LIPH
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Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:08 am

Hy all,
have been recently the following pic rejected also for motive :

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...1116_usair_che_decolla_da_roma.jpg

Cannot understand why...
Any suggestion is welcome.

Thanks.

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
codeshare
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:12 am

Yeah, a suggestion would be nice. A misunderstanding IMHO.

KS/codeshare
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ThierryD
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:30 am

The screener hit a wrong button for sure; motivewise the shot is perfectly ok but it's somewhat dark, a little jagged and it could also go for a quality rejection due to the lack of detail.

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
Lanas
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:43 am

Hi

The picture is pretty jagged. Be careful with that. Also can fall for a dark rejection.
As for the motive, I think the issue here is more of a 'distance' rejection. You should be cropping tighter on the plane.
Hope it helps.

Cheers!
Lanas.-
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
 
LIPH
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:05 am

Yes, guys,
in fact the shot was also rejected for quality, dark and distance, but actually could not figgure out what was wrong with the motive....

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:13 am

Looks like motiv was a mistake. Here are the rejections the picture in question received:

NOA_quality
NOA_motiv
NOA_dark
NOA_distance
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
Looks like motiv was a mistake. Here are the rejections the picture in question received:

interesting..i had a similar shot of an AA A300 rejected for motive also, my jaw near fell to the flaw when i read it.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:34 am

Not really Monty, yours was a note about the crop (not centered) along with a personal note from the screener who rejected it.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Not really Monty, yours was a note about the crop (not centered) along with a personal note from the screener who rejected it.

so it did contain a personal note..but what did motive have to do with it? surely centered would've been the appropriate catergory?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:38 am

some screeners use "motiv" for a "bad crop."

Either way it was rejected correctly.
 
cosec59
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
some screeners use "motiv" for a "bad crop."

Well that's ok then  Yeah sure

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
Either way it was rejected correctly.

But just the wrong reason given.
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:57 am

You are right Phil.

Another inconsistency on the part of the screening team. For whatever reason the screener choose motiv + a personal note instead of "centered." Many times we use motiv + a personal note, I usually say something like "crop" or "awkward crop."

Just curious, have you actually seen the photo in question, or are you just wanting to point out the lack of consistency?
 
cosec59
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 11):
Just curious, have you actually seen the photo in question,

Yup.
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
some screeners use "motiv" for a "bad crop."

go make yourself familiar with the rejection reasons of this site...you just opened yourself a can of contradiction with that comment. nice to know we're not all on the same page when it comes to rejection reasons and the guidelines posted on the rejections page.

note or not..i don't see anything in the rejections page under motive that makes mention of centering, though i expected not to as they are two different things altogether..aren't they?

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/..._1326copyright_mms_jan06n11060.jpg

motivate me baby...

[Edited 2006-12-28 00:02:49]

[Edited 2006-12-28 00:04:24]
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:03 am

don't know what to tell you Monty. I've been screening for 2+ years and this is the first I have heard anyone complain about my use of motiv to point out a bad crop.
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 13):
go make yourself familiar with the rejection reasons of this site...

This actually applies for the people of both sides of the screening process and that's why this here exists: Illustrated Guide To Rejection Reasons (by ThierryD Dec 25 2006 in Aviation Photography)

Have fun!

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
cosec59
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 10):
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
some screeners use "motiv" for a "bad crop."

Well that's ok then

So it's not " some screeners" then Royal.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
I've been screening for 2+ years and this is the first I have heard anyone complain about my use of motiv to point out a bad crop.

I think it's a valid complaint having viewed the photo in question a few times.
Perhaps you should read TZ's fair and courteous comments about screeners proof reading before posting.
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
don't know what to tell you Monty. I've been screening for 2+ years and this is the first I have heard anyone complain about my use of motiv to point out a bad crop.

well it's the first time i've encountered it...motive for centering, bit like chalk for cheese, whatever floats the boat i guess. if you didn't read your emails and relied soley on the rejection page like i do (i have mine in my bookmarks) then you'd be a little puzzled. because the only reason shown was motive...doesn't tell me to check my email for a personal note...sure enough there was a personal note.

if i see motive on the rejection page i'd expect there to be something wrong with clutter, lack of motivation etc, not the centering of the image.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:12 am

Phil, my response was in answer to Monty's comment, I won't speak for the other screeners, but sleep well knowing that I am not the only screener who uses motiv for a bad crop.

Not sure what you are meaning about me not proof reading my comments. They look spot on to me. Sorry if you disagree (Imagine my shock!).
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:13 am

if i see motive on the rejection page i'd expect there to be something wrong with clutter, lack of motivation etc, not the centering of the image.

Fair enough Monty, all good comments. This is a dead issue unless whoever rejected it decides to jump in on this thread, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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acontador
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:36 am

Just a little late here, but one interesting point indeed, as many of the photogs (particularly the new ones) do not have experience with the screening process, and thus have to rely solely on the rejection page for any guidance. And I think we all agree that that particular page needs an urgent update to reflect the reality of the screening process. In this case, it should be clearly stated that the 'motive' rejection does not only refer to 'what' you show in the picture but also to 'how' you show it. Then I suspect things will become much clearer.
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
LIPH
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Acontador (Reply 20):
In this case, it should be clearly stated that the 'motive' rejection does not only refer to 'what' you show in the picture but also to 'how' you show it. Then I suspect things will become much clearer.

Good point : yes, actually it would be good to know *how not to show it* rather than how it should be...

Regards
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ThierryD
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting Acontador (Reply 20):
as many of the photogs (particularly the new ones) do not have experience with the screening process, and thus have to rely solely on the rejection page for any guidance.

Not anymore!  Wink
Illustrated Guide To Rejection Reasons (by ThierryD Dec 25 2006 in Aviation Photography)

The guide:
http://planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm


Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
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acontador
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 22):
Not anymore!

Illustrated Guide To Rejection Reasons (by ThierryD Dec 25 2006 in Aviation Photography)

The guide:
http://planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm

Yes Thierry, I know this is a great thing you have put together, but not all photogs use this forum, and probably even more so in the case of newer photogs. Maybe it could be possible to put a link to your Guide in that page on A.net?
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Acontador (Reply 23):
Yes Thierry, I know this is a great thing you have put together, but not all photogs use this forum, and probably even more so in the case of newer photogs. Maybe it could be possible to put a link to your Guide in that page on A.net?

I'm aware of this Andres, but I'd like to start by getting people who use the forum to use the guide for acceptance criteria guidance; a fix link on the upload page of A.net would of course be much more effective but you know how long it can take A.net to implement such changes...
The more people know about the guide the more its use will spread and the more people deliver feedback to it and their rejection issues the more extensive and thus effectice the guide will become!  Wink

Thierry
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jorge1812
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:49 am

To join this thread.

please tell me the motiv here?

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...061217_D-AVRJ_ARJ_LH_101206_14.jpg

Is it the fence?

Georg
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 25):

The reason for the motive rejection must be the fence I suppose - too distracting for a photo of a common aircraft.

What are the chances of this queued one of mine? Blocked gear, fuselage shape kind of cut off.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/5X-DAS-1ptr.jpg
Peter Smile
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acontador
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:33 am

Hi,

Georg, I would agree to the fence, although it is a hash call. Maybe it is also the crop, as you could crop closer to the aircraft and thus leave more fence and grey sky out of the picture.

Peter, I think your picture suffers from what you say, mostly the cut out fuselage for my taste, and that half of the whole picture is in the shadow, not nice for a close up  no   Wink
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
digital-cavu
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:50 am

I have to admit, I'm a bit confused about the motiv rejection as well. I offered two shots that got rejected for motiv (and possibly other things, which I'm cool with) but I didn't understand the motiv comment.

Here they are:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/20061117_78-0621.jpg

and

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...tions/big/20061215_Raptor_nose.jpg

They're both focused on the nose, but I've seen plenty of other nose shots, so I don't think that's it.

Screeners? Other knowledgeable folks?
United States Navy submarine sailor turned aviation photography geek.
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 26):



Quoting Acontador (Reply 27):

Thanks for the hints.

Quoting Acontador (Reply 27):
Maybe it is also the crop, as you could crop closer to the aircraft and thus leave more fence and grey sky out of the picture.

It's 1200x828pix so not much space which can be cropped out.

Georg
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Digital-cavu (Reply 28):

Del,

The A-10 has the nosewheel and canopy cut off, and that's not acceptable here. The other one is interesting, but shows only part of the nose, and such close-ups always run the risk of a rejection as a.net doesn't want people to start uploading close-ups of all imaginable parts of planes.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting Digital-cavu (Reply 28):
Screeners? Other knowledgeable folks?

quoting from:
http://planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm

"...note that motive rejections can also result from other, more subjective reasons. These are usually of an aesthetical nature.
... This is the most subjective rejection reason, sometimes simply that a photograph does not balance well, an unusual crop or similar. This rejection also occurs at times when a photographer tries something new but the screeners do not feel that the final image has been successful. Reasons (or excuses) for any such failure are not important, only the final image is considered."

In your case Del, the A-10 has part of the canopy and port engine nacelle cut for no obvious reason; that makes the shot look unbalanced. Unless you have a wider crop available which you could edit accordingly I don't think the shot may be saved for A.net.

Same for the F-22; the nose has been cut off too high and too much dead space on top of the canopy. In addition you got some softness issue here.
Apart from that very nice shot and if you have a wider crop available it would be worth another try.

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
digital-cavu
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:11 am

Thanks you guys for the comments. They all make sense! Happy new year!

Del
United States Navy submarine sailor turned aviation photography geek.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 26):

The picture discussed there was accepted, despite going outside the book yes 

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong


How could I be negative in another thread? Thanks screeners! bigthumbsup 

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
aussie18
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:14 pm

Nice photo Peter,good to see it added!
 
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acontador
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RE: Rejected For Motive?

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:30 pm

Well done Peter! I am glad I was wrong  Big grin
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