aero145
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Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:56 am

Hello guys.

As the Canon 100-400mm lense is now getting old, and has an old stabilizer, do you think Canon will come up with a f/2.8 version of the lense? The 100-400 is very bulky, and I'm wondering if a 2.8 version would be too big to be handhold. I'm thinking about this lense in the future; would the f/2.8 turn out to be too big and too expensive (also heavy)?

Could the lense geniuses tell me something about f/ versus size?

Thanks!
David  

PS: Sorry if this title is too attention making.

[Edited 2006-06-29 21:56:29]
 
timdegroot
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:12 am

100-400 2.8L IS? Keep on dreaming Smile

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:13 am

First of all in order to stay f/2.8 through the entire range wouldn't the lens have to stay one length, ala abandon the push-pull and make it similar to the 70-200?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
aero145
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:31 am

I think so, yes. But does that mean that the lense will be smaller than for example f/1.4-f/4?

-David
 
mikephotos
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 2):
First of all in order to stay f/2.8 through the entire range wouldn't the lens have to stay one length, ala abandon the push-pull and make it similar to the 70-200?

No, at least it hasn't in the past. Nikon had a 80-200/f2.8 that was push-pull.

The Nikon 200-400/f4 is roughly $ 5,099.95. I could imagine what a (Canon or Nikon) 100-400/f2.8 would cost.

Mike

[Edited 2006-06-29 22:34:57]
 
INNflight
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 3):
f/1.4-f/4?

Wat?

 Wink

F.
Jet Visuals
 
IL76
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:42 am

Oh the joy of youth. So fresh and naive... Not afraid to ask silly questions.
E

Quoting Aero145 (Thread starter):
The 100-400 is very bulky, and I'm wondering if a 2.8 version would be too big to be handhold.

Imagine a lens like the 100-400, twice as long, a diameter of 20cm, weighing 20kg costing $20.000. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes.
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:58 am

I just want any L glass at f2.00 above 135 mm. That would make me happy.........

Oh it also needs to be sold at a price at about £1000.00 so i dont have to sell a kidney !!!!!!
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
IngemarE
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Imagine a lens like the 100-400, twice as long, a diameter of 20cm, weighing 20kg costing $20.000. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes

Aren't you exagerating a little bit!?  Confused
15cm diameter and about 12kg's would do I think!  cheeky  Big grin

Quoting LHRSIMON (Reply 7):
Oh it also needs to be sold at a price at about £1000.00 so i dont have to sell a kidney !!!!!!

Who said it has to be your kidney/s!?  mischievous 
In thrust I trust.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting IngemarE (Reply 8):
Who said it has to be your kidney/s!?

Maybe because all of the other parts are worthless  Wink (sorry, had to  Smile)

Mike
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is U

Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Oh the joy of youth. So fresh and naive... Not afraid to ask silly questions.

Silly answer, especially for you, Ed.
Joy of youth. No, I am not really enjoying it.
Not afraid to ask silly questions. (Why should I be afraid of that???) Silly for you, not silly for others. I'd love to see your face when Canon comes up with a f/2.8 version of the 100-400, very sharp, only $1500. I'm not saying they WILL come with that lense, but not think you would be disappointed with a 2.8 version of the 100-400. F/4.5-5.6 is all right, but isn't it nice to have a zoom lense that reaches the Canon 400mm f/2.8L?

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Imagine a lens like the 100-400, twice as long, a diameter of 20cm, weighing 20kg costing $20.000. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes.

Is 100-400 f4.5-5.6 10 kgs? Or even 5kgs?

-David

[Edited 2006-06-30 02:16:32]
 
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GVerbeeck
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Aero145 (Thread starter):
I'm thinking about this lense in the future; would the f/2.8 turn out to be too big and too expensive (also heavy)?

...you'd better start weightlifting now  Wink
 
aero145
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is U

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:55 am

Why starting, when I'm started??? Wow!

-David

PS: When I tried the 100-400 last December, it was much heavier than my 75-300mm lense, but still not as heavy as I imagined. Don't think that I can't carry the 100-400 for a day at Heathrow...

[Edited 2006-06-30 03:56:43]
 
andrewuber
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Oh the joy of youth. So fresh and naive... Not afraid to ask silly questions.

Way to go Ed. I'm sure a lot of folks will feel comfortable asking questions around here after reading your post. Great job encouraging people.  sarcastic 

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Imagine a lens like the 100-400, twice as long, a diameter of 20cm, weighing 20kg costing $20.000. I'm sure it'll sell like hot cakes.

He actually asked if it would be too big and heavy. A simple "Yeah" would have been appropriate.

Give the guy a break. No need to try to make him look like an idiot - bashing him only makes YOU look like an idiot.

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
glennstewart
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:04 pm

Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM....

I'm dreaming right now. Unfortunately I have neither the budget, nor arms big enough to carry this non-existent lens.
But I can keep dreaming  Smile

Glenn
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
AirSpare
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 5):
Quoting Aero145 (Reply 3):
f/1.4-f/4?

Wat?

Some zoom lenses will not have the same speed at all focal lengths. I have no Canon glass so I can't comment further on the lens.

cheers~md
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
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JeffM
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Imagine a lens like the 100-400, twice as long,

That's a pretty silly response...a lens twice as long as a 100-400mm would be a 200-800mm lens. Duh.

Remember what focal length is??
 
aero145
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 14):
Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM....

I'm dreaming right now. Unfortunately I have neither the budget, nor arms big enough to carry this non-existent lens.
But I can keep dreaming Smile

Glenn

 checkmark 

Quoting JeffM (Reply 16):
That's a pretty silly response...a lens twice as long as a 100-400mm would be a 200-800mm lens. Duh.

Remember what focal length is??

 Smile  Wink  checkmark 

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 13):
Give the guy a break. No need to try to make him look like an idiot - bashing him only makes YOU look like an idiot.

Thanks for this, Andrew.

Regards,
David

PS: Sorry for a low-quality post.
 
glennstewart
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Thread starter):
Could the lense geniuses tell me something about f/ versus size?

I think size sometimes comes down to genes.... and I so lucked out.

But seriously....I wouldn't mind knowing the technical reason either for lens size versus aperture.
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
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JeffM
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 18):
....I wouldn't mind knowing the technical reason either for lens size versus aperture.

$$
 
IL76
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Glennstewart (Reply 18):
But seriously....I wouldn't mind knowing the technical reason either for lens size versus aperture.

Devide the focal length by the size of your lenscap and you'll find a number pretty close to the max aperture. (Yes I was exaggerating in my previous reply. I tend to do that when I get questions like: "Can a future Hummer do 100 miles to the gallon?" and stuff like that)
 
ChrisH
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:00 pm

I've been wondering why a 600mm lens isn't 60cm+ long. Any ideas? I know canon has that DO tech... but Nikons normal 600mm is 43cm long for instance.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
Stealthz
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 21):
I've been wondering why a 600mm lens isn't 60cm+ long. Any ideas?

This is likely to be an oversimplification and some boffin may correct the details..

Basically a lens with a focal length of 600mm will require only a single(the front) element to focus a point source of light on a plane 600mm away(remember the magnifying glass you used to burn holes in paper as a kid?).

The other elements in a lens are used to further correct the light path to make the lens shorter and more compact.
Oh yes, as I said that is a gross oversimplification and photography is not about point sources of light so it is somewhat more complex than this!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
viv
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 4):
The Nikon 200-400/f4 is roughly $ 5,099.95.

Could you tell us the EXACT price? (Just joking).

Seriously, such a lens would be very bulky, very heavy, and very expensive. I doubt that it will ever be developed.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
dullesguy
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:32 pm

on a side note..what modifications do you think will be made to the 100-400L IS lense in the future?
"..the joy of the Lord is your strength" Nehemiah 8:10
 
mikephotos
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Viv (Reply 23):
Could you tell us the EXACT price? (Just joking).

Sorry, can only give you a rough estimate  Smile

Mike
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Aero145 (Thread starter):
The 100-400 is very bulky, and I'm wondering if a 2.8 version would be too big to be handhold.

Well, considering the f/2.8 version of the 400mm at 11.7 lbs is roughly four times as heavy as the f/5.6 versions (prime at 2.8 lbs & 100-400mm at 3.0 lbs), my gut tells me that the bulkiness of such an unassisted hand-held lens would almost certainly be out of the question for most shooters taking a few shots, let alone to be used on an entire day trip!

But hey, if you think you can manage:



 Big grin
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
aero145
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:51 am

 rotfl 

I remember this scene!  Smile

What do you think of Canon EF 100-400mm f/2.8 DO IS USM?  Wink

-David
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 16):
Remember what focal length is??

the length between the front element and the focal point?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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rg828
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:23 am

Was'nt there talk of a 500mm f2.8 some time ago?

Did'nt Canon develop a 28-135 f2.8 as well, apparently it was the size of a 300mm 2.8. They built a prototype and all, but did not release it.

I wish Canon could develop f5.6 versions of their long lenses, 500/600mm, even with EF-S mount.

In the past Nikon and Canon made lenses in the 120-600mm/200-600mm range, it would be great if they re-issued newer versions of them.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
aero145
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:42 am

Why EF-S mount? So fewer camera owners can use the lenses?

-David
 
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rg828
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 30):
Why EF-S mount? So fewer camera owners can use the lenses?

Why not? Whats the point in making cameras with EF-S mounts if you dont make lenses for them in every focal range?
Despite the now affordable Canon full-frames, the XT/20D/30D market is large, and slowly they are putting out more dedicated EF-S lenses.
I'm quite sure an EF-S telephoto would be a hit.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is U

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:23 am

If an EF lens can be mounted on 20D, 20Da, 30D, DR XT and DR, then why not making it for ALL EOS cameras?

-David
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 27):

What do you think of Canon EF 100-400mm f/2.8 DO IS USM?

Because Ultra-Low Dispersion is better than Diffractive Optics.

Quoting RG828 (Reply 31):
Why not? Whats the point in making cameras with EF-S mounts if you dont make lenses for them in every focal range?

Because any lens with an EF-S mount can take any EF lens.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
OD720
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:24 pm

The closest lense to the one you want is the Sigma 120-300 f2.8 and that's one heavy lens even without the IS.

I don't know how the optical engineers will be able to make such a lense that would be able to sell on the market at some reasonable price.
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 33):
Because Ultra-Low Dispersion is better than Diffractive Optics.

I asked: "What do you think of Canon EF 100-400mm f/2.8 DO IS USM?"
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting OD720 (Reply 34):
I don't know how the optical engineers will be able to make such a lense that would be able to sell on the market at some reasonable price.

Then, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk to Jeroen Hribar?  Wink
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 35):
I asked: "What do you think of Canon EF 100-400mm f/2.8 DO IS USM?"

And he answered: An Ultra-Low Dispersion ("L" glass) model, which was originally suggested in the thread, would be better than a Diffractive Optics ("DO") model...
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is U

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:58 am

I asked: "What do you think of Canon EF 100-400mm f/2.8 DO IS USM?"

He didn't answer my question. He only said that the UL dispersion glass is better than the Diffractive Optics, I know that, but I asked what he thinks about the DO.

I see that he doesn't like the idea, so this discussion is closed.

Let's go again to the 100-400 2.8, or close the thread.

-David
 
jhribar
Posts: 113
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 36):
Then, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk to Jeroen Hribar?

Hi David,

sorry but I'm not a Canon insider, so I can only guess...

My guess is that a 100-400L 2.8 will not be on the market for a while.
Maintaining a fix aperture of 2.8 over a range this big, will be a tough job for the designer.

Lens aberations have to be minimized for 100 to 400 mm but also for F/2.8 up to F/8 (smaller stops are usually less critical altough the diffraction limited performance will be influenced of course)

To minimize aberations the designer can use numerous types of glass. Most lens elements will be spherical, sometimes an asperical "correction" element is used to balance the system. In the complete system some lens elements with high dispersive glass types will be used. Also extremely low dispersive glass types will be used together with it to balance the overall system performance. In some cases DOE's will help to shrink the system a bit (a series of elements can sometimes be replaced by a single diffractive optical element).

Anyway, I think the price tag belonging to a lens of this caliber will not be economically viable (unfortunately).

rgds,

Jeroen
AirTeamImages
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:32 am

Thanks Jeroen, let's close this thread.

-David  Smile
 
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paparadzi
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:41 pm

I'd be happy with a Canon EF 200-400 f/4 IS at the size / price of the current 100-400 or 70-200 f/2.8 IS.
Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:07 pm

Haha.  Smile

If the 100-400 2.8 doesn't come, I hope the 100-400 f/4 L IS USM will come.

-David
 
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JeffM
Posts: 7569
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RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 42):
I hope the 100-400 f/4 L IS USM will come.

Not likely either. Too much expense for too little gain.
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Lense Thoughts: Canon EF 100-400mm F/2.8L Is USM

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:26 am

OK Jeff. It'll be like it is then.  Smile

Regards,
David

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