TACAA320
Topic Author
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New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:42 pm

Greetings !

I'm seriously interested in a new camera. I'm thinking to upgrade from 8 to 10 mega pixels. My concern is if the D80 or the 400. I doesn't know which lens also [main interest: some indoors family picture, and try some shots outside, spotting].

I actually have a D350 and a D70 [which is 6.0].

My budget is limited to US$5,000.

Thanks a lot !

H
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
viv
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:59 pm

For indoor family pictures and aircraft photgraphy, get a D80 with the Nikkor 18-200 VR lens. And you will have a big chunk of change left over.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
chris78cpr
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:05 am

I just got a 400d and it's awesome. Pick one of them up.  Smile

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:08 am

Any advantage of the D80 over the 400 or viceversa?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
viv
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
Any advantage of the D80 over the 400 or viceversa?

The D80 is essentially a D200 in a plastic body with some ergonomic simplification.

Amazing camera for the money.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:35 am

Thanks a lot for the advice !
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
IL76
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:38 am

Have you run into any limitations with the 350D?

E
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 6):
Have you run into any limitations with the 350D?

Not at all. Just want something better.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
IL76
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:53 am

It won't be much different, just 100-or-so pixels left and right. Unless you already have an excellent lens lineup, I'd advice you to put your money into good lenses.

Cheers,
E
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 8):
I'd advice you to put your money into good lenses.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I'm seriously considering that.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
psyops
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:21 am

Not sure that the extra pixels are worth it unless there is some other feature upgrade you are after (i.e. weather tight, lower iso, etc)

Ken Rockwell just posted a comparison you should check out.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/d200-d80-d70-d50-d40-5d-xti.htm

Pete
 
TedTAce
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
Amazing camera for the money.

I love my d80 I think it's going to be a great friend for a long time!!
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NIKV69
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 11):
I love my d80 I think it's going to be a great friend for a long time!!

Ted a Nikonian! This is good news. Good luck with it. The 80-200 2.8 is a kick ass lens to go with that body.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:04 pm

Quoting Psyops (Reply 10):

Very interesting link!

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 11):
I love my d80

Have you ever tried the D200 ?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ATCme
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 11):
I love my d80 I think it's going to be a great friend for a long time!!

I totally agree: I love my family's too!

ATCme spin 
I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help. Really. Yes I'm serious, I'm here to help you.
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
Amazing camera for the money.

As is the 400D. At the end of the day, current Nikon users will wax lyrical about the D80, Canon users about the 400D. To summise, they are both capable cameras, neither is really better than the other and they will both produce more-than-good-enough images. Call me biased but I do reckon Canon has the more impressive lens line-up. On another note, I upgraded from a 350D to a 400D, however unless you're like myself (must have the latest all-singing, all-dancing camera) it really isn't worth it (in my opinion).

Karl
 
JeffM
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 15):
I upgraded from a 350D to a 400D, however unless you're like myself (must have the latest all-singing, all-dancing camera) it really isn't worth it (in my opinion).

If you needed the latest "all singing, all dancing" camera....why in the world would you buy a 400?
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:06 pm

I meant in that price bracket - I'd rather put aside the majority of my budget for lenses.
 
viv
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
I'd rather put aside the majority of my budget for lenses.

Good policy!
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
TedTAce
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 13):
Have you ever tried the D200 ?

Nope, and until I have the money for one off of the D80, I'm not going to...Unless I win the lottery  Wink
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jamesbaldwyn
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:30 am

D80 Everytime better lenses too and more choice on accessaries
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting Jamesbaldwyn (Reply 20):
better lenses too and more choice on accessaries

Your source for this comment? With all due respect, I'm afraid it's commonly accepted than Canon is king of lenses when it comes to choice.

Karl
 
ChrisH
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 21):
With all due respect, I'm afraid it's commonly accepted than Canon is king of lenses when it comes to choice.

No, its just something you put forward whenever you can. I much prefer the nikon lens lineup, so do many others, and as far as image quality goes they're both equally great.

with all due respect, Canon aint king of nothing.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 22):
I much prefer the nikon lens lineup, so do many others, and as far as image quality goes they're both equally great.

Many people do indeed prefer the Nikon line-up but Canon does have more choice - grab a brochure from each manufacturer and count 'em. You'll find that Canon has 5-6 versions of a 70-200 alone - not including those offered by third parties. In addition, I never said Canon lenses produce better images. In my eyes, Canon and Nikon are exactly equal. What Canons lack Nikons have and vice-versa - Canon greater lens choice and Nikon better built bodies, for instance.

Karl
 
aero145
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 23):
Many people do indeed prefer the Nikon line-up but Canon does have more choice

More choice of versions is true, but lens *ranges*, I think not. You said:

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 23):
Canon has 5-6 versions of a 70-200 alone

which is wrong, as Canon has "only" 4 versions (f/4, f/4 IS, f/2.8, f/2.8 IS), and I think that pushes the number of lenses up by quite a bit (28-105 is 4 versions I think et cetera).

d

PS:

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 22):
Canon aint king of nothing

With no offence, Chris, but are you sure you did this right? I thought that double negative means positive...  confused 

[Edited 2007-01-02 00:12:49]
 
ChrisH
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 24):
With no offence, Chris, but are you sure you did this right? I thought that double negative means positive...

It's a colloquialism. Pretty common expression too.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
linco22
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:51 am

With $5000 you can get alot with that. If the body presents no limitations for you, then buy new glass. As to what glass, well thats up to you. Maybe a 100-400 if you need the reach, if not the 70-200 2.8 IS will suit. The 24-70 is a cracking lens too and maybe if you had some dollars left over, a nice wide angle such as the 10-22.

Enjoy your spending, I wish I had that money

Regards
Colin
 
aero145
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting ChrisH (Reply 25):
It's a colloquialism.

I understand... but I thought that there were only people from US that use it.  Silly

Quoting Linco22 (Reply 26):
Maybe a 100-400 if you need the reach, if not the 70-200 2.8 IS will suit. The 24-70 is a cracking lens too and maybe if you had some dollars left over, a nice wide angle such as the 10-22.

I'd recommend the 100-400L IS, 24-105L IS and 10-22 USM. All together will cost around $3100. There are $1900 left of your budget then, and I'd just save it for a better body when it comes out. How is that, TACAA320?

Or buy a 30D? I understand you want the 400D, $1900 are more than enough for that.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:38 pm

Is the resolution more important than the image processor? I tried out a Fujifilm S3 and although it was set at 10 megapixels, I found the quality to be around the same as a normal digital camera (lens is more expensive than the body). I'm in a similar position as TACAA320, but have my eyes set on the 400D. Will the photos from the 400D produce better quality ones than from the S3?

Thanks
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:23 pm

I bought a 400D in October and have also just invested in a 30D. I have used them side by side for a few weeks and I have to say that I prefer the 30D, in all aspects. The 400D's 10.1MP effective is noticeable when compared to the 350D's 8.0 effective, however I found that there is very little, if any, difference between images from the 30D's 8.2 effective and the 400D. Below is an image from the 400D. It has not been edited in any way but the sharpness within the camera was set to +5 (just playing around with all the settings that day).



I found the 400D underexposes quite badly, often requiring up to +2/3 of a stop compensation. This often results in me having to use 200 ISO because at 100 ISO, the shutter speeds at F/8 are too slow (anyone else experienced this, by the way - just out of interest?). To be honest, I don't understand this because, to get the exposure right, the camera should be selecting a decent enough shutter speed at 100 ISO - as my old 350D did at -1/3 - regardless of exposure compensation.

No problems really with the 30D - it overexposes slightly like the 350D but it isn't an issue for me. At least my shutter speed goes through the roof now at ISO 100 when I drop the compensation!

Karl

[Edited 2007-01-04 11:28:44]
 
viv
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 29):
the shutter speeds at F/8 are too slow

So don't shoot at f./8. Better to go to a larger aperture than a higher ISO sensitivity. I have many successful shots taken at f./4 and ISO 100. The alleged loss of sharpness with larger apertures is an Anet urban myth.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting Viv (Reply 30):
So don't shoot at f./8. Better to go to a larger aperture than a higher ISO sensitivity. I have many successful shots taken at f./4 and ISO 100. The alleged loss of sharpness with larger apertures is an Anet urban myth.

I see what you're saying but that's not the point. I do sometimes drop as low as F/6.3 on the rare occasions I shoot in low light, however my thinking is that if a 350D can get a correct exposure with F/8 at 100 then there's absolutely no reason why a 400D shouldn't. I could widen the aperture but I really shouldn't have to.

I will say, though, that the image I posted appears extremely sharp for ISO 200. I would not hesitate in recommending the 400D as I haven't really played around with it enough yet. I'm satisfied with the preliminary results.

Karl
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 27):
I'd recommend the 100-400L IS, 24-105L IS and 10-22 USM. All together will cost around $3100. There are $1900 left of your budget then, and I'd just save it for a better body when it comes out. How is that, TACAA320?

Sounds very interesting, specially that I have to consider good lenses as many of you recommend me.

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 27):

Or buy a 30D?

I know that some of you don't care too much about the "pixels", but if you compare the D30 [8 mega pixels] with the D400 [10 mega pixels] which one do you consider best?
Thanks a lot again for your help !
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
I know that some of you don't care too much about the "pixels", but if you compare the D30 [8 mega pixels] with the D400 [10 mega pixels] which one do you consider best?
Thanks a lot again for your help !

Both are excellent cameras but the 30D wins - just. Although the 400D is 10.1MP the overall quality of the 30D's images is superior, in my opinion (as I say I own both cams). The 30D also has spot metering, colour temp. adjust and offers bursts of 30 JPEGs at 5FPS.

Karl
 
spencer
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:46 am

Don't forget the 400D is made for people with midget hands!
Spencer.
(And yes Jeff, that's my most mature statement on the matter!)  duck 
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
aero145
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
I know that some of you don't care too much about the "pixels", but if you compare the D30 [8 mega pixels] with the D400 [10 mega pixels] which one do you consider best?

The 30D! Big grin

There are only things with the 400D that UN-interest me...

*Missing "settings screen"
*Tiny grip
*Plastic build
*3 fps

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
Sounds very interesting, specially that I have to consider good lenses as many of you recommend me.

I think many would agree with me with the 10-22, 24-105L IS and 100-400L IS. ... Out of interest; do you have a lot of experience with the Canon dSLR's?
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Aero145 (Reply 35):
Out of interest; do you have a lot of experience with the Canon dSLR's?

No sir. You can refer to me as a "beginner" in this business.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
aero145
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 36):
No sir. You can refer to me as a "beginner" in this business.

I started with a 20D.  Smile So if you start with 30D, 10-22, 24-105L IS and 100-400L IS, you'll have a LOT to learn, but I however feel that it won't be a problem.... So I would go for it.  Silly

I think experts should comment on this one.... Big grin



Regards,
Davy
 
IL76
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 36):
No sir. You can refer to me as a "beginner" in this business.

Not many beginners have 2 DSLR's at their disposal and buying a 3rd one.
No offence TACA, but a few months ago you asked on this forum what those numbers 4.5-5.6 mean on your lens. I'm sure you have learned a bit more since then, but when hearing such questions I wonder: Are you sure you need a 3rd DSLR?

E
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:10 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 38):
Are you sure you need a 3rd DSLR?

Thanks a lot for your question. It helps me to explain you [and everybody here] something. My two daughters [15 and 18] actually "own" my D70 and D350 respectively. They are actually with my wife in Italy in Greece on vacations, and according with my wife they shot at least 400 pictures.

I really can't share the cameras with them, so I prefer to own a good one [but for myself only].

Conclusion: I want a digital camera [a good one for a beginner, JUST FOR ME].
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Fly747
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 39):

That makes sense. If you are a beginner and can afford the top notch gear, more power to you I say.
Many people tend to get jealous.

Ivan
 
IL76
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 39):
I really can't share the cameras with them, so I prefer to own a good one [but for myself only].

Aha! Now I see...  Smile Well, in that case, a 400D would be a good place to start. The rest of the money in your budget would be nicely spent on lenses.

E
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:05 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 41):
Well, in that case, a 400D would be a good place to start. The rest of the money in your budget would be nicely spent on lenses.

Couldn't agree more. Forget the 30D for the moment, 'cos by the sound of it you really don't need it. The 400D with a couple of decent lenses I'm sure will be the perfect set-up for you.

Karl
 
spencer
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:03 pm

20D, 30D, 350D, 400D, whatever; if your main purpose is to upload (I'm not saying it is), then any of those mentioned will suffice as you aren't going to tell the difference on-screen anyway. How about a second hand 20D to start you out?
Spencer.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
monteycarlos
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:27 pm

TACA, remember the most important lesson a photographer can ever learn: A camera is only as good as the person using it.

For all this talk on Canon v. Canon, or Canon v. Nikon... it doesn't make a difference. I know guys that published books of photography with beginner dSLR's.

Personally, I have the 400D because I am on a limited budget, but take it from a former film projectionist and a now avid photographer that the best thing you can do is buy a camera like the 400D and then go with high quality optics (lenses to the non moving picture folk).

I believe that whatever camera you do buy (Canon v. Nikon) will be the one you stick with in the future if you do decide to upgrade so I'd probably refer you to dpreview where you will be able to get a really in-depth comparison. As can be demonstrated from this forum, what works for some might not work for others. You see, I have average sized hands and often shoot on a tripod, so the 400D size has never been an issue. However, not having experienced the Nikon range I am unable to comment on them.

Your best bet is to hit that website and read the reviews!

Also, for the record the canon range of lenses is larger. Go to the respective websites to compare. Not that it matters in any case because there are plenty of third party lenses that you can buy.

I wish you the best of luck.  Smile
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
JakTrax
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 44):
the best thing you can do is buy a camera like the 400D and then go with high quality optics

No, the best thing you can do (budget-permitting, of course) is buy a high-quality camera AND high quality optics.....  Wink

Hell, if you can afford a 5D with all the L series lenses under the sun why would you settle for a 400D? I see your point, though - a budget cam with decent glass is far better than something like a 30D or 5D with crappy plastic lenses.

Karl
 
TACAA320
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RE: New Camera [advice]. 10 Mega Pixels

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:17 am

I really want to thanks all of you. Every single recommendation is important to me, and I will decide and buy [at least the camera and an additional lens] this 26 of Jan when I am planning to go to Florida.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

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