LHRSIMON
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LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:50 pm

"A major terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight has been disrupted by police, Scotland Yard says.
It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled on board aircraft in hand luggage. "During the night, police arrested a number of people in London after a counter-terrorist operation they said had lasted several months. Police believe the attacks would have been particularly targeted at flights from the UK to the US.The Department for Transport said security at all UK airports has been increased.Passengers on all flights will not be allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK.Only the barest essentials - including passports and wallets - will be allowed to be carried on board in transparent plastic bags. "



Well due to the above LHR is at a complete standstill. Anyone thinking todays a good day to come to LHR to take a few photo should very much think again..... Be sensible out there !!!!
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
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ThierryD
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting LHRSIMON (Thread starter):
Passengers on all flights will not be allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK.Only the barest essentials - including passports and wallets - will be allowed to be carried on board in transparent plastic bags.

So much as to winning the war on terror!  Yeah sure

How far are we really ready to go to create the illusion of 100% security!?  expressionless 

Thierry
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jorge1812
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:29 pm

The end of inflight pics?

Georg
 
scottieprecord
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:07 pm

With US terror levels at Red/Orange... I have a feelings it's not good to go spotting anywhere in the US as well. I was planning on catching some early morning departures out of SAT in about an hour, but there's no way I'd head out there now.

I'm expecting a significant drop in uploads for at least the next week...  Sad

-Mike
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:15 pm

The UK level has been reported as being raised to the highest level "CRITICAL" !!!!!!!!  Sad

I had planned to visit LHR on saturday but have decided to give it a miss as the security will have enough to deal with already.
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mdwalkman
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:42 pm

Problem with Myrtle Av too??  Confused
Please excuse my poor English.
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:56 pm

I cannot see Myrtle being a problem as its one of the very few spots thats not on privite land (as its a public park) . Anything on the perimiter or centre area will be another story though !!!  Sad
Canon 1D Mk III,Canon 20D+17-40 L f4.0,70-200 L IS USM f2.8,400 L USM f5.6,135 mm L f2.0, 50 mm f1.8,1.4 x II extender
 
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eksath
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Mdwalkman (Reply 5):
Problem with Myrtle Av too??  

Look...if security level is "critical" why would you want to go further contribute to the number of op sec variables by being the lone cameraman on the street under the flightpath during this period? take a break and go about spotting when things settle down. There is no reason to test the authorities and -frankly- they will win everytime.

If they are so security concious as to not allow carry on luggage, they must have one hell of a just cause. I just find the hassle of this scenerio not worth the shots i could generate from a location that has been quite well overfished in the database.

just my 2 cents.
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LGW
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:27 pm

I say we all change our life because of a few cowards who want to cause mass injury and death to civilised Western nations and their citizens; of course not, yes it may be seen as an unwanted distraction for the authorities to have photographers/spotters at airports but life must go on, be sensible, don't go climbing trees in obscure areas or get shirty if the authorities question you or request you move on.

We are can be an asset to the authorities, being eyes and ears, afterall there are signs at BAA airports asking enthusiasts to be the eyes and ears and report anything unusual to the authorities.

I am sure the authroties would ideally prefer we all stay away from airports but my view is that as long as you stay in main, obvious areas and do as requested by the authorities there shouldn't be a big issue.

Ben
 
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ThierryD
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting LGW (Reply 8):
I say we all change our life because of a few cowards who want to cause mass injury and death to civilised Western nations and their citizens; of course not, yes it may be seen as an unwanted distraction for the authorities to have photographers/spotters at airports but life must go on, be sensible, don't go climbing trees in obscure areas or get shirty if the authorities question you or request you move on.

We are can be an asset to the authorities, being eyes and ears, afterall there are signs at BAA airports asking enthusiasts to be the eyes and ears and report anything unusual to the authorities.

I am sure the authroties would ideally prefer we all stay away from airports but my view is that as long as you stay in main, obvious areas and do as requested by the authorities there shouldn't be a big issue.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Thierry
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LHRman
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:52 pm

I phoned my local SEN to check if its ok to be around the airport getting pic's in the current situation and they said it was fine. Looks good for me, maybe not for my camera equipment on my visit to Greece a week on Friday.

Dave P
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LGW
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting LHRman (Reply 10):
maybe not for my camera equipment on my visit to Greece a week on Friday

Ouch! How will you get round it if the ban on non-essential hand baggage is still in place?

Ben
 
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ThierryD
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting LGW (Reply 11):
How will you get round it if the ban on non-essential hand baggage is still in place?

Check-in baggage. Just make sure it's well packed so that it won't be damaged enroute.

Thierry
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lasham
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:28 am

Hi

And just to make things worse they are about to put gates in at the white huts on 27R. So no way of parking for a quick 27R ARR shot! Shame as have used this spot for years (BA Tridents by the shed load)

But not one to give up just need to go and buy a bike!

Tony
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manc
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:33 am

Tony if you do I'll bring mine and give you a race!!  Wink
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lasham
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Manc (Reply 14):
Tony if you do I'll bring mine and give you a race!!

Your on but I will win as your big fat lens will slow you down!

Tony
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cosec59
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting Lasham (Reply 15):
Your on but I will win as your big fat lens will slow you down!

It's his big fat wallet that will slow Ian down  Wink
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manc
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:41 am

Well, Phil I'm not going to mention what will slow you down lol! but u have the solar panel on top so you have the advantage!!  Wink
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dc10tim
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:08 am

I don't see any reason for doing anything differently to any other day. Photographing aircraft is NOT a crime and I'm damned if I am going to let Islamic crackpots alter my way of life.

To busy working at the min to get to the airport anyway  Sad

Regards,

Tim.
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cosec59
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 18):
To busy working at the min to get to the airport anyway

Shame those in High Wycombe aren't as concientious as you
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Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 18):
I don't see any reason for doing anything differently to any other day. Photographing aircraft is NOT a crime and I'm damned if I am going to let Islamic crackpots alter my way of life.

The way I see it is just stay away for a few days. The police already have enough on there plate at the moment without moving on photographers.

We all know it's not a crime, but if they've been told to move people along who are loitering near the airport, then just co-operate.

I know at my place of work today, we had heightened security everywhere. We all had to leave mobile phones, key's with electronic fob's. Also, no bag's of any sort are permitted airside. In my department, we also had 2 Armed Police at all times guarding the place and looking after inbound / outbound passengers.

Just give it a few days, maybe a week, then we should be ok.

Simon.
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dc10tim
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 20):
We all know it's not a crime, but if they've been told to move people along who are loitering near the airport, then just co-operate.

Why if I'm just minding my own business? That is letting them win.

I can't help but feel that a lot of this heightened security (not at airports, but elsewhere) is a nonsense. I saw the most futile sight of my whole life tonight walking through Sheffield train station, where there were literally hundreds of staff checking everyone had a ticket before letting them on the platform. Pointless.

I'm sorry but days like today when everyone gets a little overexcited frustrate me. Well done to the Police and MI5 for foiling the attack though.

Tim.
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Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 21):
Why if I'm just minding my own business? That is letting them win.

I can't help but feel that a lot of this heightened security (not at airports, but elsewhere) is a nonsense. I saw the most futile sight of my whole life tonight walking through Sheffield train station, where there were literally hundreds of staff checking everyone had a ticket before letting them on the platform. Pointless.

I'm sorry but days like today when everyone gets a little overexcited frustrate me. Well done to the Police and MI5 for foiling the attack though.

But the thing is Tim, the element of risk is still there. The moment someone let's there guard down - they could attack.

We're not letting them win, all I'm saying is co-operate for a few days. Then hopefully, thing's will blow over.

Afterall, today wasn't a normal security alert, we're talking a huge risk.
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NIKV69
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
So much as to winning the war on terror!

Did you read? The plot was foiled so someone did something right and we did happen to win this battle.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
How far are we really ready to go to create the illusion of 100% security!?

Nobody believes that. Anyone with half a brain knows there is no such thing. There are many people working hard to keep us as safe as we can be. Thankfully this plot was prevented from being successful.

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 21):
Why if I'm just minding my own business? That is letting them win

 checkmark 

If the wx is nice I am going shooting at JFK this Sunday afternoon. I refuse to change my plans and life around for these people. That is what they want. I am not going to oblige them.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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ThierryD
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
So much as to winning the war on terror!

Did you read? The plot was foiled so someone did something right and we did happen to win this battle.

DID YOU read? My statement was given on the quote that no handluggage was permitted on UK flights anymore; even if this is just a temporary measure it still takes away some more freedom from the air traveller and thus constitutes a win for the terrorists.

Thierry
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cosec59
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Did you read? The plot was foiled

The security forces are saying the plot has been disrupted not foiled. Which should be a concern to us all
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NIKV69
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 24):
My statement was given on the quote that no handluggage was permitted on UK flights anymore; even if this is just a temporary measure it still takes away some more freedom from the air traveller and thus constitutes a win for the terrorists.

I did read. Hey we are at war here buddy. We have to do certain things in crucial times to stop these maniacs. It's not the end of the world if you can't carry something on the plane for a period of time. Deal with it. We know by caving into these fear mongers they win but sometimes you got do certain things. I doubt this will be permanent so stop the propaganda already.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Did you read? The plot was foiled so someone did something right and we did happen to win this battle.

Did you read? The risk is still there, the plot hasn't been foiled at all.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
cosec59
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 27):
The risk is still there, the plot hasn't been foiled at all.

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 25):
the plot has been disrupted not foiled.
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dc10tim
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 27):
Did you read? The risk is still there, the plot hasn't been foiled at all.

Simon, the threat remains and will remain for decades, but what are we to do?

The only effect on people's lives as a result of the IRA, I remember from growing up in the 1980s, was the lack of litter bins on railway stations.

The sooner people get real the better, and being at an airport perimeter fence with a camera makes a big fat ZERO difference to how secure the aircraft are.

Tim.
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cosec59
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 29):
and being at an airport perimeter fence with a camera makes a big fat ZERO difference to how secure the aircraft are.

I disagree. The likelyhood is that that person with the camera is an aviation enthuisiast (planespotter) so therefore will be keeping an eye out for anything out of the norm.
Now if only the authorities could see things that way
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dc10tim
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:28 am

Sorry - the point I was making is that aircraft are certainly no less secure by an enthusiast being there.
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scbriml
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 18):
I don't see any reason for doing anything differently to any other day. Photographing aircraft is NOT a crime and I'm damned if I am going to let Islamic crackpots alter my way of life.

I agree wholeheartedly.  yes 

However...

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 20):
The way I see it is just stay away for a few days. The police already have enough on there plate at the moment without moving on photographers.

Absolutely right! checkmark 

Why cause a headache for the police because someone (with the best intentions) reports a "terrorist" with a camera? The police have much better things to do for the next couple of days.

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 21):
Why if I'm just minding my own business? That is letting them win.

I agree we cannot let them win. But, I do think it would be wise to let things settle down for a couple of days, then resume normal activities.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 29):
The sooner people get real the better, and being at an airport perimeter fence with a camera makes a big fat ZERO difference to how secure the aircraft are.

Yes, we all know that. I know that, hell - I'll be at LHR tomorrow if I could....but I'm just going to wait a few days, wait and see what the next few day's bring.

Especially at places like LHR at the moment, I bet there operating a zero tolerance policy, anyone who doesn't need to be near the fence will get moved on.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
LHRSIMON
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 32):
I agree we cannot let them win. But, I do think it would be wise to let things settle down for a couple of days, then resume normal activities.

Spot on.....  Smile
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chris78cpr
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting LHRman (Reply 10):
. Looks good for me, maybe not for my camera equipment on my visit to Greece a week on Friday.

Join the club! Im flying LHR-LAX-MEL tommorrow on AA/QF and i had to go out and buy two Peli cases to put my kit in. Frigging expensive and its just for tommorrows first flight! £500 pissing quid so i can take cameras on a 10hr flight!!! Im so angry about it all.

Chris
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ThierryD
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
I doubt this will be permanent so stop the propaganda already.

Nobody is doing any propaganda here but everytime we give up some of our freedom to be more "secure" from any terrorists they win a battle.
And yes we are probably at war but this one can't be won with firearms but has to be fought with intellectual means and the first step for doing so would be to get rid of this irrationnal fear that anybody could be a terrorist.

Thierry
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bezoar
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:52 am

I posted a new thread on this, but I guess I could have put it here:

My son is flying today from Jacksonville, FL to Anchorage, and was not allowed take his camera/lenses onboard as carry-on. He could take his computer, however.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
dc10tim
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 33):
Yes, we all know that. I know that, hell - I'll be at LHR tomorrow if I could....but I'm just going to wait a few days, wait and see what the next few day's bring.

Especially at places like LHR at the moment, I bet there operating a zero tolerance policy, anyone who doesn't need to be near the fence will get moved on.

And what if there is no change and the nation is still on "critical" alert in a weeks time, a months time or a year?

Crikey, when the IRA were in full swing, as I've already said, in the '80s when I was a child and before, people were being blown up indiscriminately all over the place. The country can't grind to a halt though.

What exactly do you mean by "zero tolerance" anyway? I'm not aware of the legality of my activities (as an enthusiast or photographer) suddenly altering.

Call me pig-headed if you will, but I intend to live my life as normal. I have utter contempt for the people behind this activity and as I say, I'm damned if my life will change as a result of their hypocrisy and cowardice (Indeed I'm not even sure THEY know what their cause is).

Again, as I say, I wont be visiting any airports for the time being anyway through work, but I certainly wouldn't be put off by this.

Quoting Chris78cpr (Reply 35):
Frigging expensive and its just for tommorrows first flight! £500 pissing quid so i can take cameras on a 10hr flight!!! Im so angry about it all.

I can imagine Chris. The airlines and crews who I have flown with over the last couple of years have been great when it comes to photography in the cabin and I'd be really cheesed off.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 36):
Nobody is doing any propaganda here but everytime we give up some of our freedom to be more "secure" from any terrorists they win a battle.

This is the paradox. Through wanting to curtail terrorism and stop people wanting to oppress us, we run the risk of inadvertently doing it to our population ourselves.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 36):
And yes we are probably at war but this one can't be won with firearms but has to be fought with intellectual means and the first step for doing so would be to get rid of this irrationnal fear that anybody could be a terrorist.

"Profiling" terrorists, though accurate most of the time, is dangerous and controversial. Not that I shy away from controversy, but it can mean that you target the wrong people by the way they look. I'm not sure a democratic society can fight an ideology by intellectual means either.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 38):
What exactly do you mean by "zero tolerance" anyway? I'm not aware of the legality of my activities (as an enthusiast or photographer) suddenly altering.

What I'm saying is, if you got spotted around the perimeter fence of LHR, you'll most probably get moved on - just for the next few days. You have no real reason to be there.

Simon.
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LHRSIMON
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:21 pm

It's pretty simple. Any spots that are 50/50 chance of being move on (Perimiter Road for example) will be a case of 100% moved on within a small amount of time. And no doubt you will also get a lecture about the current alert and how you should be more responsible at this time. And to be honest i somewhat agree with them....

It was the same (apart from going to critical) when the tube bombs went of on 7/7. In a few weeks things returned to normal.

Is it really that important that we get more photo's from LHR over this weeks coming period !!!

If you are insistant to come to LHR i would say stick to Myrtle. Thats unless you want to get moved on every 10 minites after a rollocking !!!  Sad
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TS
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:23 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 39):
What I'm saying is, if you got spotted around the perimeter fence of LHR, you'll most probably get moved on - just for the next few days. You have no real reason to be there.

Says who? The UK is a free country, & I don't see a reason why spotters shouldn't go as always to the airport. What can happen if people spot there? Someone could throw liquid explosives at airplanes? The problem is apparently within the airport, not outside. Terror is about scaring the crap out of people & changing their livestyles. If you do so it's a little victory for them.

Thomas
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting TS (Reply 41):
Says who? The UK is a free country, & I don't see a reason why spotters shouldn't go as always to the airport. What can happen if people spot there? Someone could throw liquid explosives at airplanes? The problem is apparently within the airport, not outside. Terror is about scaring the crap out of people & changing their livestyles. If you do so it's a little victory for them.

The UK may be a free country, but the perimeter fence and road around the fence is property of BAA, they can (and do) move you on whenever they want.

I'm not asking you to change your lifestyle at all, just give it a few days before going back to the airport - let it calm down a bit.

All i'm saying is, the police have enough on there plate at the moment, without moving on photographers / spotters from places where they shouldn't be, and have no reason to be there.

As the other Simon said, if your planning to go to LHR in the next few days, stick to Myrtle - or places you know where your not going to get moved on.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
dc10tim
Posts: 1380
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:21 am

RE: LHR - Not The Best Time To Come!

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 42):
The UK may be a free country, but the perimeter fence and road around the fence is property of BAA, they can (and do) move you on whenever they want.

This further highlights why the situation is a little ridiculous. Obviously under the LHR byelaw, the police are going to be keen with anyone on "the airport". However, are you any more or less of a perceived threat to the airport on the dual-carriageway outside Hatton Cross tube station or on Myrtle Avenue? Of course not. The difference is, nobody can do a thing about you being there.

Quoting TS (Reply 41):
Terror is about scaring the crap out of people & changing their livestyles. If you do so it's a little victory for them.

I don't intend letting that happen.

Tim.
Obviously missing something....

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