. If you are standing on that high building and shooting aircraft on the ground, you will still have trouble with the heat haze (if it is there). On the other hand, when standing on the ground and shooting into the air, there will be less effect... (just my idea, in Belgium we have more problems with the rain Sad ...).

Yes, I would agree. I've found that I have the most problems with distortion from reflected heat waves from the concrete. When taking photographs of planes in the air, this is minimized. So for example, try to take the photograph of the plane on approach or after takeoff instead of on the ground.

cheers,
Phil
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Granite
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:29 am

James

I have the 100-400 and believe me heathaze can be a problem even in April in the north east of Scotland!

I got a nice Airbus CRJ on the runway here a few weeks ago but haze has spoiled it a little. I was planning to capture it landing and wish I did not.

So, in Summer, if I want to capture something nice where heathaze will be a problem, I will go for a landing study.

Regards

Gary
 
bubbles
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:40 am

Hi James,

I am suffering the same problem from last summer. I would agree on what Gary said, quoted below.

Quoting Granite (Reply 9):
So, in Summer, if I want to capture something nice where heathaze will be a problem, I will go for a landing study.

And even for landing shots, you may also need to be careful. Sometimes, from FedEx the landing planes for Runway 05 might have been ruined by heat haze.

Quoting Granite (Reply 9):
heathaze can be a problem even in April in the north east of Scotland!

The situation seems also applicable for Toronto. I have been experiencing this recently, as well.

And I also agree with Viv, about the good time for photography in summer, quoted below.

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
In Summer, shoot in early morning or late evening.

_Hongyin_  wave 
 
9VSPO
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:44 am

We never get heat haze at Blackpool!  Wink  duck 
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Granite (Reply 9):
I got a nice Airbus CRJ on the runway here a few weeks ago but haze has spoiled it a little. I was planning to capture it landing and wish I did not.

What's an Airbus CRJ?  confused 
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
9VSPO
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 12):
What's an Airbus CRJ?

It's one of those Fokker A340 thingy me bobs.  Big grin
 
Cruiser
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:25 am

It's very interesting to read all of the comments posted thus far. I honestly thought it was just a smog related problem in Toronto (and other large cities) during the really warm seasons.

I think that I am still going to go with the 100-400 for other reasons, but I thought that I would ask whether others were experiencing the same problems!

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
WhyWhyZed
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 14):
I think that I am still going to go with the 100-400 for other reasons, but I thought that I would ask whether others were experiencing the same problems!

Great choice. Make sure to let me borrow it for a few shots at the YYZ meet. Big grin

- Jason DePodesta
 
Cruiser
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting WhyWhyZed (Reply 15):

Great choice. Make sure to let me borrow it for a few shots at the YYZ meet.

- Jason DePodesta

Unfortunately I cannot make it to the meet. As well, I will probably order it at the end of May, beginning of June when the paycheques start kicking in. But, I should be out a fair bit this summer, and feel free to try it out!

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
Granite
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:31 am

Hi all

Ooops, my response should have been an Airbus A319CJ  Sad

Regards

Gary
 
JRadier
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 11):
We never get heat haze at Blackpool! Wink duck

Nor you get any noteworthy traffic  Wink
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:45 am

I was shooting at Denham airfield with a 70-200 + 1.4 extender on full zoom. It was very cold (about) 5c with a strong wind but bright sunshine. It was freezing and my hands were numb but i was still getting heat haze from the runway.

Its a pig , and just something we have to deal with when dealing with long focal lengths. As others have said the only way round it is to get near to the aircraft. Or try to avoid to much concret/taxi ways between you and the subject. On a lot of GA strip this is possible due to grass taxi ways. But not the case at a major airport !!  

A good piece of advise is to ALWAYS check your photos on camera using the zoom in facility after the first couple of photos. Then check to see if haze is an issue in the spot you are using. I got caught out once. After 300 photo's in what i thought was perfect weather i got home and noticed the dread haze on many of the straight lines..... I never made that mistake again !!!!

[Edited 2006-04-21 00:48:12]

[Edited 2006-04-21 00:48:57]
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
JayDavis
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RE: Heathaze Question

Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:19 am

Yes Vas, no doubt our killer summers produce LOTS of heat haze at DFW.

Can you believe it has already been 101 and 99 in April at DFW as well?

Goodness, if that is any indication of the summer we are going to have in DFW, I'm thinking about moving north !!  Smile


Jay
 
A388
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Viv (Reply 1):
There is no cure, by lens, filter, post-processing or voodoo dancing.

Hmmm, I thaught the voodoo dance would have done the trick for me. Guess I was wrong, haha Big grin

Quoting VasanthD (Reply 5):
This was taken at 100+deg and as you can see, the heat haze reduces for closer shots...chk the backgroud for amazing killer haze....no way one can shoot long range pics in this situation...

Heey Vasanth, how are ya? Good to see familiar people here again after such a long time. I started talking about heat haze in my other thread at:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...tion_photography/read.main/230499/

My photo got rejected because of bad quality (heat haze) so started this thread. I got the tip to read this thread from fellow member Bubbles (thank again Bubbles). Heat haze appear to be big problem to everybody and there seems to be no way around it!

As suggested above, one way to reduce the effect of heat haze is to get closer to the aircraft which I can imagine. But why would you get closer to the aircraft if you use a long lense (300mm)? Or do you mean close-up photography?

A388  bouncy 
 
bubbles
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:46 am

Hi Roger,

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
thank again Bubbles

You are so welcome!  Wink

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
But why would you get closer to the aircraft if you use a long lense (300mm)? Or do you mean close-up photography?

I think the heat haze problem could be alleviated if you stand closer to the aircraft. Of course, you could use a long lens to shoot the plane afar. But, the heat air between you and plane could generate haze and make the plane look wavy. That's why I think Vasanth said 'closer'.

_Hongyin_  wave 
 
A388
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Bubbles (Reply 22):
I think the heat haze problem could be alleviated if you stand closer to the aircraft. Of course, you could use a long lens to shoot the plane afar. But, the heat air between you and plane could generate haze and make the plane look wavy. That's why I think Vasanth said 'closer'.

_Hongyin_

Hey Bubbles. Now that I think of it again, it makes much more sense now. Thanks  Smile

Roger
 
lasham
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting Cruiser (Thread starter):
or is it just something that cannot be avoided?

Hi James

If its hot then you will also have the problem of high sun with dark undersides too.
I stay away from shooting long range ground shots 9.00-17.00 during the short English summer. I even stop taking all shots during this time due to the toppy sun. Start back in September!

Tony
No sun no fun
 
vasanthd
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:58 am

Hi Roger,
I'm fine... how r ya??

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
if you use a long lense (300mm)?



Quoting Bubbles (Reply 22):
That's why I think Vasanth said 'closer'.

Yeah... Heat hazes are all over the place... including the area between your lens front element and the actual object. Longer the distance more heat haze obstructs the vision path causing the wavy motions... The trick is to reduce the distance between your lens and the object so as to avoid most of the heat haze... So that's why I mentioned closer  Smile

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 20):
Can you believe it has already been 101 and 99 in April at DFW as well?

Jay,
It sure is crazy in DFW. Unpredictable weather around here... tornado's, rain, sunny, cloudy... the only weather element we miss is snow  Smile (Oh yeah... we got the sleet stuff too)

I hit DFW yday eve, I guess for the summer, the best time is 5:30pm to 8:00pm... perfect lighting with absolute no heat haze...

--Vas
One Lucky shot deserves another!
 
glennstewart
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RE: Heathaze Question

Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Thread starter):
This may seem like a silly question

Not really. Ask away!

Quoting Cruiser (Thread starter):
What are people's experiences? Does it help with heat haze, or is it just something that cannot be avoided?

Getting the 100-400 isn't going to help you. Heat haze is just going to be magnified and probably even worse if you're getting aircraft in the distance.

The only way I know to avoid heat haze is to:

a) Don't shoot during hotter months
b) Shoot at colder times of the day
c) Shoot only at aircraft when they're in the sky (*yawn*)

Thankfully tomorrow marks the turning point into winter for us down south. But heat haze shouldn't stop you from enjoying the spotting  Smile

Glenn
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