Avsfan
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Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:36 am

To all screeners,

Others on A.net can hate me or appreciate what I am doing, but I am trying to find out what computer equipment and software the screeners here on A.net use to view and judge photos. I hope that your answers to the following questions will help give an insite as to what is used in the screening process. Here is what I would like to know:

  • What type of computer do you use (MAC, PC or Laptop)?
  • What type of monitor do you use (CRT or LCD)?
  • What is the size of your monitor?
  • Has your monitor been calibrated?
  • If the monitor is calibrated, what software has been used to calibrate the monitor?
  • What operating system do you use on your computer?
  • What is monitor screen resolution?
  • How is your screen set to deal with lower resolution photos (center them or stretch them)?
  • What software do you use to view & judge photos (Photoshop, PS Elements, GIMP, Corel Paint Shop Pro, Windows picture viewer)?
  • What is your technique to view and judge photos?

Thank you for your time and hope to hear from as many screeners who wish to participate in this thread.

Louis
"Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth...Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
 
JeffM
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:48 am

You're getting a little carried away now Louis......
They are just pictures.....take them, upload them, enjoy them...
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Avsfan (Thread starter):
What type of computer do you use (MAC, PC or Laptop)?

What type of monitor do you use (CRT or LCD)?

What is the size of your monitor?



Quoting Avsfan (Thread starter):
What operating system do you use on your computer?

http://emuconnie.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pages/pictures/Nintendo_Game_Boy_Advance_System.jpg
 
aussie18
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:11 am

I dont think you will get to many replies from a.net screeners....
 
EWS
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Aussie18 (Reply 3):
I dont think you will get to many replies from a.net screeners....

Nope.. they wouldnt tell you anyway, it would be classed as NOA_Info

Lew
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:31 am

Your questions don't make a lot of sense. We would never "stretch" a small picture, each photo being screened is opened in a browser window, at the original upload size. There is no software, other than your web browser, to screen photos. If we had to open each photo in a seperate program it would take forever and be a royal pain in the ass  Wink

I personally run my 19" CRT at 1280 x 1024, and an attached LCD at 1024 x 768 (running a dual monitor set-up), Windows XP Pro, on a blah blah blah P4 running at something like 3.4mhz.

For editing I use Photoshop CS2 or Photoshop 7, depending on the rig I am on. I calibrate with a Monaco Optix Pro on my CRT, the LCD has not been calibrated with a hardware solution. I also don't use the LCD for screening, but having spent quite a bit of time recently looking at rejected photos on a LCD I can see where people get confused and/or pissed off.

I have seen "sharp" pictures on a LCD appear soft on a CRT, and a properly sharpened photo on a CRT almost looks oversharp on a LCD.
 
D L X
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
I have seen "sharp" pictures on a LCD appear soft on a CRT, and a properly sharpened photo on a CRT almost looks oversharp on a LCD.

I was really wondering about this exact point. I only have LCDs, but I noticed this as well when I viewed my pics on someone else's CRT. I've started slightly oversharpening photos to compensate so they appear right on a CRT. But, now the question is, do all screeners screen on CRTs, or do some on LCDs? What's oversharp to one may possibly be soft to another.
 
bubbles
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
a properly sharpened photo on a CRT almost looks oversharp on a LCD.

Agree with Royal. I also have the same finding. I compared the identical photos on a 19" CRT and on a 19" LCD many times, and found this phenomena.  Smile

_Hongyin_
 
Avsfan
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 2):

Oh...wise guy eh! That was very funny, however you have now let the cat out of the bag on my post-processing equipment! hissyfit 

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
I have seen "sharp" pictures on a LCD appear soft on a CRT, and a properly sharpened photo on a CRT almost looks oversharp on a LCD.

Thank you for this input. This helps to answer some questions that I and possibly others have had.

Quoting D L X (Reply 6):
But, now the question is, do all screeners screen on CRTs, or do some on LCDs?

Very good question indeed.
"Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth...Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
 
skidmarks
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:23 pm

This is quite a good question in respect of the screens. If A.net was a commercial setup and operated out of a nice office block at a major airport somewhere, I think our beloved screeners would all be using the same equipment with identical screens and set up.

As it is, they are scattered to the four corners (never understood that - how do you get corners on a globe? Ah well.....) and use a variety of different screen types and systems. This makes for a challenging environment which adds to the spice and excitement of uploading here.

And frankly, I don't WANT to know what our screeners use. As long as they do the job efficiently and consistantly then that's fine by me. Big grin

Andy  old 
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LIPH
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 9):
And frankly, I don't WANT to know what our screeners use. As long as they do the job efficiently and consistantly then that's fine by me.

I want to know which equipment screeners use, because if using a certain equipment could have a positive fall back on my acceptance ratio, well, that's good.
In this sense I have always used LCD monitors and have no chance to have a CRT one, but this cannot mean I have less chance of having one of my shots accepted...I think it's a serious problem though, for many of us...

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
OD720
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:44 pm

This is very interesting. Since I use an LCD, I can stop complaining and moaning about my rejections.  Smile

All this time it was the monitor's fault and not mine!  Big grin
 
jajo
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:57 pm

I got a Apple Cinema HD 20" LCD-screen for christmas. Really neat screen. Comparing with my Dell 19" LCD it is amazing, much clearer, sharpening looks like on my reference monitor (fairly new 20" Sony Trinitron CRT). Actually, looking through rejections, with the Apple screen it is much easier to understand why they got rejected! It will replace my CRT as primary editing monitor.

Actually, I had a look at pictures in my queue yesterday as they were getting screened. I saw a picture which I immediately thought "it is a soft picture" with the Apple. I kept it in queue just to see if I was right and this morning it was rejected.

(I am not an Apple fanboy, I am a PC user, but their LCDs rock!)

/ jajo
 
eadster
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 5):
I also don't use the LCD for screening, but having spent quite a bit of time recently looking at rejected photos on a LCD I can see where people get confused and/or pissed off.

Yeah thats what I was talking about in a previous thread. If you guys screen on CRTs and see that some shots look better on LCD's (which majority of the world would now be using), and can see why we sometimes get angry, what do we do about it? Sharpen shots according to CRT or LCD monitors?

Quoting LIPH (Reply 10):
In this sense I have always used LCD monitors and have no chance to have a CRT one, but this cannot mean I have less chance of having one of my shots accepted...I think it's a serious problem though, for many of us...

It is a problem, and I'd really like to know how we go about fixing this. This is one major thing that needs to be consistent across the board and its not a photographer's nor a screener's fault. So what do we do? Is it time that screeners moved to LCD's? I mean lets be honest, how many systems do you see for sale now with CRT monitors? The quality of LCD's on the market now surely isn't that bad, that we have to all have to remain on CRT's just to get shots accepted...

I don't know, but the softness issue is a problem, and was mentioned as being so by a screener not too long ago.

Edit: Just happened now. A shot gone for soft. Looks fine on an LCD monitor.

[Edited 2007-01-04 12:06:20]

[Edited 2007-01-04 12:06:40]
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting Eadster (Reply 13):
So what do we do?

Johan pays every screener a new LCD display!

...and also every uploader who doesn't yet have one!  Smile

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
LIPH
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 14):
Johan pays every screener a new LCD display!

...and also every uploader who doesn't yet have one!

Good call Thierry !!  Wink

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
aussie18
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:27 pm

Wouldnt it be a requirement for every new screener now to have a LCD monitor?
 
LIPH
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting Aussie18 (Reply 16):
Wouldnt it be a requirement for every new screener now to have a LCD monitor?

Never heard that, but if you look who works in the graphic field usually works with CRT monitors...Don't know why, but that's the way it is...  Sad
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
eadster
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting LIPH (Reply 17):
Never heard that, but if you look who works in the graphic field usually works with CRT monitors...Don't know why, but that's the way it is...

Thats all well and good. What I'm saying is that most consumers are now using LCD's. Why not screen on what majority are going to be using to view? I really do think that alot of images are being shot down without looking at them on both type of screens...
 
LIPH
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting Eadster (Reply 18):
Why not screen on what majority are going to be using to view?

I agree...  no 

Quoting Eadster (Reply 18):
I really do think that alot of images are being shot down without looking at them on both type of screens...

It's true, probably many of mine !  Wink
After all there's no specific rule on A.net that says that all pics must be post processed on a CRT monitor...Now we're talking about sfotness, but noone says that also other factors may vary using different type of monitors...If the results are different then I think A.net should grant a fair screening on both monitors, and if on one monitor the image looks good then let it pass (because the rejection reason is most probably linked to a hardware issue...).

Regards
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
IL76
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:15 pm

I screen LCD... Not a big one, but a good one. So far I've had no complaints from the team about my screening, and rejection reasons of appeals of shots that I rejected are almost always confirmed by the headscreeners. Neither have I got many problems with my editing.
I'm currently in the office with an utterly crap LCD btw (DELL). A friend of mine had a DELL too which looked just as awful. There are major differences between different LCD's. So scan the market before you buy one (bring some photos on a USB-stick and check them out on different monitors for example).

Ed
 
jajo
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting IL76 (Reply 20):
There are major differences between different LCD's. So scan the market before you buy one (bring some photos on a USB-stick and check them out on different monitors for example).

 checkmark 

Very good advice! Also, make sure the monitors in the store are set to default settings. Lots of stores change settings to make the montors look more impressive. Don't think that should be a problem with DVI-connection though.

/ jajo
 
Avsfan
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:19 am

Contrary to what some people here might think, but this has turned out to be a good discussion. Here are my views after reading the posts.

Quoting Jajo (Reply 21):
make sure the monitors in the store are set to default settings.

That might help in purchasing a good monitor, but you have to remember that not everyone who either screens photos here for acceptance/rejection to the DB or provides advice prior to an individual submitting photos has the same monitors which is set to the exact same parameters.

I can edit a photo on my 19" LCD and then take it to my older laptop with a 14" screen for comparison and will see things a little different. This is even with both monitors calibrated with the same software and colorimeter device. A person has to also take into consideration that on a laptop, different angles of the monitor will show different results.

Even take this to the software that individuals use for post-processing. Unless everyone used the exact same software with the exact same settings, then everything would be fine. However, and correct me if I am wrong (which according to some here I am), not all of the various post-processing software programs available will process the same. Adobe's Photoshop and Elements might be very similar, but Corel's Paint Shop Pro or GIMP could possibly be different to Adobe's software or each other. Point in case could be the sharpening process.

Now how about the camera that everyone uses and it's settings? Not everone shoots with the same camera or with the same settings.

My  twocents  worth. Have fun.
"Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth...Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
 
jajo
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting Avsfan (Reply 22):
That might help in purchasing a good monitor, but you have to remember that not everyone who either screens photos here for acceptance/rejection to the DB or provides advice prior to an individual submitting photos has the same monitors which is set to the exact same parameters.

Of course not, but comparing screens with the default settings is probably what people will have time to do. The best thing would of course be to calibrate every monitor in the store first and then compare but I don't think many of us could do that.

The important thing while shopping for a monitor is to bring a USB-stick with some pictures you know is good, and then compare in the store and be sure that all monitors are connected with DVI and settings reset to factory, just for a fair comparison.

No wonder my Apple Cinema HD always looked this good in every store I've seen it - no settings except for brightness and no other way of connecting it but DVI.

/ jajo

[Edited 2007-01-04 18:43:40]
 
Avsfan
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting Jajo (Reply 23):

One other thing about this is the fact that when multiple monitors are connected to one computer, the quality of the video for each monitor will go down. It would be best if each monitor was calibrated the same to the default settings, but each on its own computer.
"Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth...Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
 
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Parsival
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:28 am

First - thank you Louis for starting this thread!

As for the soft/sharp issue it seems that you will have more chances to get a photo accepted if you post process your pictures with a low resolution monitor. But hey - today most of the monitors have a resolution 1280x1024 and higher! Mine is also a 1280er and most of my rejections are soft rejections! When I see my pictures on a 1024er then I understand why...
I have also a laptop with 1400er resolution display where almost every picture looks sharp.
But if a.net will keep being up-to-date in general then this means also that pictures should be screened with up-to-date resolutions in particular.

I'm not going to buy a 1024er crt at ebay to give my photos a higher chance...

Bjoern
sorry for my broken english...
 
picturethis
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:31 am

I've viewed some of my photos on CRTs before and they do look softer. I'd find it harder to edit on a CRT myself. Had an LCD for a while though, there excellent!
Make sure they know we're playing the game, but we don't need to play the game because we've already won the game.
 
D L X
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting Parsival (Reply 25):
As for the soft/sharp issue it seems that you will have more chances to get a photo accepted if you post process your pictures with a low resolution monitor.

This shouldn't be a surprise. The whole reason we want more resolution in our displays is to hide the effects of edges. HDTV is 1920x1080 resolution for a reason - sharp looking edges; you can't see the jaggies, but they're there. You can't see the softness, but it's there. That same picture on standard definition (640x480) looks like junk every time compared to HDTV. Same with monitors.
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:38 am

Good explanation about higher resolution. I am on 1680X1050 LCD display for editing, and I am starting to think that might cause some problems (by hiding flaws, and the sharpness/softness issues). One thing I like about high resolution though is looking at the whole picture versus a portions of it on a lower resolution monitor and using the scroll bar to move around. I guess it is give and take.
-Matt
 
aussie18
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:58 am

But we dont know whats going on behind scenes with the screeners,Probably got their own test shots which they check between both CRT and LCD to help them be and stay consistent.

If your getting shots accepted on regular basis and odd rejections which one or two which might be soft or oversharpen than its not really going to bother you what monitor they screen with as it seems to be working well on your monitor so just look back at rejected shot and see if you can see the why they rejected and re work it.

On monitors though it wouldnt just be Sharpness or Softness but also the brightness and light,I had 5 rejected in same batch for overexposed,one i looked back on would agree with,4 i appealed and 3 were accepted with one getting different rejection to my appeal,so brightness or darkness of screeners monitors compared to others will effect in getting exposure rejections.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Questions For A.net Screeners

Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Avsfan (Reply 24):
One other thing about this is the fact that when multiple monitors are connected to one computer, the quality of the video for each monitor will go down. It would be best if each monitor was calibrated the same to the default settings, but each on its own computer.

This is bogus. Don't know where you heard this, but it's not true. I've worked on many multiple monitor setups with nary a problem. Each monitor can have its own profile as well in Windows/OS X.

* * *

The reason that CRTs look "softer" is because the pixels cannot be truly 100% placed like they can on an LCD. There will be just a slight bit of extra softness in a tube display, whether it's a shadowmask or an aperture grille. There's also distortion and convergence to worry about, which is nonexistent on LCD displays. Convergence is the big sharpness killer; if you're not on precisely (and you can't hit it across the whole tube) color and sharpness will be degraded significantly. Being at the "sweet spot" for resolution and refresh rate on a tube is key. 85hz @ 1280x1024 on my ElectronBlue IV is its particular sweet spot.

Quoting LIPH (Reply 17):
Never heard that, but if you look who works in the graphic field usually works with CRT monitors...Don't know why, but that's the way it is...  

It's still a holdover from the days of weak LCDs with inconsistent viewing angles/poor color gamut. You'll pry my electronblue IV out of my cold, dead hands - or after it breaks my back. Big grin When LCD monitors were new, they had a more limited color gamut than tube displays, but they've largely caught up these days. Viewing angles are also much better, et cetera.

Fine detail will be more eminent in an LCD - that's pretty much a given. It shouldn't be enough to get someone rejected for a soft/oversharp, though. "Oversharp" is a misnomer anyway; it ought to be "too much USM/edge haloing." You can never have too much microcontrast. A soft image is soft on any good monitor.
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