javibi
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Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:27 pm

Just got this one rejected (quality, blurry, distance):
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 695 File size: 226kb
Quality, blurry, distance


The tech details: EOS 20D RAW file, focal length 600mm, 1/10 seconds, f4, ISO 400, shot just before sunrise.

I wonder if any of the "PS gurus" out there find it interesting enough to give a go at editing it to try to make it fit into the A.net criteria.

Thanks

j
 
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Kukkudrill
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:33 pm

Audacious attempt and all credit to you for trying it but it does look a touch blurry I have to say (as well as jagged in places). Problem is, to deal with the distance rejection you'd have to crop to enlarge the aircraft in the frame and that would only accentuate the blur. I'm no Photoshop guru but I doubt if it can be saved.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting Javibi (Thread starter):
Just got this one rejected (quality, blurry, distance):

IMHO, I'd add "level" to this. IMO it was right rejected. It IS blurry, it IS far away, it IS grainy, and looks here a little pixelated, and of course leaning to the right too.

One for the personal collection IMO, it's nice nevertheless, but not up to A.net's standards.
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:51 pm

J I'm at work so i cant comment on quality here.
But your panning shots are always top notch one of my all time favourites is the emirates at Sydney.
But for distance it does need to be cropped closer.
Cheers
On a wing and a prayer
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:10 pm

I doubt the salvageability of this one Javier due to the above mentionned reasons. You'd definitely have to crop in closer and that would make it even harder, if not impossible, to correct the blurry and quality issues (for A.net standards).
Gutsy attempt though with 600mm and 1/10s exposure and pretty good result for that combination anyway! Just do some more workout and next time you'll be able to keep the camera perfectly steady. duck 

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
INNflight
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 2):
It IS blurry, it IS far away, it IS grainy, and looks here a little pixelated, and of course leaning to the right too.

Yes Javier. It's almost side-on. Not only that this is boring, but you should also learn to get sharp photos. And add levels please.

David just read and learn. I think you're not experienced enough to teach photographers like J here...  eyebrow 

Have a try at these pannings, then keep us posted please.
Jet Visuals
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:14 pm

Deleted because of Tim's beautiful post.




 sarcastic 

[Edited 2006-09-16 12:35:22]
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 5):
Have a try at these pannings, then keep us posted please.

Here you go then:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Alfred Eliasson - Reykjavik Spotters



[Edited 2006-09-16 12:17:30]
 
INNflight
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:22 pm

Comparing a daylight ISO 100 shot to an early morning one at ISO 400 and a 300mm to a 600mm with 1/100th compared to 1/10th isn't the same league, don't you think?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you seem to have the need of contributing just about anything.

How valuable is this to tell somebody else the settings for a pan? Another airport, longer distances ( 600mm for an A340 not even full frame, the distance for a light aircraft? Go figure. ), less light, different intentions.

Just my 2c's of course.
Jet Visuals
 
747 4-ever
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:27 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 7):
Here you go then:

Just a slight difference in shutter speed...
Honestly, getting sharp results at 1/100 of a plane still on the ground is fairly easy. Shooting landing aircrafts for 1/10 is not.

edit: Guess Florian beat me to it..

[Edited 2006-09-16 12:28:09]
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 8):
but you seem to have the need of contributing just about anything.

Can't you stop? You said me to show a pan, that one is the best I've got. What do you think I am? Javier Guerrero 2? I'm me, and I haven't got the experience as Javier has got, but when I give opinions, you are bashing like I don't know what...

xxx


Yeh, because you've got a much better panning shot than I, that means that you may say everything bad about me as you want?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Trojer Photography



[Edited 2006-09-16 12:34:24]
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting 747 4-ever (Reply 9):
Honestly, getting sharp results at 1/100 of a plane still on the ground is fairly easy.

What's wrong with you guys? I haven't got a better shot than this, whats the matter??
 
timdegroot
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:34 pm

1/100th is panning now? Wink

I do think Aero145 is entitled to give his opinion on the issues with the shot, no need to shoot him down because he comes off like a goof in his own posts, he is right here.. But the advice about trying it ona different aircraft at 1/60th is hardly helpful.


J, you heard my opinions on the shot. It probably was rejected as a bordercase.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
INNflight
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:36 pm

No need to feel personally attacked there.

I said have a go at these pannings. It's not that easy as you might be able to imagine.

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 10):
What do you think I am? Javier Guerrero 2?

I assume you mean who. And no, definitely not.

Again, how valuable is this regarding the topic of THIS thread?

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 6):
Javier, I'd try 500mm 1/60th with a light aircraft


Anyway... there's a life outside that's calling. Have fun.

[Edited 2006-09-16 12:38:58]
Jet Visuals
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 13):
No need to feel personally attacked there.

No need to bash me like crazy then!!!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 13):
I assume you mean who. And no, definitely not.

I mean who? I mean that I'm not an other Javier Guerrero, I'm not able to do as he does, he has been practising longer than I've had a Canon camera!

Quoting INNflight (Reply 13):
Again, how valuable is this regarding the topic of THIS thread?

THIS is not a part of the thread!
 
INNflight
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 14):
Quoting INNflight (Reply 13):
Again, how valuable is this regarding the topic of THIS thread?

THIS is not a part of the thread!

Start a new one then. Suggestion for pannings.

Cya  Smile
Jet Visuals
 
IL76
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:43 pm

J....
I can give it a go, you have my email address, so send me the RAW file if you want. Although I have to agree, it IS blurry. But lets see what we can do.  Smile
600mm? Did you buy a new lens there?!

Ed
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 15):
Start a new one then. Suggestion for pannings.

Florian. I said that this is not a part of the thread:

"Javier, I'd try 500mm 1/60th with a light aircraft"

Where is that post, show me!

Quoting IL76 (Reply 16):
600mm? Did you buy a new lens there?!

OK guys, don't bash me: Ed., I think he added the Extender on the 100-400L and used manual focus.

-Aero145

PS: Gone out, NOT panning, trying out "The Magic Drainpipe", Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L.

[Edited 2006-09-16 12:45:44]

EDIT: Sorry Eduard, he couldn't have used the 100-400L+1.4x for that shot, as it was taken at f/4, 600mm.  ashamed 

[Edited 2006-09-16 12:47:21]
 
timdegroot
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 17):
Where is that post, show me!

Guess you deleted that, covering your tracks eh Wink

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:08 pm

Welcome to the kindergarten  Wink
-
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 18):

Guess you deleted that, covering your tracks eh

Thanks to you.

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 19):
Welcome to the kindergarten

What are you doing here, I thought you were in France.  duck 

[Edited 2006-09-16 13:24:55]
 
PUnmuth@VIE
Posts: 3119
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 20):
What are you doing here, I thought you were in France.

Bienvenue dans la maternelle  Wink
-
 
Psych
Posts: 2944
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:56 pm

Hi J.

No Guru here, but I would be more than happy to try my best.

Cheers.

Paul
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting PUnmuth@VIE (Reply 21):
Bienvenue dans la maternelle

Why are you welcoming me to the nursery school  confused 
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:14 pm

Thanks for the help offers to you all, just what I wanted, some e-mails have been sent  Smile

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 3):
But your panning shots are always top notch one of my all time favourites is the emirates at Sydney.

Thanks!  blush 

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 4):
Just do some more workout and next time you'll be able to keep the camera perfectly steady

Just for the record, this is not handheld, no way I could do that with the EF 600 f4!  Smile

Quoting IL76 (Reply 16):
600mm? Did you buy a new lens there?!

Nope, I just borrowed a friend's! I plan to get myself an EF 500 f4 in the near future, though  Smile

@David: you had it coming, because (first of all) it seems you did not even read my post. I did not complain about the rejection in any way, I did not even ask for opinions on the shot, I know very well why it was rejected; I just asked for help editing it for A.net. Anyway you jumped in here to criticise my shot (I did have a laugh with your first post). Well, Tim is right when he says

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 12):
I do think Aero145 is entitled to give his opinion on the issues with the shot

but I think you usually come a bit too "aggressive" in many of your posts before you have earned the respect of the forum (if you wish to be like that, cool, but do not complain if people come at you because of it; learn from JeffM  Wink ) It could be a cultural thing though, I know for a fact that Icelanders do not have exactly the same character as Spaniards...

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 14):
I'm not able to do as he does

Maybe you are, just try!  Smile

Regards

j
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Javibi (Reply 24):
Just for the record, this is not handheld, no way I could do that with the EF 600 f4!

Oh, well then you've no excuse for messing it up!  duck 

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Javibi (Reply 24):
but I think you usually come a bit too "aggressive" in many of your posts before you have earned the respect of the forum

I'll keep that in mind. And Florian and Tim, please don't bash me for this, I've heard what i have heard, and no need to say more, as I will not be any better with that.

Quoting Javibi (Reply 24):
I know for a fact that Icelanders do not have exactly the same character as Spaniards...

It's right!  blush 

Quoting Javibi (Reply 24):
Maybe you are, just try!

Hehe, I've tried, and I'm not going well with a non-IS lens.  Silly
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5549
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 26):
and I'm not going well with a non-IS lens

Keep trying David, whilst IS is a nice tool it is still only that..
There were many outstanding panning shots taken of many subjects before IS was invented. In many ways aircraft are easier panning subjects than most.
In fact the single mode IS that the consumer lenses have would actually hinder panning shots.

Just keep trying, you will get there.

Cheers

[Edited 2006-09-17 00:57:50]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 27):
Just keep trying, you will get there.

I hope so. Not easy to pan here @ RKV, believe me.  Smile
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:17 pm

OK, that was difficult, and I'm not sure if mine is actually better than yours.

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 404kb
Ed's edit


I'm not too satisfied about how the engines and wingroot turned out, somehow it looks a bit messy. And I'm an idiot with using noise reduction tools (smart blur in my case)... Anyway, good fun to compare our workflows.  Smile
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 29):
I'm not sure if mine is actually better than yours

Well, I think in most aspects it is better, thanks!!!  Smile

Quoting IL76 (Reply 29):
I'm not too satisfied about how the engines and wingroot turned out

In my experience, at these shutter speeds, you just can't get sharp wings and engines, I blame it on the vertical oscillations of the wing itself...

Any opinions?

Thanks again.

j
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:47 am

I think the sharpening on Ed's version is better. The overall image quality though is not as good.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
javibi
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:17 am

 
IL76
Posts: 2237
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:36 am

That's pretty good! I'd accept it. The of difficulty of taking a shot like this outweighs the slight blurriness in my opinion. But don't quote me on this, I'm just a guy.  Smile You need 2 more 'guys' who share my opinion.  Smile

E
 
aero145
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:44 am

Because you, J., have uploaded it and are asking for comments, this time, I may comment.  stirthepot 

IMO it's too high in the frame, and lacks contrast. It's also unlevel, looks like it's leaning to the left.

If it'll be accepted, I'll be happy, but if it'll get rejected, I'd not either be surprised.
 
Ander
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:14 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
Because you, J., have uploaded it and are asking for comments, this time, I may comment.

IMO it's too high in the frame, and lacks contrast. It's also unlevel, looks like it's leaning to the left.

If it'll be accepted, I'll be happy, but if it'll get rejected, I'd not either be surprised.

You might be right David, but I believe I'm right if I say I haven't seen a single shot like this in the database. Whether you like it or not it is a superb shot. A bit critical, but still unique. At least for now.
Ander
Born to tri.
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
IMO it's too high in the frame,

 

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
and lacks contrast.

 

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
It's also unlevel,

 

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
looks like it's leaning to the left.

 

This coming from someone who needs help calibrating his monitor, can't use a 20D properly, thinks the 70-200 f2.8 LIS is bad and only shoots stationary Cessnas standing 10m away from it.

Sorry man, but I highly doubt your comment will have any credibility.
E

[Edited 2006-09-18 20:08:31]
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
 confused 

I'm amazed that you don't see that! There's less space in the top than in the bottom.

Contrast... An other screen here, looks much better.

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
 confused 

Yeh, it's not unlevel, mistake. It's not leaning to the left, either...

Quoting Ander (Reply 35):
Whether you like it or not it is a superb shot.



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
If it'll be accepted, I'll be happy
 
INNflight
Posts: 3526
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Javibi (Reply 32):
Is this an improvement?

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...6.jpg

Is this my edit? Not sure anymore  Smile

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 34):
IMO it's too high in the frame,

The upper part shows bare sky, the bottom lights and a lot of motion blur, hence having the aircraft not directly in center makes perfectly sense.

F.
Jet Visuals
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 20):
What are you doing here, I thought you were in France.

No I was Dumbo, for the very last time "read before.......... "

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
Sorry man, but I highly doubt your comment will have any credibility.

Reaching ignition point Eduard  Smile
Let's ignore the plook, tried to get some reason in there(as did many others) but it appears to be useless.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 38):
The upper part shows bare sky, the bottom lights and a lot of motion blur, hence having the aircraft not directly in center makes perfectly sense.

 checkmark 

Javier the idea is to isolate the A/C from the rest, don't sneeze while doing so like I did because then you have to start al over again  Smile
After which some noise reduction ca be applied without affecting the A/C.
Rotated 1 degree ccw to get the building(tower ?) in the background straight.
Also used a little blur brush to remove some jaggies on the cheat lines and a little sharpen brush to sharpen some other parts.
http://www.honders.net/tmp/Jav_mod.jpg
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
McG1967
Posts: 482
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:18 am

Whether it gets accepted or not that is one stunning shot Javier.
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 33):
I'm just a guy.

I'll pass on the easy joke as minorities are easily offended these days.  Smile

Quoting Ander (Reply 35):
it is a superb shot

They are gonna find out we are close friends one of these days, Ander  Wink

Quoting INNflight (Reply 38):
Is this my edit?

Nope! But thanks a lot for your help  Smile BTW, did you upload any MAD shot?

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 39):
Javier the idea is to isolate the A/C from the rest, don't sneeze while doing so like I did because then you have to start al over again
After which some noise reduction ca be applied without affecting the A/C

I did try that in my edit  Smile Many thanks for your help!! But the link you provide points to a small size version  Sad

Quoting McG1967 (Reply 40):
that is one stunning shot Javier.

Thanks!!!  blush 

j
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Javibi (Reply 41):
Many thanks for your help!! But the link you provide points to a small size version

Yes...... you never gave me a full size version Big grin
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Psych
Posts: 2944
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:35 pm

I have already spoken to Javier about this, but I think he has done an excellent job editing this shot.

He was kind enough to allow me to have a go with the original file, and I have been struggling to better the efforts of those posted above - with no success to date.

Though not an expert with panning shots, I do have some sense of how technically difficult it must have been to achieve the quality in the shot that he has, and for this he must be applauded.

As ever, I always applaud Javier's preparedness to keep pushing the boundaries - the site would be the worse off without that.

Good luck.

Paul
 
Psych
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:00 pm

Just for the sake of interest, Javier was kind enough to allow me to play with his image, and this was the best that I could produce - taking account of the difficulty avoiding any jaggies and also trying to preserve the kind of lighting/atmoshere in the shot that I would guess Javier would be keen to retain.
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 483kb
Paul's Edit of Javier's Original

Javier - I wish you luck with this - quality is pretty excellent given the technical challenges the shot presented.

All the best.

Paul
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:29 am

Your edit is a bit soft Paul.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
javibi
Posts: 1295
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:05 pm

It was rejected  Sad Thank you for your help, everyone!  Smile

j
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:11 pm

J,
Which version did you upload? I remember seeing a version I had not seen in this tread...
E
 
javibi
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:23 pm

 
User avatar
acontador
Posts: 1381
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RE: Panning Shot Editing Help

Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:22 am

Hi Javier,

This is an amazing shot considering how you took it. Would be nice to have it in A.net, but irrespectively if it is or not accepted, the fact remains that this is a fine panning shot, way above what most of us can even dream of produce...
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!

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