malandan
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

Permission To Publish Not Given.

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:56 pm

This was a situation that I had not previously encountered.

My picture taking spans more than 40 years and whenever possible I seek the permission of pilots and passengers to photograph aircraft. I have never before been refused.

A couple of weeks ago I visited the local airfield and photographed a light aircraft which had been trailered in, having suffered a heavy landing elsewhere. The port undercarriage wheel had been ripped off and the nose wheel bent in an unusual direction. It seemed to me to be an interesting subject and I took photos of the unloading and hangar storage. Some time later I asked the individual concerned about the “where what and when” of the incident which he willingly gave me, but I was a bit taken aback for him to tell me that he would not give his permission for me to publish the photos I had taken. In a nutshell, he stated that this would reflect negatively on the owner of the aircraft which was now himself, he having purchased the airframe with a view to putting it back into the air.
Naturally I will comply with his wishes.
Any thoughts?

Malcolm.
My interest lies in the future as I am going to spend the rest of my life there!
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:20 pm

Makes you wonder what he's hiding. I would have thought the fact that you had pictures of the "before" situation and he was planning to rectify that, would have been a good thing. Sort of "This is how it was, look how good I've done"

However, if he has directly requested that you do not to publish the pictures, this then leaves you in the position of devils advocate. If you were in a public place and anyone could have taken them, then I'm not sure he can deny you. But if you were on private property I think you have to comply.

I'm not totally sure about the subject as I have never in my years of visiting airfields and aerodromes come across this. In fact, it's usually the reverse. Someone always seems to want a print or a copy of a picture - for free normally! lol

Well, over to the legal beagles among us.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:45 pm

I guess there are those among us that would say "screw him, publish and be damned", you were on public land(I beleive) etc etc.
My opinion, if you were asked not to publish.. then don't. There will be other planes!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
dazbo5
Posts: 2717
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:05 am

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:13 pm

Just a thought. If he's planning to repair the aircraft then sell it on, photo's in the public domain of the aircraft with damage may not go down too well when it comes to selling it and its resale value. Imagine if you were buying a car and you saw photo's of it after it had been involved in an accident. Even if it had been repaired to a good standard, many would walk away or offer less. Maybe thats his motive? If he's expressed a wish for you not to publish, then you can only respect his request and not do so.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
Kukkudrill
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:11 pm

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:08 am

I think I can understand the owner's concern even if he's not planning to sell the aircraft. Imagine a conversation starting like this: "I've seen photos of your plane. Are you really flying that wreck? How can you be sure it's safe?" They may be totally ignorant questions but they can still make life difficult - especially if "you" in this hypothetical quote gets substituted with "your husband / son / friend / etc".
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
f4wso
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:11 am

Even if you are in a public place, you have to take into account any goodwill and future opportunities that may be lost by publishing against the owner's wishes.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
malandan
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:43 am

Many thanks for all your responses.

The airfield is privately owned and the owners are friends of mine, and thus another reason for complying with the owners wishes to avoid any unpleasantry. It is an unusual situation but clearly there is little to be gained by going against the owners wishes. As has been said, it's only an image and not one which would raise a great deal of interest.

It is perhaps something to bear in mind should anyone encounter a similar situation.

Malcolm.
My interest lies in the future as I am going to spend the rest of my life there!
 
DC3
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:47 pm

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting F4wso (Reply 5):
Even if you are in a public place, you have to take into account any goodwill and future opportunities that may be lost by publishing against the owner's wishes.

 checkmark 

I agree. Photographers in other fields have earned themselves a bad reputation by being inconsiderate. At the moment we seem to enjoy good relatinships with private owners of light aircraft (in my experience, anyway). Let's keep it that way.

Chris
 
wallace
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:51 pm

The owner must have something to hide. The fact is that the aircraft has crashed and it a mandatatory requirement to declare the accident as it well as entering details of the damage in the aircrafts log book.
English law is funny; you do need permission to publish photos taken on private property and your airfield may be private property. It would have been easier if you had taken the photo in a public place. So he's got you by the short and curlies.
"..... for beauty is written on the eye of the screener."
 
malandan
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Wallace (Reply 8):
So he's got you by the short and curlies.

Well you could say that Wallace, but as I have already said, I have no intention of publishing the photo, basically for the same reason that Chris states in reply 7 - maintaining good relationships.

I may be wrong but I believe that all airfields are private property, either in single ownership or by a public company. As is the case with this location, many are not serviced by public roads so that it is impossible to take photos without being on private property even if not on the airfield itself.

The joy of light aircraft photography is in the informality. I visited a local parachute school recently and was escorted some distance out to the runway to photograph their prime mount both inside and outside. Can't see that happening quite so easily at most commercial locations.
You get to talk to pilots over coffee and bacon rolls, see aircraft being constructed and are even invited to take flights ....... and Heathrow pilots don't slide the cockpit window back and shout "prop" before they start up!

Not every ones cup of tea but it's my slice of aeronautical heaven and not a boat I'm going to rock over one interesting but relatively unimportant image!

Malcolm.
My interest lies in the future as I am going to spend the rest of my life there!
 
photopilot
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Permission To Publish Not Given.

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:32 am

Ok, two completely separate issues here.

Firstly, there was no denial of permission to take the photos AT THE TIME THEY WERE TAKEN. Therefore you have no legal obligation to NOT publish and the decision is entirely yours. IMHO.

Now the CRITICAL MATTER.

This aircraft has been damaged to a non-airworthy condition (it was trailered back) and the "new owner" has stated he is going to put it back into flying shape.
Questions.
1) Was the accident/incident reported as required?
2) Is the aircraft being "legally" repaired or will it become a "homebuilt" repair?
3) Could the aircraft then be sold to an unsuspecting buyer as No-Damage-History?

As you the photographer are aware of this, I believe it would be YOUR responsibility to give a telephone call to the relevant government office (It would be Transport Canada here in Canada, not sure about England) and make an enquiry about the accident (using the aircraft reg #). If the Gov't reports no accident, then LET THEM KNOW and they'll send an inspector around. If not, you could be setting in motion a chain of events that could have critical consequences. If the accident was reported, well no problem at all and you'll have a clear conscience.

As a licensed pilot and aviator, that's my suggestion that you report the accident and the situation just to play it on the SAFETY side. It's called being responsible.

Steve

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