thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
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NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 6:41 am

Oddly enough I saw this on the IAH Spotters site yet nothing here (unless I did not go far enough back in my search for this story here). While it only effects NJ, it could have a domino effect on to other states, who might enact similar legislation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iahspottersclub/message/26337

Scary stuff.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 6:55 am

Well, that's extreme...

Why don't they just ban TRESPASSING? Oh wait, they already have. Why don't they just enforce TRESPASSING?

I hope this bill doesn't become law in NJ or anywhere else. If you live in NJ, it's time to send a letter. Seriously! Your elected officials will listen.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 7:59 am

It's like anything - you can stick all the laws you want on the statute book but the main points are:

i) whether you can enforce the laws, i.e. have enough resources, etc, and,
ii) whether laws will prevent or deter the behaviour you are trying to curb.

How you prove observation (!) I couldn't say!
 
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Ryan h
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 9:28 am

In my opinion this is a typical American knee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.
South Australian Spotter www.ryanhothersall.net
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 9:47 am

Unlike the BAA authorities at LHR?
More Bad News For LHR (by LHRSIMON May 10 2006 in Aviation Photography)

Let's not make a blanket statement about a given country because a couple of legislators are on a power trip. Hopefully the good people of NJ will bombard their local state representatives in Trenton with with e-mails, letters, phone calls, ect.... opposing this proposed bill.

Thomas

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
In my opinion this is a typical American knee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
Americans have to learn to use their brains.

I'll remember that next time we land on the moon.

Don't forget, photography is Banned at CDG.
 
beechcraft
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 5):
Don't forget, photography is Banned at CDG.

By the way, is there any news from CDG, i thought a group of spotters was in negotiations with the authorities...

However, i didn´t really have a problem i was there last time and i was standing directly in front of a camera...

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
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scbriml
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Beechcraft (Reply 6):
i was standing directly in front of a camera...

I find photography easier from behind the camera. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong. wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
TS
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 7:42 pm

This sounds like a nightmare for all spotters & journalists. I'm not an expert on the U.S. Constitution, but doesn't the 1st amendment grant the right to assemble peacefully & freedom of the press? Could this apply here if the bill is challenged in court?

Thomas
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
D L X
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Thu May 11, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting TS (Reply 8):
doesn't the 1st amendment grant the right to assemble peacefully & freedom of the press?

No. The first amendment protects an action only if it is "expressive" and even then only in limited ways. (Burning a draft card, for example, while clearly expressing a dissatisfaction with the war was still illegal under the first amendment when Congress banned the mutilation of draft cards - the dude was still allowed to stand on a podium and SAY "this war is bad.")

The problem here is that NJ is banning an action, not an expression. Don't worry, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking about ways to attack the constitutionality of this law.
 
wannabe
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Fri May 12, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
In my opinion this is a typical Americanrnknee jerk reaction. Americans have to learn to use their brains.

Ryan,
Without commenting on whether or not I think the proposed legislation is a good idea, let me make several points;
1. This action is be proposed almost 5 years after 9/11. I would hardly call that knee jerk.

2. With regards to our American brains, if I merely use the various winning Nobel Prize categoriesrnover the last 100 years as a simple measurement, the US 100+ to the Australian 7 gives a telling indication of our "brain ability".

3. I daresay that if your Harbor Bridge and/or Opera House had been removed by terrorist actions, there may be a different thought process down under right now.

In any case, we can argue left and right about rights and freedoms, etc, but unless you have been an elected official and have felt the weight of responsibility of protecting the people as a whole, I don't think you can entirely understand why a politician would propose something like this. Just looking at the second guessing that is still occurring in London over the train bombings (todays news) is a good indication as to why these kinds of proposals will continue to surface. No politician or civil servant wants to be the face on the front of tomorrows paper with the question of "Why didn't they protect us?" below it.

Bottom line; let's not allow this to get into a country bashing rant. It doesn't accomplish anything, and the issues being discussed are well beyond individual country borders.
 
martinairyyz
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Fri May 12, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Ryan h (Reply 3):
Americans have to learn to use their brains.

At times as this, and many others, yes..... Spreading fear among the public and using useless measures to combat the "terrorists".....
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
phl27rphotog
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RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Fri May 12, 2006 9:07 am

Good news for now, thanks to news media and other groups complaining the New Jersey legislature shelved the bill. That likely means it's dead. Looks like it's safe to keep shooting in NJ (Like you can shoot at EWR and TEB without hassle anyway).
BillShullPhotography
 
thomasphoto60
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: NJ Shooters, Your Days Might Be Numbered!

Fri May 12, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting PHL27RPhotog (Reply 12):
Good news for now, thanks to news media and other groups complaining the New Jersey legislature shelved the bill. That likely means it's dead

Indeed, great news!

Quoting PHL27RPhotog (Reply 12):
ooks like it's safe to keep shooting in NJ (Like you can shoot at EWR and TEB without hassle anyway).

Perhaps, but at least you won't be locked away for 18 months for taking a picutre of an airplane, dam, power plant, ect....

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"

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