LHB727230Adv
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New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:41 pm

Greetings, fellow photographers,

I've been looking into getting a DSLR for a while now and am going to treat myself to one for my 18th birthday. I've already decided to get a 30D body, now I'm just looking for lenses. After searching around the net for hours, I've come up with two different lineups. Since all of these lenses have been highly recommended, i would like to hear your opinions on them, and recommend me to one of the two. Here goes:

Lineup 1

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS or 24-105mm f/4L IS
EF 70-200mm f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS
EF 50mm f/1.4

This lineup covers most of my shooting situations. I would really like the 10-22mm since its the only way of getting true wide-angle on the APS-C sensor of the 30D. I can live with the price of the upcoming IS version of the 70-200 f/4 L as long as it gives me a good panning effect.

Lineup 2

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5
EF 17-40mm f/4 L
EF 50mm f/1.4
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

This is a cheaper lineup, same notes as above.

Lineup 3

EF 17-40mm f/4 L
EF 50mm f/1.4
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

The cheapest lineup, but missing the critical wide angle.

This is to be an allround set with emphasis on spotting and landscape photography.

Any comments welcome,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:58 pm

Hello Alex.

The latest setup works fine, but the first one is very nice, as of the 10-22 and 24-105.

Regards,
Aero145
 
mygind66
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 7:13 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:06 pm

Hi Alex..

I see money is not a problem hopefully for you..
I'd rather prefer the 24-70/2.8 L plus the 100-400/L lens too if what you need is for aviation photography.

Cheers

Enrique
 
JRadier
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:08 pm

Alex, what are you planning on doing with the 50mm 1.4? do you really need that 1.4, or the build quality? Otherwise you might think about the 1.8 II version, wich can be found new for under €100 here. It's sharp as *#$&, nice apeture (I use it for musical/play photography) and allthough from plastic pretty ok.

Great portrait lens.

Jurgen
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
Posts: 247
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:13 pm

Thanks for your comments so far, some more notes here,

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 2):
I see money is not a problem hopefully for you..

Money isn't such a big issue, I've worked out the cost of each lineup as follows (including other accessories):

Lineup 1: 5000$
Lineup 2: 4400$
Lineup 3: 3700$

Ideally I'd like to keep the price below 4000$, max 4500$. I'm only interested in Lineup 1 if it's really worth its money.

I've considered the 100-400 L in combination with the 24-105 L, but its a little slow (i'd like at least f/4) and on the heavy side.

On a side note, I have read a lot of complaints of getting a bad copy of a lens, so I was wondering what the chances were of ending up with a bad copy, and what I can do about it since I am aiming for top quality pictures.

Again, more comments welcome, cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 3):
Alex, what are you planning on doing with the 50mm 1.4? do you really need that 1.4, or the build quality? Otherwise you might think about the 1.8 II version, wich can be found new for under €100 here. It's sharp as *#$&, nice apeture (I use it for musical/play photography) and allthough from plastic pretty ok.

Great portrait lens.

Yes, I've heard a lot about the 50mm f/1.8 lens, one of the best value for money lenses around. The reason I'm looking at the f/1.4 is low light airport night shots, and portrait photography. At first I had decided on the f/1.8, but I kept on reading recomendations for the f/1.4 model over the f/1.8, although the 1.4 is a little soft at 1.4. If I do run into money problems, I'll buy the 1.8.
 
Airplanepics
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting LHB727230Adv (Thread starter):
EF 70-200 f/4 L or EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS

I didn't think there was a F/4 IS Version of the 70-200? Unless you mean the F/2.8 version?
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 6):
I didn't think there was a F/4 IS Version of the 70-200?

Hehe Simon.  Smile

Just search for in google exactly this, with " ":

"Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM"

Will be possible to buy it in this month.

The changes are new 3rd Generation IS (3-4 stops), better IQ and weather sealing.

Regards,
Aero145
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:05 am

Alex,

The 24-70mm F/2.8 L is a non Image Stabilized lens. I opted for the 24-105mm as it has the 3rd Generation IS and can easily handhold it at slow shutter speeds. Its great glass and highly recommended.

Practicing my prop blur skills on a decorative windmill in my grandmothers backyard this past summer (handheld):

http://www.jetwashimages.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_3293.jpg

Camera: Canon 20D
Lens: Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS
Shutter: 1/6 sec.
Aperture: F/22
ISO: 100
Focal Length: 32mm

Heres one more, handheld again:

http://www.jetwashimages.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_3490.jpg


Camera: Canon 20D
Lens: Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS
Shutter: 0.6 sec.
Aperture: F/18
ISO: 100
Focal Length: 24mm

[Edited 2006-10-07 19:19:00]
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:30 am

I personally went through a DSLR dilemma today.....

I have a 350D and wanted a second body, so I looked at both the 30D and the brand-new 400D. At first, I thought the 30D would be by far the better choice, until I read some reviews of both cams compared side-by-side.

Although in theory the 400D is actually below the 30D (somewhere between the 350D and the 30D) it is, spec-wise, much more advanced. I'm not bothered about the new self-cleaning sensor but some of the other features make it more than a match for its bigger brother.

It uses exactly the same 9-point AF system, has 2.1 effective megapixels more and, best of all, is a hell of a lot less money. It is also less noisy than the 30D.

The reviews I've seen to date suggest that a lot of potential 30D buyers will convert to the 400D, and with good reason too. Don't forget that the most important bit of any setup is the lens and not the camera itself - it doesn't matter how good your camera is, it won't perform with crappy glass (or plastic, more to the point!).

You may choose not to heed my advice, but I'd go for the 400D and spend the money saved on some damn expensive lenses.

Anyone else agree?

Karl
 
mygind66
Posts: 1033
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:41 am

Chad..

Beautiful images, specially the second one. A monopod is a good tool to have anyway..

Cheers

Enrique
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 10):
Chad..
A monopod is a good tool to have anyway..

Hmmm, maybe Ill try that next time.  Wink
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:49 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
The 24-70mm F/2.8 L is a non Image Stabilized lens.

Sorry, typo. How is the 24-105 IS? I heard the image quality was a bit lower than the 24-70, but it has IS where the 24-70 doesn't.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
I'd go for the 400D and spend the money saved on some damn expensive lenses.

I know the 400D is a great camera, at an incredible value, but I'm looking at something of higher quality. A main issue for me was the small grip of the 400D, and the 30D has better manual controls, so I'm going to compromise slightly on the lenses.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
The reviews I've seen to date suggest that a lot of potential 30D buyers will convert to the 400D,

Once again, the 'mystery' reviews surface.....

Sure would love to read some of them.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
best of all, is a hell of a lot less money.

Just why exactly do you think that is?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
spec-wise, much more advanced.

Can you list them all out for us?
 
maiznblu_757
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting LHB727230Adv (Reply 12):
How is the 24-105 IS?



Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Its great glass and highly recommended.
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:49 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 14):
Quoting LHB727230Adv (Reply 12):
How is the 24-105 IS?

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Its great glass and highly recommended.

I was asking about image quality compared to the 24-70, since I don't know if I should go for (from what I read) higher image quality on the 24-70, or the IS on the 24-105.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:37 pm

I like the quality produced by both lenses but opted for the IS in the 24-105mm. The focal length is great as well.

Here are samples taken with both lenses. The F-5 is 1600x.  Wink


Canon 24-105mm F/4 L IS

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images




Canon 24-70mm F/2.8 L

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images

 
maiznblu_757
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
Anyone else agree?

No, absolutely do not agree.  Smile
 
JeffM
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:28 am

Hey! Just noticed,....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chad Thomas - Jetwash Images


That was my last squadron! Nice one Chad.
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 18):
Nice one Chad.

Thanks Jeff.
 
DC3
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:54 pm

Chad.

I notice that the three air-to-air shots are taken with the 24 - 70 and the others are taken with the 24 - 105. Any particular reason? I'm going through the same decision process at the moment and any input would be gratefully received. I have had two of the earlier versions of the 28 - 105 (non-L, non-IS) and have not been especially happy with either of them.

Thanks,

Chris
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:49 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:10 pm

Thanks for all the comments so far. After reading some more reviews on the net, and all your replies, I haven't really been convinced that the 24-70 L or 24-105 L IS are good enough lenses for me to spend money on, so I will probably go for the 17-40 L and 50 f/1.4 combo with the 70-200 f/4 L IS (Lineup 3) as it is the cheapest and greatest value. Should I find that I am missing the 10-22 wide angle, I can always buy it and upgrade to lineup 2.

More comments welcome, cheers,
Alex  camera   bigthumbsup 
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:30 pm

Referring to a reply by JeffM, why the sarcasm? Reviews I have read and folks I've spoken to DO suggest that the introduction of the 400D will take sales away from the 30D. That's not my opinion particularly, I'm simply stating what I've read. I for one was going to buy a 30D but instead chose a 400D, simply because image quality is better, so that's testimony to my theory.

I'm well aware the 30D is, overall, a better camera (hence the price difference) but in many circumstances its results will be no better (perhaps in some cases they may be worse) than the 400D. My friend has a 30D but admits that the image quality of the 400D is slightly better, so there's no bias there.

And seeing as you've asked for a list of the 400D's advanced features (comparable directly with or better than the 30D), here we go:

10.1MP as opposed to 8.2MP (I suppose you're now going to tell me that 8.2 is better than 10.1, are you?)
9-point AF system, identical to the one used in the 30D
Self-cleaning sensor (two types of cleaning available)
2.5" LCD screen, I believe of equal or better resolution than the 30D
Auto LCD off sensor
Picture style

Not an advanced feature but the price is very good too.

Now here's the advantages of the 30D:

Sturdier alloy body (this helps bumps the price up)
5FPS as opposed to 3FPS
More advanced manual functions and pre-capture picture control

So looking at all this, in my opinion the 400D is overall a better camera, when cost is also taken into consideration. Oh, and by the way, if you bother to read my post carefully, you'll find that I NEVER ONCE said that the 30D is an inferior camera. Finally, I was just expressing my opinion, and I thought my input might help - at the end of the day, although the guy's got a lot to spend, he still has a maximum budget, and mine was but another (economic) suggestion. Nothing wrong with lowering the budget for the camera and increasing it for the lenses.

So next time you want to write something that slams my opinion and attempts to belittle me, you could at least read my posts a little more thoroughly so as not to cause offence.

Thank you.

Karl
 
maiznblu_757
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting DC3 (Reply 20):
Chad.

I notice that the three air-to-air shots are taken with the 24 - 70 and the others are taken with the 24 - 105. Any particular reason?

I rented the 24-70mm F/2.8 L for the air-to-airs and shortly after that I ordered the 24-105mm F/4 L IS.
 
JeffM
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
Reviews I have read

Could you not just share them with us? Usually when people make statements like you have, they back them up.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
Now here's the advantages of the 30D:

Seems like you failed to mention a 'few':
Metering Characteristics: Multi-Segment,+ Spot
ISO Equivalencies the xti can't do: 125,160,250,320,500,640,1000,1600,3200
Number of Scene Modes: 9, (xti=6)
Maximum Shutter Speed: 1/8000 vs the xti 1/4000
30d has a DC input, xti doesn't
A top panel LCD
the XTi's viewfinder is smaller and more distant than cameras such as the 30D

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
So next time you want to write something that slams my opinion and attempts to belittle me, you could at least read my posts a little more thoroughly so as not to cause offence.

No thanks, I'll 'slam' as you say, as I see fit.  Wink
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:44 am

Well you may wish to continue your childish tirade but I personally have better things to do, like actually photograph some aeroplanes. Oh, and I think all those plus-points you mentioned for the 30D come under the canopy of 'more advanced manual functions and pre-capture picture control'. Generalising like this was far less time consuming than writing out all the individual features, which is what your arrogance obviously dictated you do.

And once again, I NEVER said the 400D was a better camera - pick words to that effect out in my post and I might buy you a lolly to go suck on!

Seems no-one round here is entitled to an opinion so long as it contradicts your own.

P.S. In case your knowledge of English is a little basic, I have already stated that said review was in A MAGAZINE and not on the internet.

Karl

[Edited 2006-10-09 18:46:02]
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:05 am

Hi Karl.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
A MAGAZINE and not on the internet.

I must have missed that as well.  Wink

Magazine name please?

Quoting JeffM (Reply 24):
Seems like you failed to mention a 'few':
Metering Characteristics: Multi-Segment,+ Spot
ISO Equivalencies the xti can't do: 125,160,250,320,500,640,1000,1600,3200
Number of Scene Modes: 9, (xti=6)
Maximum Shutter Speed: 1/8000 vs the xti 1/4000
30d has a DC input, xti doesn't
A top panel LCD
the XTi's viewfinder is smaller and more distant than cameras such as the 30D

 checkmark 
 
mrk25
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 3:31 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):

In another post you said "I do own a higher end Canon than a 350D" yet here you are looking for a second body to go with your 350D??
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 9):
I have a 350D and wanted a second body,

So what is your "higher end" body?

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
P.S. In case your knowledge of English is a little basic, I have already stated that said review was in A MAGAZINE and not on the internet.

Magazines have websites.  Wink What Magazine was it then? Or did you just browse through it at the grocery store?
 
LHB727230Adv
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:49 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:15 pm

Lets not get off topic here, JakTrax and JeffM. I really appreciate the camera body input both of you are making, but as I said, I have already decided on the 30D because to me, it is the superior camera, and another 2 megapixels on the 400D aren't going to change my mind (there are other aspects which are much more important than megapixels). As I said, thanks for the input, but I'm looking for lens options right now.

Cheers,
Alex  bigthumbsup 
 
DC3
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:47 pm

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 23):
I rented the 24-70mm F/2.8 L for the air-to-airs and shortly after that I ordered the 24-105mm F/4 L IS.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Chris
 
JakTrax
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: New Into DSLR's, What To Get?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:27 pm

OK, let's put in some input regarding lenses right now. I'm not willing to carry this stupid thread on the way it's going.

I WAS looking for a second body, I have one now. And I did indeed browse through the magazine in question at a supermarket. I think it was Digital Camera Review but I'm not certain.

And JeffM, no hard feelings - it's been a good debate but it really is time to get back on topic. I've posted some of my pics (should you want to see 'em) in the 'other' thread we're involved in (The other DSLR debate on the photography forum).

Karl

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