n314as
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:30 pm

The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:37 am

Suddenly, there are thousands of professional aviation photography companies out there that I haven't heard of. These same "Digital" photogs are shooting props at 1/1000 freezing them on the photo making the plane look like the engines are off. Others are now hiring pilots to fly over airports and taking cropped telephoto shots of planes landing and taking off and calling yourselves "Air to Air" photographers. Most of you probably don't know what PSA or Air Cal meant. Let me repeat: An air to air photographer is a person who is set up to fly NEXT to an airplane, usually established by an airline or airplane owner. John Dibbs, Bob Shane, Chuck Stewart, Paul Bowen, and the late George Hall are samples of REAL air to air photographers. These people have been doing this for a living and have established themselves with film and digital. Flying 4000 feet over LAX and taking a rotation shot is NOT air to air. This photography is called AIR to Ground. It is not set up by an airline or company. Digital does not make you a professional photographer overnight. You must still follow the same rules as in shooting slides....full frame (Not Cropped), sunny, etc. If you really have a company that markets aviation photos to professional companies (i.e. Check Six Photography), then call yourselves Pros, otherwise, don't.
No signature
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:46 am

Hi Joe  Smile

I sense your frustration, but your slides still kick ass.

Pretty hard to compare photos from someone like George Hall to most of the photos on A.net.
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting N314AS (Thread starter):
Flying 4000 feet over LAX and taking a rotation shot is NOT air to air.

Who said it was? Not me buddy.  Smile

Quoting N314AS (Thread starter):
call yourselves Pros, otherwise, don't.

I never have called myself a pro. Although I think I do take a bloody good photo (occasionally).  Wink
 
n314as
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:30 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:54 am

Thanks. I just want people to know what real photographers go thru and not just this overnight sentation stuff. There are great photos out there, I admit, but not everyone has a company like they state. Those air to ground shots are neat, but had there been slides, those would not have happened. Digital photographers crop their photos to make them look full frame but I can assure that some of those takeoff shots are cropped.

J
No signature
 
n314as
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:30 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:56 am

Hello 9V. Thanks for the reply. I am just making some people know that flying over LAX does not make you a pro photographer like some of those mentioned. There are many here who do take great photos on digital but don't brag about it. I am not against everyone. I admire many on this site for quality stuff....it's just that some go too far but they don't have a clue what it was to shoot on slide or other film to be successful.

Cheers

J
No signature
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting N314AS (Reply 3):
Thanks. I just want people to know what real photographers go thru

I totally agree and I have nothing but the upmost respect for those guys. If I was even 10% as good as them I'd be happy.  Smile
 
User avatar
ThierryD
Crew
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:03 am

I sense that someone is pi""ed here but I've got the impression that I missed the beginning of the story?
What got you so upset if I may ask?

Cheers,

Thierry (great admirer of George Hall's photography and former slide shooter  Wink)
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
D L X
Posts: 11696
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting N314AS (Thread starter):
Suddenly, there are thousands of professional aviation photography companies out there that I haven't heard of.

Why does all this bother you?
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:41 am

Joe,

Technology has improved at such a rapid pace over the last few years and I have no doubt it will improve even further in the years to come. And to some it probably has come like a bolt out of the blue. That's just called progress and you can't really blame photographers for that.

If you have a specific issue with someone, probably best to take it up with them personally. To me it's a hobby and it's fun.  Smile
 
n314as
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:30 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:04 am

DLX - First, I am not criticizing most people....I know there are good digital shooters out there. When slides were the only things available, only the good photographers succeded. You had to make right shots or your money was down the drain. Today, there is more of an ego of putting a shot up to be most popular etc than before. They are taking digital photos, cropping them, and uploading them right there at the spotters sites via wireless computers. I know some who have missed a great day of shooting only to go home and upload a hot item before anyone else does. This is becoming a stupid drug instead of a friendly outing. To me, I can care less who is first. Quality comes first! Some of the old "bad" slide shooters are suddenly pros. Digital is nice but it is dummy proof. The art of doing a great shot is over. Thanks to digital, now all these "pros" are coming out of the closet and this hurts the real companies who have made a living with aviation photography. I do not criticize a good digital shot....some are full frame and well taken (some by former slide shooters), but I criticize those that think they are now better than George Hall and they should be hired by Clay Lacy to replace him. Again, hiring a Cessna or a news helicopter to say they are air to air photographers puts a stab on the real air to air photogs of the past (and present).
No signature
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:06 am

I agree but disagree.

I don't upload to A.net for two main reasons:

1) I can't use photoshop (becuase I'm a photographer not a graphic designer!)
2) I submit a lot of my work to the aviation press and I'm not sure they'd like my pics plastered all over the internet

I have been blasted in these forums on occasion for not uploading my photos, and it has been suggested that, because I don't upload, my images must be crap. I came from slide photography and with that, everything had to be, as you said, spot on. You couldn't crop, level, sharpen, brighten or any of the other things you can do to 'tweak' your pics post-capture today. With digital, I use the camera (not Photoshop) to get the images right, just as I did with slide. I get full-frame shots, with sun on the aircraft, and preferably with a blue sky. It's hard work but I make damn sure the planes are EXACTLY in the middle of the frame, and I check each and every shot for focusing errors, vignetting, bokeh, etc. I think what Joe's trying to say here is that some pics on this database would be nowhere near as good as they are if we were still shooting on slide, and I think he's probably questioning if some of today's digital photog's actually have the full know-how with the camera they're using rather than just the necessary Photoshop skills. I for one don't like the fact that, if I were to upload here, my pictures would be judged by my editing skills post-capture and not by the composition or skill required to actually capture the photo in the first place.

On the other hand, I disagree because digital should be for everyone, and it should open doors for those who want great shots but haven't got the time to sit down for weeks learning about every function of their camera. We are photographers, and presumably we all love the hobby and we all like looking at other peoples' shots, however they've been taken/edited. We cannot really knock those who crop to hell because at the end of the day it's their choice, and they certainly aren't doing anyone else any harm. To me, the way people take and process their shots is irrelevant - as long as they're happy, then so be it. And more to the point, as long as A.net and its followers are happy, then so be it too!

Cheers,

Karl
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10908
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting N314AS (Reply 3):
I just want people to know what real photographers go thru and not just this overnight sentation stuff

What are you saying? That someone buys a DSLR and the next day they are taking great pics? This is not true, believe it or not you still have some photography skills.

Quoting N314AS (Reply 4):
it's just that some go too far but they don't have a clue what it was to shoot on slide or other film to be successful.

Come on, I know someone who shoots for Sports Illustrated and he is a very accomplished professional photog, after he shoots a hockey or football game he hands in the CF cards. You think those images are used in their raw state? Of course not, they are cropped and leveled and sharpened etc. Does that make him not a professional photographer? He has shot film and now shoots digital. The DSLR and Photshop are part of the evolvement of technology and photography. Sounds like someone is having a hard time with that. If you feel people here that shoot digital and then use PS to edit their pics are less photographers than the ones from years ago great. but I don't try to say their accomplishments are overnight. Truth is there is some talent there.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am

You just have to go with the flow Joe. I think if you are good then you are good no matter what gear you are using. The photog makes the photo not the gear. And if you are really that good you will carry on being good and still be better than the rest. And if you are not them maybe you were'nt as good as you though in the first place. Just my 2c.  Smile
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 11):
The DSLR and Photshop are part of the evolvement of technology and photography.

DSLR, yes; Photoshop, no.

To me, photography is the ability to capture images well by simply using the camera alone. Photoshop doesn't MAKE your pictures (you and your camera do that), it simply enhances them. OK, the press and other publications may wish to have the pics edited, but that's simply because they CAN, not because the photographer has made a mess or that they are otherwise unacceptable.

I'm sure such publications would settle for the unedited, raw version if they had to, providing the original was up to scratch.

I can't/won't use Photoshop simply because I'm old-fashioned (I'm only 28, for Christ's sake - what am I saying?!), but I wouldn't think any less of a photographer if they chose to use it. I dare say that there are a lot of good ex-slide photographers out there who now rely on Photoshop simply because it makes things a whole lot easier. Not my cup of tea but if it's there, why not use it?

Karl

[Edited 2006-10-17 20:28:10]
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
Photoshop doesn't MAKE your pictures (you and your camera do that

Yes I know and that's why some of my BEST images have required the LEAST amount of editing. You still have to get the shot EXACTLY how you want it in the first place so don't give me that crap. I agree about the air to air issue but the rest just sounds like sour grapes on your part.  Yeah sure
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:35 am

Im not sure where your beef has come from, looks like some sour grapes, technology changes and it has in a huge way, any tom dick or harry can get a DSLR but the time has changed.
I dont think anyone has disputed the great photog's you mention but to critisize someone hiring a cessna to take a pic of what you call air to ground is a bit harsh.

I may not be an expert but "Air to ground" says to me a shot taken whilst you are in the air of an aircraft physically on the ground.

An "Air to Air" shot says to me a shot taken whilst you are in the air and the aircraft subject also being in the air regardless of the angle or stage of its flight.

so those rotation shots of aircraft taken at LAX from the air say to me they are also "Air to Air".

so i disagree with you on the definition of the above!

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
timdegroot
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:37 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:35 am

Joe, I can show you some of these "fake" Air-2-airs that will blow away a lot of "Real" ones. Semantics in my opinion, all that matters is the end product.

Agree with you for the rest though, nothing beats a perfect slide Wink

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:39 am

There's no sour grapes at all. I'm simply trying to put what Joe said into some kind of perspective before he gets an earful.....

I agree with some of his points but disagree with others. To some, Photoshop is a taboo. To others, it is a way of digital life. No-one's right and no-one's wrong, each to their own. I personally won't use it, but I understand why some do. I don't think Joe's suggesting that anyone who uses Photoshop for editing isn't a real photographer, more the fact that there is increasing potential for folks to make mediocre shots look good. And if you can get away with that, why not? I sure wish I could make some of my old slides look good...

All said, everyone takes crap pics from time to time (even pro's stuff up!), it's just that some (like me) bin them and others take them home, play with them and somehow make them look alright.

The whole idea of digital (whether it be SLR or compact) is to make things easier, and to make photography available to those who don't know a lot about it. Although a DSLR can be set to simply 'point-and-shoot', it's generally accepted that most users know at least a handful about photography.

Karl

[Edited 2006-10-17 20:45:47]
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
There's no sour grapes at all

You could have fooled me.  Yeah sure

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
To some, Photoshop is a taboo

Why though? Honestly, what's so bad about it? Why is it to some like showing a crucifix to a vampire? It's just progression. I'd have thought you would have embraced it since it's there to help you.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
it's just that some (like me) bin them and others take them home, play with them and somehow make them look alright.

That isn't true at all. On my last trip I took around 300 pics. Out of those I think I found about 10-15 that I thought were any good (IMO). Believe me, if I think a shot is crap I'll bin it there and then, I won't try and save a bad shot by using Photoshop.
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting 9V (Reply 18):
Why though? Honestly, what's so bad about it?

Nothing's bad about it, I just don't want to use it. Is there anything wrong with that?

Quoting 9V (Reply 18):
You could have fooled me.

Well I fooled you then. All I want is good, side-on shots in perfect sunlight, end of story. Creative shots, such as those taken from a Cessna at LAX, just don't appeal to me and I've no desire to take them. They're kind of interesting but they all begin to look the same after a while. That's not to say they aren't great photo's, of course - but they are no better than a lot of other images in the database. Having a Cessna to fly around in doesn't make us great photographers. And the photographer in question is Sam Chui, who regardless of the Cessna is actually a very competent photographer.

Karl
 
User avatar
ThierryD
Crew
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting N314AS (Reply 9):
When slides were the only things available, only the good photographers succeded. You had to make right shots or your money was down the drain.

Yeah, but even then good photographers took hundreds and hundreds of shots to get the few ones that really worked and which they could make money with. Only now with digital photography it's much easier to handle.

Quoting N314AS (Reply 9):
Today, there is more of an ego of putting a shot up to be most popular etc than before. They are taking digital photos, cropping them, and uploading them right there at the spotters sites via wireless computers.

That is just a personal attitude thing; this also existed before the digital age, only then they didn't have wireless computers.  Wink

Quoting N314AS (Reply 9):
Digital is nice but it is dummy proof. The art of doing a great shot is over.

No way!!!  no 
Digital makes some things (like exposure) much easier to handle but getting a really good shot is just as difficult as with the analog cameras as you have to get the right moment and light and no camera in the world can help you with that. Also I don't really understand the issue you have with cropping photos; this is just a tool you may easily use with digital photography but is largely dependent on what you use your photos for; for the use on A.net with uploads being accepted from 667x1000pixels on it certainly is used extensively and makes some photos look better than they actually are but for large print-outs you'll still have to get a good full frame.

Quoting N314AS (Reply 9):
Thanks to digital, now all these "pros" are coming out of the closet and this hurts the real companies who have made a living with aviation photography. I do not criticize a good digital shot....some are full frame and well taken (some by former slide shooters), but I criticize those that think they are now better than George Hall and they should be hired by Clay Lacy to replace him

That is not a new issue; there are also kids (and older kids) who fly around in Microsoft's Flight Simulator and think they could land a B747 in real life --> what do I care? Just let them believe it if it makes them happy...

Quoting N314AS (Reply 9):
Again, hiring a Cessna or a news helicopter to say they are air to air photographers puts a stab on the real air to air photogs of the past (and present).

In general I agree with you but already taking the initiative of doing that and getting in a position where you might take such an A2A (or A2G) shot and get it right surely deserves some recognition.

And in the end: a good shot is a good shot no matter who took it and whats written in the profession section of his/her business card.

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
Having a Cessna to fly around in doesn't make us great photographers.

I never said it did.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
Creative shots, such as those taken from a Cessna at LAX, just don't appeal to me

Whatever.
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting 9V (Reply 21):
Whatever.

Actually, the flying over LAX part interests me greatly, but the airborne photography bit certainly does not. OK, I'd probably give it a whirl but if I had the choice of that or being airside shooting rotations from beside the runway I'd much rather do the latter!

Karl
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 20):
there are also kids (and older kids) who fly around in Microsoft's Flight Simulator and think they could land a B747 in real life

Well it worked for the 9/11 hijackers so maybe these kids ain't so naive.....

Karl
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 22):
I'd probably give it a whirl but if I had the choice of that or being airside shooting rotations from beside the runway I'd much rather do the latter!

I'd rather be up in a Cessna, taking pics or not, but unfortunately that costs money I don't have.
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting 9V (Reply 24):
I'd rather be up in a Cessna, taking pics or not, but unfortunately that costs money I don't have.

Nah, I reckon it's much more exhilarating being at the rotation point! Again though, each to their own.....

Karl
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
Nah, I reckon it's much more exhilarating being at the rotation point! Again though, each to their own.....

Actually taking a Cessna up on a slightly overcast day and popping through the clouds into brilliant sunshine is an almost religious experience, that is more addictive than crack and arguably more expensive.

To the original poster, if you're good - and you obviously are - you've got nothing to worry about. However I must say I think there's more than a little case of sour grapes in there.


Cheers



James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 19):
All I want is good, side-on shots in perfect sunlight, end of story. Creative shots, such as those taken from a Cessna at LAX, just don't appeal to me and I've no desire to take them. They're kind of interesting but they all begin to look the same after a while.

And perfect side on shots all look the same to me....

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
Nah, I reckon it's much more exhilarating being at the rotation point! Again though, each to their own.....

your last 4 words said it perfectly - each to their own

Ryan

I personally want to try every angle i can get my hands on, good light or bad light, i dont want to limit myself to one type of shot like you have stated.
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Sulman (Reply 26):
that is more addictive than crack and arguably more expensive.

You sound like you have some experience! Big grin
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:30 am

What's the matter Joe? Can't handle the pressure now that the playing field is different?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
User avatar
ThierryD
Crew
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 23):
Well it worked for the 9/11 hijackers so maybe these kids ain't so naive.....

If your example wasn't so out of place I'd laugh at it!
But to your comment: those guys had actual flight training and they didn't actually land the planes, did they!!!  Yeah sure

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 27):
And perfect side on shots all look the same to me....

Truth be known, they all look the same to me, but my emphasis is on showing the plane and its full livery, which with an angle I can't achieve.

I also won't bother going out to an airport in cloudy conditions. I know you can get some great creative masterpeces with spray and all that but it just ain't for me. If, however, I see an easy opportunity for a good creative shot I do go for it, usually with successful results. Surprisingly, I do have plenty of such photo's in my collection, but I don't enjoy looking at them. For me, getting the perfect side-on shot gives me a sense of achievement - and believe me, thay are every bit as difficult to capture as a good creative.

Karl
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 25):
I reckon it's much more exhilarating being at the rotation point!

Like this you mean? Big grin

*warning: gratuitous plug*


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Meadows

 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:38 am

I've read through this and am somewhat confused. Who are these "thousands" of professional photographers? I certainly don't count myself as one. Enthusiastic amateur maybe, professional, no. Like most on this site.

And I also came from a slide background. Unfortunately, I never had the skill to make my pictures perfect on film. Now, with some editing and luck I can produce a pretty good picture.

Currently I am attempting to scan in some of my better slides, which is proving traumatic to say the least. Digital has helped me understand better what I have been doing wrong and I am slowly getting some reasonable images. And thanks to Photoshop Elements 4 I am able to recover what might have been totally lost.

I am also "into" aeroplanes and have been for the last 45+ years. I may not be completely immersed in who. what, why and where but they still give me a thrill and I get excited everytime I manage to get a flight somewhere. If I thought I could get someone to fly me over the threshold at LAX I would be there like a shot - and I'd buy a new camera for the occasion!

There are thousands of excellent pictures in this database all taken by people like me. Not many of whom profess to call themselves "professionals" But the one thing they can call themselves is aviation photographers. They take pictures of aviation in all it's many and varied forms. And if some of them manage to sell pictures, then that's bloody marvelous.

So live and let live. If you think the philosophy behind current picture taking is wrong, well, thats life.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:39 am

well if that 747 is about to rotate it used all but 12ft of runway!!!

And by the angle of the nosewheel it might just rotate in the viewing park!!!

The mounds are OK but I prefer action side-ons, such as those available from Joe's Field or the triangle by 24L.

Karl
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 33):
Digital has helped me understand better what I have been doing wrong and I am slowly getting some reasonable images.

Totally agree. One thing digital has done is to give photographers a better understanding of the parameters with which they deal when taking pictures.

Karl
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 34):
I prefer action side-ons, such as those available from Joe's Field or the triangle by 24L.

Show us a decent example then! I'm interested - pick a shot that you consider what you really like and post it.  Smile
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:48 am

...And when I said 'rotation', I meant more like this...

Big version: Width: 3456 Height: 2304 File size: 2014kb


Karl
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:57 am

Yeah but Karl, I've only got a tiny 15" monitor. That pic is way to big for me to view on my screen.  Sad

It would take 5 seconds in Photoshop to reduce it to 1024 pixels wide so I could see the whole pic in one go on my monitor instead of scrolling up and down for ages. That way more people would be able to view your photo's and appreciate them - which at the end of the day is what it's all about isn't it?
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting 9V (Reply 38):
which at the end of the day is what it's all about isn't it?

Well yeah, but I don't own Photoshop, and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did!

Although it's nice for others to see and comment on your pictures, I do it more for my own personal satisfaction. I love having an album full of shots from around the world and feel extremely proud of it, whether others see it or not.

If I ever get Photoshop (I saw the CS2 version, whatever that is, in a store the other day for GB£49 (about US$90) - it had no box but was complete with manual) I will be asking for some sound advice here!

Karl
 
ua935
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:41 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:04 am

Having read this entire thread I am confused.

What started all this? The thread starter clearly has a beef with someone but has failed to substantiate their gripe.

Personally there is a place for perfect side on's and air to air/ground shots over LAX and it's A.net, whatever you like it is here in one place.

Seems like everyone has got their knickers in a twist over nothing.
Live every second like you mean it
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10908
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
DSLR, yes; Photoshop, no

What about dust spots? Or other imperfections? As people have said before PS is best when it is used sparingly. Less is more. PS has become part of the landscape with photography.

Quoting 9V (Reply 14):
Yes I know and that's why some of my BEST images have required the LEAST amount of editing. You still have to get the shot EXACTLY how you want it in the first place

 checkmark 

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 20):
Yeah, but even then good photographers took hundreds and hundreds of shots to get the few ones that really worked and which they could make money with. Only now with digital photography it's much easier to handle.

Well said.

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 15):
An "Air to Air" shot says to me a shot taken whilst you are in the air and the aircraft subject also being in the air regardless of the angle or stage of its flight.

What does it matter anyway? If someone decides to get up in a Cessna and take pics that is his choice. The end product is what counts and many here love those shots. Including myself.

Quoting 9V (Reply 32):
Like this you mean?

*warning: gratuitous plug*

Very nice photo!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 39):
Well yeah, but I don't own Photoshop, and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did!

Just ask! Someone at MAN will probably even give you a copy for nothing and it's easy to learn. You must have got some sort of editing software with your computer when you bought it. I got Photoshop free with my PC.
 
ChrisH
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:25 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 31):
Surprisingly, I do have plenty of such photo's in my collection, but I don't enjoy looking at them. For me, getting the perfect side-on shot gives me a sense of achievement - and believe me, thay are every bit as difficult to capture as a good creative.

Talk is cheap. Show some shots then.
And no, the simple sideons are not diffcult to capture. At all.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
What about dust spots?

I use a Giotti 'Rocket Blower' to remove any dust before every shoot. Since I've been doing this I have NEVER had a problem with dust-spots.
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
What does it matter anyway? If someone decides to get up in a Cessna and take pics that is his choice. The end product is what counts and many here love those shots. Including myself.

I think you have misunderstood - plz read again, your implying by your tone that i am condeming A2A? I am all for it, just the thread starter i dont agree with

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 43):
And no, the simple sideons are not diffcult to capture. At all.

They are if you want them full-frame and EXACTLY in the middle without using Photoshop - especially if they're on the move.

My talk is cheap? You want to see some of my pics? OK, then........

Big version: Width: 3456 Height: 2304 File size: 2949kb


Big version: Width: 3456 Height: 2304 File size: 1900kb


Big version: Width: 3456 Height: 2304 File size: 1961kb


Big version: Width: 3456 Height: 2304 File size: 1927kb


Maybe if you look hard enough they may need editing in some way, I really don't know. Perhaps in their rawest form they wouldn't make it into the database. Please feel free to mention if you think they could do with a visit to Photoshop.

Karl
 
ChrisH
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:25 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:31 am

they're all a bit low in the frame but nice shots. But still just snapshots. Nothing wrong with that, just don't say they are hard to capture. A little practice and there you go.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
9V
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 47):
just don't say they are hard to capture

Ouch!  Silly
 
JakTrax
Posts: 4659
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: The "New" Professional Photographers

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:45 am

Well put it this way, if I snap 300 shots in one airport visit, they don't all come out like that! I find it pretty difficult to get them exactly in the middle, full-frame, or maybe I'm just a crap photographer? Presumably every side-on you take is perfectly in the middle, full-frame then, is it?

You're basically saying that the creatives YOU take are more difficult to get than the side-ons I take, and that mine are just snap-shots which any mug with a compact can shoot. You may as well just say I'm a beginner at this game and I'm starting with the most basic of shots. I know a few plane photog's who would certainly not like to hear what you've just said. I happen to prefer side-ons, which are just as easy/hard/whatever to take as anything else. What you're doing is putting people whose preferences are different to yours in a lower ability category than yourself. I'm not going to search through my creatives (which are backed up on CD) and post them here purely for the benefit of the doubtful on this forum.

Karl

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos