Avro85
Topic Author
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:35 am

Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:23 am

Hi all,

I have the following rejection which I don't really get..... And would like to have some advice from all the experienced people here

Some might remember from another topic, that a couple of days ago I got the following shot rejected for border (as ONLY rejection criteria I may add)

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ections/big/20060920_ET-AJS_02.jpg

After some quick and helpful advice I quickly saw my mistake, corrected it by doing a new edit of the original and re-submitted the picture.

I eventually came up with the following picture in the queue ( http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...ections/big/20060925_ET-AJS_04.jpg ) which had no borders this time. Since the picture had been rejected for borders only I was pretty confident that it could get through since it was the only fault mentioned on the rejection mail.

Well, you might guess the surprise I had when I saw a couple of minutes ago that the shot had been rejected for Motiv this time....

The good news however was that I saw that I also got a personal message form the screener who rejected the picture. I thought that the screener might help me out but the personal message just said the following: "crop".

Now my questions:

- Does this mean that those kind of crops are not allowed anymore into the DB ?
- Why wasn't it rejected for motiv right away the first time if the motiv isn't allowed ? Or has the rule changed in 5 days ?
- Could the screener in question maybe elaborate on the word crop ? crop because it's not allowed or crop because it's not well done etc ......


I would be very happy if people could help me out here in order for me to know whether or not I have to forgot those crops in the future ? I'd like to save the picture if possible...

Many thanks for all the help as usual.
Cheers
Chris

PS: I don't want to sound rude in any way in my post and don't want to critisize the screening team who does an amazing job !! I just want an explanation since "crop" isn't suffisiant for me

EDIT: typo

[Edited 2006-09-25 18:31:19]
 
pepef
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:12 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:17 am

I think most photographers on this site would agree, that the single most frustrating thing about A.net is the way the rejections are handled.

You upload a photo, it gets rejected, you start again at the back of the queue. It takes weeks for a photo to get screened this way. The forum is full of threads where people ask "pre-screening advice" or "advice on a rejection".

The professional picture agencies and even the world's largest royalty-free image bank have a better solution to this problem:

Your photo is either "rejected outright" or "rejected with permission to re-upload".

If your photo is "rejected with permission to re-upload", but has minor faults that can be corrected, the rejection email specifies what needs to be corrected, and provides a link for the re-upload. Once the photo is re-uploaded, it is screened within 24 hours. These minor corrections do not need to be screened by more than one screener.

If the photo is not considered good enough for re-upload, the screeners do not give specific advice.

This saves the screeners time and minimizes the photographers frustrations.

Maybe it's time to adopt a similar system here? Everyone can handle rejections, but not the way the rejections are handled.

-Pepef-
 
globalpics
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:49 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:18 am

I think the crop problem is the fact that the top of the radio pylon on the top of the fuselage is cropped and also the bottom of the nosewheel doors is cropped and not complete.To me this makes the motiv rejection spot on  Smile
 
VIAF
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:35 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:36 am

Ok Globalpics

But why they don`t rejected the picture the first time with "Bad motiv" how

Avro85 said and not first with bad border !

This make not sense !
 
garry
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:19 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:41 am

Hi Chris - I think many people will share your frustration.

It is well documented in the forum that members have asked for all rejection reasons to be stated. This has two benefits. Firstly, it does not waste the screeners time in rejecting the same photo again and, secondly, it does not frustrate the photographer who thinks he/she has corrected matters only to find there is actually another reason.

I'm sure with hindsight you would have preferred the word 'motive' added to your first rejection rather than 'crop' added as a personal message to the second.

Just my thoughts

Garry
www.garryridsdale.com
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting VIAF (Reply 3):
But why they don`t rejected the picture the first time with "Bad motiv" how

It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".  Wink

Quoting Pepef (Reply 1):
Maybe it's time to adopt a similar system here?


 rotfl  Maybe when Johan gives control of his site to you, you can implement that?

It's not broke, don't try to fix it.
 
pepef
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:12 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
Maybe when Johan gives control of his site to you, you can implement that?

Consider it done. Next I'll sign you on as Manager of Customer relations. No pay of course, but you get a free t-shirt with my picture on it.

-Pepef-
 
Avro85
Topic Author
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:35 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:15 am

Thanks for the reactions so far. It's nice to see I'm not the only one having those frustrations from time to time  Wink

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out". Wink

Really ? Are you serious ? If that's true then something could be done to improve the screening performance even better. Ticking all the flaws instead of one doesn't take much more time does it ? But re submitting a picture in the queue will take away one precious slot for a picture with an obvious flaw !!!

Anyway, I forgot to say that the frustration was even bigger because I made a comment to the screener when I re submited the photo. I mentioned that it was rejected for border and that I corrected the flaws. Additionaly the picture went through the first screening which means that at least one screener didn't dislike the motiv that much  Wink

Chris
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".

That's the screeners' loss, because that means it's just more poor re-uploads they have to reject.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Avro85 (Reply 7):
Really ? Are you serious ?

Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It's not broke, don't try to fix it.

It's broke.

Your comment here should be a clue...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
eadster
Posts: 2125
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:31 pm

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Pepef (Reply 1):

Your photo is either "rejected outright" or "rejected with permission to re-upload".

Yeah and we could make suggestions till the Cows come home but we all know that nothing will change in regards to the rejection system.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It is a 'one strike and your out' ball game. No one ever said the screener's would list All the defects in an image. Once it's got one, "you're out".

Lately, I've agreed with everything you've said apart from this. So what does it mean when a screener adds a comment to a shot along the lines of "fix problem X and reupload please." It does happen as I've had a few comments like that in the past.

And for them not to include all rejection reasons is only wasting everyone's time. If they mention every rejection reason in the first place, then some folks may not upload it a second and third time.

Just my thoughts. I know screeners don't have to let us know all reasons but wouldn't it help us all?
 
engineergreg
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:12 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:33 am

To be fair, there can be any number of reasons a particular photo has been rejected. Is it the responsibility of the screener to list each and every reason a photo was rejected? I would guess that in most cases one problem (such as bad cropping) can also lead to another problem, for example bad motive. Now before you ask the question "then why didn't they list both reasons in my rejection letter?" you may want to consider the fact that screeners have a lot of photos to screen and don't have the time to give absolute attention to each and every single photo.

I realize nobody enjoys having their photos rejected (and I have a 0% success rate) but there is a reason behind each rejection. The screeners have a very thankless job to perform and don't think for a minute they enjoy rejecting a photo which someone put a lot of work into to get it accepted.

Just my thoughts.
 
User avatar
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
Quoting JeffM (Reply 5):
It's not broke, don't try to fix it.

It's broke.

Your comment here should be a clue...

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?

No. I don't think it is.

Maybe the 1 strike concept is too difficult for some? As has been mentioned before, if you need help, ask for it here, not after the fact from the screeners, or do something like using a rejection checklist to check your image BEFORE uploading it. But remember that a good percentage of the folks offering such pearls of photographic corrective wisdom, get a ton of rejections themself.  Smile
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 13):
No. I don't think it is.

Then why the 'endless posts' of this nature?

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's

It's not a.net, it's the rest of the world?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Avro85
Topic Author
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:35 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting JeffM (Reply 9):
Do you read any of the endless posts like your's?

Yes from time to time I read some of those endless topics. However I'm not trying to change the fundamentals of Anet with my topic. All I wanted to hear is some constructive feedback. Is the motiv because the antenna is cropped away ? Is it motiv because the gear doors are not fully included ? Can it be fixed etc....

Up till now only one member explained me why he thinks it was rejected for motiv.

Then on a second note I also wanted to state the fact that I don't understand the rejection since it already went through screening without being rejected for motiv. That's all. I don't intent to change the screening process. And I certainly dont critisize the screeners who do an amazing job as I already mentioned.

I'm not going to debate on other matters.

I hope it's clear now Jeff  Wink

Best Regards
Chris
 
lasham
Crew
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Flabbergasted About A Motiv Rejection!

Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Avro85 (Reply 15):
the screeners who do an amazing job

Thanks!!
No sun no fun

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