b764
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:49 am

Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:12 pm

BNSF railroad just announced they need rail fans help in keeping BNSF rails safe. They allow you to register as a rail fan and you will recieve an ID. Now only if the FAA, Local Police, etc. would see that we aviation spotters could do the same. We must do something, I for one am tired of looking over my shoulder for some type of agency to come and question me like I'm a terrorist. Any ideas on were we can go from here?

http://www.bnsf.com/media/news/articles/2006/06/2006-06-07a.html
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 2):
There are plenty of places to go around Logan Airport in Boston, for example, that are not on airport property and allow hassle-free photography.

I guess a definition of "hassle free" would be in order. I've never had any issues at Castle Island, Winthrop or Constitution Beach. But I've certainly heard stories of those who have.
 
flyfisher1976
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 8):
I guess a definition of "hassle free" would be in order.

I've been stopped twice at Castle Island, both times by undercover/off-duty police officers. Both times they were courteous and I proceeded without incident. They merely wanted to know what I was doing. Once I explained, they were fine with it. The people who are getting in hot water over this seem to be the ones making a production or show out of their presence by getting out of their car where they shouldn't, or just drawing attention to themselves. Generally speaking, if you play it smart, you should never have a run-in with authorities. If you do, simply explain what you are doing...usually that's all it takes.
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 9):
Generally speaking, if you play it smart, you should never have a run-in with authorities. If you do, simply explain what you are doing...usually that's all it takes.

That's good to know. BOS has gotten a lot of bad press, but like I said, I've not had issues there. In fact, I've had some nice conversations with some of the local residents while shooting in Winthrop and Constitution Beach. The one time I shot from the Terminal B garage was one of the more tense photography expeditions I've made (I wanted to catch the Spirit of Delta 767) but if I'd gotten in trouble it would have been my own fault. Again, no problems - I did the old "grab and dash" method of photography for the one flight I photographed.
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Flyfisher1976 (Reply 12):
No, it means conducting your business in a discreet way as to not draw attention to yourself. Don't advertise what your doing and you shouldn't have a problem.

Exactly. And had I been questioned by the authorities and asked to leave, I would have done so with absolutely no argument. That said, the signs in the Terminal B garage don't state that photography is illegal. They state that use of the facility is limited to patrons of the garage. My car was parked in there, and I paid a pretty penny for the privilege - that makes me a patron of the garage.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:59 am

I think the main difference between railroads and airports and the main reason why it isn't needed in aviation is that railroads have thousands of miles of mostly unsecured track. It adds to the security of their system. I don't think this program is meant to cover switching yards or terminals which already have security. The aviation equivalent would be to say here's your ID so that you can help watch out for threats to our planes while they're in route. Airports are very secure well protected areas to begin with. The benefit to the airport from such a program is very small (if any) and it may open an avenue for terrorists to infiltrate without suspicion. The only ones benefiting very much would be the spotters. As I see it, no one with the authority to do so will allow a program like this in aviation.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
TomTurner
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:14 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 21):
Airports are very secure well protected areas to begin with.

Not really... Theres miles of chain link fences that can be plowed over by a truck or car.

The passenger terminals are well secured of course, but thats only part of the airport.

Tom
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting TomTurner (Reply 26):
Not really... Theres miles of chain link fences that can be plowed over by a truck or car.

And do you really think that they wouldn't know immediately. There are sensors along the perimeter of airports that detect these type of breaches.
Go ahead and try it. You won't get very far.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
DB777
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 27):
There are sensors along the perimeter of airports that detect these type of breaches. Go ahead and try it. You won't get very far.

I've never heard of sensors along fenced perimeters down here in South Florida. MIA had so many cars crash through the fence from drunks or accidents that they installed miles of concrete jersey curbs just inside the fence to keep the vehicles out. A drunk with an aviation background crashed through the fence at FLL at night and no one noticed until he drove out on the runway, at which time he realized where he was so he escaped by driving through the fence again. They caught him only because he stopped somewhere in the vicinity to check out the damage to his car. And he was certainly not the first drunk to gain access to an airfield down here because there have been numerous other incidents over the years.

If ordinary drunks in ordinary sedans can penetrate chain link fences then the bad guys in giant SUV's or trucks can surely do it.


D
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
TomTurner
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:14 am

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:38 pm

It was only about a year or so ago some boaters came up on the bank of the bay at JFK and walked alongside the runway for some time until they were noticed.
(or was it that they were never noticed until they sought assistance getting out of the airport? can't remember).

Anyway, Cargo still largely unscreened?... illegal aliens employed at airports commonplace.... etc. etc..

Of course, its all relative... airports can't be fortresses.

T
 
joffie
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:45 pm

RE: Airlines, FAA, Local Police Need To Wise Up!

Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:24 pm

Interesting thread.

Did you know here in Melbourne, Australia, if you want to take photos of trains you are supposed to apply for a permit. It lasts for a month but does not cost anything.

However this has no legal basis.

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