psa188
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:02 pm

UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:38 am

This showed up on the Stockphoto list yesterday:

The UK Govt are about to propose restrictions on
photography in public places which could make
street photography and documentary photography
against the law. There's a petition on the Downing
St website against the Government's proposals to
restrict the use of photography in public areas.

Sign up to the petition now......

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Photography/

Please note: Only UK citizens can sign the petition.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:52 am

More details from petition creator

There are a number of moves promoting the requirement of 'ID' cards to allow photographers to operate in a public place.

So, you need ID. What's the big deal? If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.
 
donder10
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

Why?
 
psa188
Posts: 591
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:53 am

But quote the rest of the petition: "It is a fundamental right of a UK citizen to use a camera in a public place, indeed there is no right to privacy when in a public place. These moves have developed from paranoia and only promote suspicion towards genuine people following their hobby or profession."

This photo nazi behavior has been a problem here in the United States also, esp in the eastern part of the country. For example, tha ACLU is fighting the Port Authority's photo ban on the PATH system:
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/NY1ToGo/Story/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=66991

I support anyone trying to fight photo paranoia, but since I'm not a British subject I don't think I should sign this one.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
So, you need ID. What's the big deal?

The big deal is quite how the government plan to define 'photography'. Is this going to be just those people who go out with the intention of making money from their photographs; i.e. the photographer, or it is going to be restricted to those people who have a 'professional' looking camera, such as many thousands of people own to pursue their hobbies? If it is not restricted to a certain group, then the bill would presumably apply to everybody, so that's as wide ranging as from those people who shoot with a Canon 1D to a basic camera phone. They need to clearly identify the situation and circumstance in which this 'ban' would be applicable; how would they aim to identify a tourist from taking a picture of the House of Commons from a terrorist taking the same picture.

As far as I can see, such a ban would be virtually impossible to enforce, and the application of it would be so complicated that nobody would have a clue what it means or what it's really good for, perhaps it's a response to the infringement of privacy on our Royal family and other public figures, but if so then it's hardly the best or most responsible way to go about it. Plus I'd rather have my Police force chasing after murderers and rapists than going around confiscating cameras and locking photographers up; this is yet another stupid piece of proposed legislation that I hope never comes to fruition.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

You are obviously used to a very much different situation than we currently have in the UK. If you are taking photos (say of an aircraft landing for arguments sake) when stood on public land then you have every right to do so. A simple explanation to a police officer for him to ascertain that you are not concealing ulterior motives, such as shooting at the plane, should be all you need to do. I'm sure the force would be delighted should they be the ones to enforce any such ban anyway, their time is stretched enough as it it.


Dan 

[Edited 2007-02-22 21:13:35]
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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scbriml
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

 Wow!

Maybe in gulag USA, but not here. There is zero requirement for me to carry id in public places.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
JRadier
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

I hope you have your flamesuit ready as a lot of people will disagree, me including. You tell me why I should be detained for doing something that is actually LEGAL (both here and in the US)!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:56 am

dude, flame away.

Who leaves the house without ID?

Did you drive to the airport? Bring your drivers licence...

On vacation? Bring your passport.

Are you telling me you have a problem with, in the current world climate, of showing your ID to a proper official if asked? What do you tell them? "Piss off I am on public property!"

The way I read the bill is they want to make a law that would give police (or any other 'proper' agency) the right to check ID?

It is a lot better than being face down on the pavement with guns in your back. I know, trust me.
 
avroarrow
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:03 am

Hey Royal, I think maybe people were interpreting your remarks as you supporting a notion of needing an official government issued "photography permit" or something similar in order to take photos at all. Thats how it struck me at first anyway. (Although that was not your intent.) As far as getting my licence checked by a cop vs getting arrested, well thats certainly a no brainer.  Smile
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:12 am

No, that is not what I meant, and not how I read the info on the supplied link.

An "offical photography permit" sounds like some sort of money machine for the government, can't see how having a camera would make someone dangerous, and somehow make them "not dangerous" because they have a piece of paper in their pocket.
 
JRadier
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Who leaves the house without ID?

I don't, but if I'm doing nothing illegal here in the netherlands I don't HAVE to show my ID (I usually do tho)

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):

Are you telling me you have a problem with, in the current world climate, of showing your ID to a proper official if asked? What do you tell them? "Piss off I am on public property!"

If it's without reason, yes I do!

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):


So, you need ID. What's the big deal? If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

1 word, WHY do I deserve to be detained? We are no police state (but people like you seem to be heading that way) and I would like to keep it like that!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
747438
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
It is a lot better than being face down on the pavement with guns in your back. I know, trust me.

It seems to me that if you don't have an attitude, then you will be fine.
Now, why does it surprise me that Royal ends up with a gun in his back? Could it be down to the same arrogant attitide he displays here?
Or just bravado, making up for his lack of stature ?
 
QANTAS077
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
So, you need ID. What's the big deal? If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

big deal is the government wants to know every move you make when they have no right...if you're in the proximity of an airport then why does one need a government ID? remember who the government is employed by and who they represent.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Who leaves the house without ID?

me...it's my business whether or not i have my ID, i don't go out with the plan in my head of doing something illegal so why would i need ID?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
On vacation? Bring your passport.

and that's as far as it goes...rest of the time my passport stays locked in the hotel safe, i'd like to be able to get out of the country when my vacation is over...not have to visit my local embassy because it's been lost or stolen.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
of showing your ID to a proper official if asked?

if asked without proper reason i will not answer them...there is NO law in Australia that states i MUST carry ID on my person whenever i leave the house, we're not living in a police state just yet. Just because he is trying to justify his/her job it doesn't mean they have proper grounds to seek ID whenever they feel like it.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:35 am

747438 - I have no idea who you are, I see you don't have a real name attached to your profile, so I don't know if we have ever had the "pleasure" of meeting, but if you don't know me, and I am guessing you don't, you should keep your opinion of what type of person I may, or may not be, to yourself. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

If you would like to share your opinion of me on an offline email, feel free to do so by using the email link on my profile page.

Back to the topic at hand.

In the US you have two types of encounters with law enforcement while spotting...the routine "we were driving by and wanted to see what you were up to, and the much more common "we got a call from xxx saying there was a suspicious person with a camera."

If your encounter is of the second variety, you have no choice but to show them your ID. If you refuse, or don't have ID, they will detain you. At the very least you will be put out, and asked to leave. Worse case is they take you to the police station, impound your car, and hold you until they can process you. I have heard that can take several hours.

So, why would you want that hassle? If someone is doing their job, and you are legit, and they ask for your ID, why refuse? That's the part I don't get. All you are doing is making it that much harder for the next person who wants to take photos from that location.

For the record, I was thrown around because the locals had never seen a 500mm f/4 on a monopod before.
 
Cadet57
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Psa188 (Reply 3):
but since I'm not a British subject I don't think I should sign this one.



Quoting Psa188 (Thread starter):
Please note: Only UK citizens can sign the petition.

 Wink
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
lennymuir
Posts: 403
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:02 am

This is the first time I've heard this anti-photography bollox.

Which MP is proposing this bill?

I would have thought outlawing the use of guns in public places would be
more appropriate.

It wont happen.



Gerry
 
dc10tim
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
If your encounter is of the second variety, you have no choice but to show them your ID. If you refuse, or don't have ID, they will detain you. At the very least you will be put out, and asked to leave. Worse case is they take you to the police station, impound your car, and hold you until they can process you. I have heard that can take several hours.

It is not a legal requirement under English law (or the rest of the UK) to carry ID with you at all times. If you are stopped by a Police officer for whatever reason and they want to see ID and you don't have it, usually you will be asked to report to a local Police station with it within a given time. Only under exceptional circumstances will you be arrested (ie if they think you've committed a crime or are about to) and detained. Photographing aircraft doesn't warrant this unless they are being a set of a***holes in which case I would complain.

By and large there isn't a great deal the Police can do about you taking photos of an aircraft unless you are in violation of a particular airport's bye-law.

However, since 9/11 we've been getting some of the same crap that we hear from the US regarding "bullying" of people taking photos. It wouldn't at all surprise me with the current administration if they tried to restrict us in some way though, especially in light of recent terrorism raids etc. over here.

The petition doesn't give any details about what the actual proposals are. If it is a PMB (Private Member's Bill) drawn from the hat for some Blairite MP, then I wouldn't worry, it simply wont get time in Parliament. If it is a wider government initiative, although more worrying, still don't get your knickers in a twist as we'll have a change of PM , and hopefully most of government within the next 6 months.

Top and bottom - lets wait and see before getting irate.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
JakTrax
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:14 am

Another example of our so-called government harassing the law-abiding public. It's all very well for non-UK citizens to give their opinions but you really have to live here to see what a crack-pot bunch of loonies we have in charge! The government is about to spend millions of pounds (taxpayers' pounds, actually) on a new army of spies to snoop on those who commit such hideous crimes as light up a cigarette after the ban in July and put their rubbish out in the wrong box on the wrong day. Meanwhile gun crime is soaring out of control (crime in general is now the highest in Europe) and normal folk are not allowed to defend their homes and property in case we injure a poor criminal. We're supposed to ask questions first, like, "Are you going to kill me and my family?" before we can give an intruder what for, and even then it's likely we'll end up in court.

I no longer consider Britain a democracy, and very soon it will be a regime - one not too dissimilar to the one we've just removed from a certain Arab country! This 'no photography' crap is just another example of how Britain's 'police state' can simply make up or change laws at the drop of the hat, without even legally passing them through the approval process. If a policeman - sorry, politically incorrect, a police-PERSON - deems something illegal here, then it becomes illegal, whether it actually is or not. I have recently had problems with our PC-driven police, who've decided that my car is illegally parked when in fact according to the law it is not. When confromted with this, their response was, "Well if we say it's illegal, it's illegal". Nice!

Long live Britain!

Karl
 
JakTrax
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:21 am

On another note, if the authorities don't like me where I am around the perimeter then they should extend the fence out further. The fence stops me from going where they don't want me to be, so providing I'm on the RIGHT side of the fence they really have no right to harass me. What next? A perimeter fence FOR the perimeter fence?!

I object to constantly having to show my ID if I'm doing nothing wrong. It's a bit like having your integrity questioned. Are there as many checks made of police recruits as there are of the geneal public? Probably not. I once was harassed at EMA for photographing a plane from the departure lounge window. The officer said he wouldn't have minded if it was just a 'holiday snap' of the wife and kids in front of the plane. How ridiculous! That's a very fine line, don't you think? One that, legally, must be almost impossible to enforce.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
So, why would you want that hassle? If someone is doing their job, and you are legit, and they ask for your ID, why refuse? That's the part I don't get.

Although I have an issue with the principle, I would present my ID for the sake of not arising unnecessary suspicion and not to waist either my time or that of an officer's. The issue, and what I have principle with, is that according to the gist of this potential bill I could suddenly be breaking the law by taking a photograph, the only way around which would to be to apply and most likely BUY a photographer's card.

Let me guess, That'll be about £10 per card, possibly £15 so, I'd say there are certainly more than a million amateur photographers in the UK and, guess what, the government suddenly gets itself another £10 million pounds or so to play with.  Yeah sure Now, I may be sounding rather sceptical here, but this legislation was first recommended by a Select Committee of MPs with the backing of a report commissioned from the House of Commons in mid 2003, I know they've had a war to mastermind, but has it really taken them nearly 4 years to act on the Committee's recommendations. Even then, it was aimed more at the privacy issues surrounding tabloid newspapers and the glossy magazines full of paparazzi-esqu pictures of celebrities, where-as this carnation of the proposals appears to be far more wide-ranging; probably in an attempt to cover a number of issues (privacy, threat of terrorism, activities of paedophiles etc...) in one go. Now the government have brought the issue up again, they need to quickly and thoroughly define exactly what these proposals are going to entail.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
CalgaryBill
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
So, you need ID. What's the big deal? If you are at an airport, taking pictures, and you don't have government issue ID on you, you deserve to be detained.

Hey Royal, I usually agree with you but not on this one. This might be cut and dried in the US or the UK, but what about in Nigeria? How about a Nigerian visiting the UK? A typical street cop wouldn't even know what a Nigerian passport looked like, much less a foreign drivers license. In some countries, hotels impound passports until you check out, does that mean foreigners shouldn't be allowed to take pictures? Where I live, parking is terrible so I often take a train where ever I'm going so no, I do not carry my wallet with me.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Are you telling me you have a problem with, in the current world climate, of showing your ID to a proper official if asked? What do you tell them? "Piss off I am on public property!"

I totally agree that confrontational remarks only make things worse. But the bigger question is, why would we want to live in a world where we can be ID'd just for standing in the street? What's next, having to get permits in advance to shoot something, or to take your camera outside? I do not want to live in a world where police can challenge me just for... being me or being where I am.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
Worse case is they take you to the police station, impound your car, and hold you until they can process you. I have heard that can take several hours.

And it's illegal. Both the US and the Commonwealth Countries espouse the concept of "probable cause." Nowhere have I seen evidence that standing near an airport with a camera, on public property, predisposes a person to committing a crime. If that's the case, then certainly there's probable cause to arrest everyone who shows up at an airport security gate having forgotten to take their pocket knife out of their backpack?

The reciprocal of the scenario in the UK is the proliferation of Airport Watch programs. Instead of challenging photographers and fostering a "them and us" atmosphere, the AW programs have brought airport security and photographers together in mutual support and respect. Yes, I have to produce my AW ID card, but the airport invested a lot of time and effort in making themselves more accessible and transparent to me, so I'm happy to reciprocate. What goes around, comes around.

The "current world climate" is our reaction to events and, IMHO, we've gone too far.

B
 
paulinbna
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:22 pm

My family came from England to the states in the early 80's and my mom and dad had to make them selves carry their ID every where with them. As far as I know you still are not required to carry your id with you in the UK.
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
dazbo5
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:34 pm

I signed the petition the other week. If I want to go out and use my camera in a public place, then I don't think anyone should be able to stop me. I do agree with certain parts of it for such things as people taking photo's of children for their own pleasure etc without parents permission, I've nothing against that part whatsoever. But usual thing, the minority spoilt if for the majority. My guess would be regardless of the number of people who sign this peition, it'll just get disregarded by downing street just like the road pricing one did, and that was signed by nearly 2 million people.

I know there has been a bit of debte on here about taking ID with you, but there is nothing in the uk that requires you to carry ID and as far as I'm concerned, it should stay tht way. If you're doing nothing wrong, why do you have to prove your inocense? I've been stopped and search while at Manchester for taking photo's which was a first for me. The police were very polite and asked what I was doing etc, no problems. If you are doing nothing wrong, why do you need to justify your actions by carrying a photographers card? No doubt this will be at the expense of the photographer so its just another one of Blair's stealth taxes. We can't do anything in this country anymore without permission or a charge.

Just my thoughts,

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
brianw999
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:52 pm

I've been considering printing up a T shirt with the following on the back. If nothing else it should be good for a laugh.

"Dear Member of The Public. I am not a terrorist and this is a camera and not a missile launcher that I am holding. I am a highly respected member of the emergency services myself and will gladly show you my ID. I am on public property and am not breaking any laws. If I do see anyone acting strangely, rest assured I will call the police myself."

Some might say that that's an awful lot to fit on a T shirt....but then, there is an awful lot of me !!
 
oly720man
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 pm

https://www2.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6858851185609516168&postID=5707553099080280122

Quoting.......

(Short summary for anyone who can't be bothered to research themselves before they sign a petition: The petitioner heard of a friend of a friend who got hassled by the police for taking photographs of children in a park. The friend of a friend's camera club suggested maybe photographers should carry some sort of ID to reassure the police they weren't perves. The petitioner added 2+2 to make 537 and started this ridiculous exercise, which does nothing but demonstrate to the government that online petitions are a waste of time.)


Really, anyone taking photos of kids is asking for trouble, if this is the case. Who knows...
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
McG1967
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:07 pm

If that last post is correct, then the petition itself is bull - also if any such proposals had been made, you can bet your bottom dollar that the print press in the UK would have been all over it, as this restricts their ability to cover news events.
There were proposals a few years back to restrict the work of papparazzi photographers by the introduction of a privacy bill, but I belive this got canned.

If ID Cards get introduced in the UK, then you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be compulsory to carry them.
 
JakTrax
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:23 pm

This country is slowly becoming like Iran! My question to the anti-terror lobby is when the hell has a camera ever brought down a plane? The government needs to invest money into other areas of countering terrorism, others which will harass the public less and won't alienate them from our authorities and so-called civil servants. If the government wants the people on its side in this war on terror then it needs to stop hassling them and use a bit of common sense. The way the state's going it is filling the people full of distrust - and where there's distrust there's a will to not co-operate.

On a final note, I thought governments were elected to serve the people, not control them!

Karl
 
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scbriml
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Who leaves the house without ID?

Me, every day when at home. No UK requirement for me to carry any form of id. It's what we call living in a free country. wink 

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Did you drive to the airport? Bring your drivers licence...

Again, no UK requirement that I have to carry my driving licence while driving. Yes, if Mr Plod stopped me, then having my licence on me would make things easier, but there is no legal requirement for me to carry it. If I've committed a traffic violation, I have three days to produce my licence at any police station. I never have it with me driving in the UK. Obviously if I'm abroad and I need it to hire a car, yes I would have it.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
On vacation? Bring your passport.

If I need to leave This Sceptered Isle, then yes, I need my passport. But while abroad, it's locked in the hotel room safe.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Are you telling me you have a problem with, in the current world climate, of showing your ID to a proper official if asked? What do you tell them? "Piss off I am on public property!"

No, that would be somewhat rude. If a policeman needs to ask me what I'm doing at the airport with two SLRs with big lenses, then I'll explain. I simply do not have to carry any ID to go about my normal day-to-day business.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:42 am

Weird.

I just carry my ID in my wallet, along with my Press ID. When asked I present it. Never given a thought to leaving it at home (seems stupid to me) and wouldn't want the hassle of having to answer more questions or find time to go to a police station within three days, when all I need to do is reach into my pocket.

But I have the sense this thread is less about showing ID and more about which country is "free" and which ones aren't.

Just out of curiosity, how do you carry your money and credit cards? Do you get asked for ID when you paying for something with your debit card?
 
9V
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:46 am

The good old US of A, land of the free......................................NOT!

 Wink
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:49 am

what's up with all the Brits dogging the US for being free?

A quick glance at my history books shows me england might be West Germany if it wasn't for the United States, but that is off topic, isn't it.

And before you tell me about the things like the Quasi-War, well, save your breath...
 
9V
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:01 am

Just messin with ya Clickhappy, don't get your panties in a twist. Big grin
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:03 am

I'm rollin' commando Ian  Wink
 
dc10tim
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
A quick glance at my history books shows me england might be West Germany if it wasn't for the United States, but that is off topic, isn't it.

LOL. A quick look at mine says you stepped in half-way through and it wasn't to save our backsides, but you're quite right that is another topic.

I don't agree with some of what has been written but I don't think anyone is particularly America-bashing. Since this is aviation photography forum however, understand that people will be a little concerned if the hobby is to become more restricted for no apparent reason, and the UK lead down the path of the US in the attitudes of law enforcement towards us.

I think a bigger threat to the hobby in the UK though lies in airport expansion and unsympathetic airport authorities gradually eating away at the places where enthusiasts go.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
David L
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
In the US you have two types of encounters with law enforcement while spotting

I guess you didn't notice which country the story refers to.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 28):
But I have the sense this thread is less about showing ID and more about which country is "free" and which ones aren't.

No, it's about the fact that you made some remarks that don't apply in this case. Drop the "US-bashing" card.  Smile

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 28):
Just out of curiosity, how do you carry your money and credit cards? Do you get asked for ID when you paying for something with your debit card?

Chip and PIN. In the US, nobody's ever asked me for ID or checked that my signature matched when I've used my credit card.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 24):
The petitioner heard of a friend of a friend who got hassled by the police for taking photographs of children in a park. The friend of a friend's camera club suggested maybe photographers should carry some sort of ID to reassure the police they weren't perves. The petitioner added 2+2 to make 537 and started this ridiculous exercise, which does nothing but demonstrate to the government that online petitions are a waste of time

And now we have the real story! Thanks.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:33 am

This is such a fun place sometimes  Smile

I would love to meet some of you in person. That would be a riot Big grin
 
Danny
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:56 am

Are they going to detain all tourists taking pictures in front of Buckingham Palace? Surely they will not have UK photographer ID cards.  banghead 
 
9V
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
I would love to meet some of you in person

Not if you are rollin' commando.  vomit 
 
mirage
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
what's up with all the Brits dogging the US for being free?

We (europeans) have a great gratefulness for you americans for having crossed the Atlantic to help us 50 years ago, at least I have that gratefulness and big respect specially since the day I visited the american cemetery at Normandy, just close to Omaha Beach. But the main question is not this, I quoted that small sentence just to say that you're not so free as you think you are, if compared with other countries, for example in Europe. In fact I note in this side of the Atlantic we, citizens, are not so carefully controlled as you in USA, except the UK. That idea of "USA the land of freedom" is becoming a mith, a stereotype from many many years ago.

Luis
 
CalgaryBill
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 28):
Just out of curiosity, how do you carry your money and credit cards? Do you get asked for ID when you paying for something with your debit card?

No, not in Canada anyway. I even wrote "Check ID" beside my signature on my credit card and, in two years, only one person has asked to see it. It has saved me a fortune on tipping! In Canada you are required to show a license when driving, so if I take the car I have my wallet. But if I'm on my bicycle or the train, I only carry cash and/or a debit card in my front pocket so I'm going to know it if someone tries to lift my cash!

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 32):
I'm rollin' commando Ian Wink

And you're really going to feel it if someone tries to rip you off!!!

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
I would love to meet some of you in person. That would be a riot Big grin

Haven't you heard the saying "careful what you wish for, you might get it?"  Wow!

B
 
JRadier
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Mirage (Reply 38):
That idea of "USA the land of freedom" is becoming a mith, a stereotype from many many years ago.

Can't do anything but agree!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
Daleaholic
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:40 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Who leaves the house without ID?

Did you drive to the airport? Bring your drivers licence...

I leave the house without ID... I wouldn't carry my drivers licence with me if I was driving. In the UK you are not required to show your documents immediately, something like 48 hours or so. It's too much of a risk to carry with you.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 24):
anyone taking photos of kids is asking for trouble

Indeed, Seems rather silly of the person.

My take on this...
I'll take photos when, where and of what (within reason) I like!!! If somebody has a problem and makes a point of it to me then I'll do as asked, provided they are polite... otherwise... I'll do what I want!
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
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scbriml
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:01 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 28):
Do you get asked for ID when you paying for something with your debit card?

No. Even before chip & pin. I lie - just once. Disney store in Galeria Houston when I tried to buy two $15 t-shirts. They lost my custom (passport in safe in hotel room, drivers licence in car, parked at other end of mall).

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
A quick glance at my history books shows me england might be West Germany if it wasn't for the United States

You may need to get a new history book - in what year does your say WWII started? Little old England had successfully repelled Germany before your boys brought over much needed supplies of silk stockings and chewing gum. wink 

Royal, we're just joshing with you. But, the fact is in the UK there is absolutely no requirement to carry id on a day-to-day basis. Even with talk of a national identity card (which has been going on for at least the last 10 years) it has always been emphasised that it would not be compulsory to carry it. Now, the main reason for saying that is that no political party that issued a manifesto which stated that they would introduce compulsory id cards would get elected.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
ryangooner
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 17):
I no longer consider Britain a democracy, and very soon it will be a regime - one not too dissimilar to the one we've just removed from a certain Arab country! This 'no photography' crap is just another example of how Britain's 'police state' can simply make up or change laws at the drop of the hat, without even legally passing them through the approval process. If a policeman - sorry, politically incorrect, a police-PERSON - deems something illegal here, then it becomes illegal, whether it actually is or not. I have recently had problems with our PC-driven police, who've decided that my car is illegally parked when in fact according to the law it is not. When confromted with this, their response was, "Well if we say it's illegal, it's illegal". Nice!

Your are talking absolute rubbish - A police OFFICER would be more politically correct, i sometimes wish i could make up or change laws at a drop of a hat, would make my life much easier.

As for ID requirements, there are none in the UK, apart from driving documents which you are always given a 7 day window to produce them.

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
ryangooner
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:40 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 18):
Are there as many checks made of police recruits as there are of the geneal public? Probably not.

You keep asking the questions! the answer to this one is there are more checks than you can probably imagine.
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
ryangooner
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:47 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 27):
Again, no UK requirement that I have to carry my driving licence while driving. Yes, if Mr Plod stopped me, then having my licence on me would make things easier, but there is no legal requirement for me to carry it. If I've committed a traffic violation, I have three days to produce my licence at any police station. I never have it with me driving in the UK. Obviously if I'm abroad and I need it to hire a car, yes I would have it.

incorrect - It is an offence not to have your driving documents with you at all times whilst driving and any Plod can stop you just to check these documents.

However, common sense prevails - It is common for drivers not to have such documents in their vehicle for the very reason that if its stolen then mr thief will have a fine day with your docs, so thats why your given 7 days to produce your required docs.
hope this explains and clarifies

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
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scbriml
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 45):
incorrect - It is an offence not to have your driving documents with you at all times whilst driving and any Plod can stop you just to check these documents.

However, common sense prevails - It is common for drivers not to have such documents in their vehicle for the very reason that if its stolen then mr thief will have a fine day with your docs, so thats why your given 7 days to produce your required docs.

OK, my bad. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe I'm so old that it was never a requirement when I passed my test (yes, we did have cars in those days!)  old 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
skidmarks
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 46):
OK, my bad. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe I'm so old that it was never a requirement when I passed my test (yes, we did have cars in those days!)

Don't get the young whippersnappers started!! Christ, it's bad enough being nearly out of the age bracket and into the next!

Regarding photography in general and aircraft photography in particular, I do believe that if you are not doing anything against the law and have the correct ID with you, then all of us should be quite safe from the evil Mr Plod! I know it's not compulsory to carry any form of identification with you in UK, other than driving docs when driving, but common sense tells me, in this day and age and political climate, some sort of ID is useful when you are pointing a damn great lens at aeroplanes. Lets face it, the subject is done to death just about every fortnight and if you haven't got the message by now then you really shouldn't be out without your mother.

No, it's not illegal to take pictures. Yes, it is common sense to be able to identify yourself to the filth. They have a difficult enough job as it is without some little oik/nerd/geek giving them a hard time.

As to the US, well, so far I've only ever once been asked who I was and what was I doing and that was at MIA in 1988, on the roof of the car park. I had my RAF ID with me and so was thanked and left alone.

Use a bit of common.

Andy  old 
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JakTrax
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 43):
Your are talking absolute rubbish

This isn't rubbish - it's plain to see that we are becoming a police state. How would you describe the actions of the officer giving me grief about my parking? Fair? Just? The fact it took three of them really annoyed me.....

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 47):
some sort of ID is useful when you are pointing a damn great lens at aeroplanes.

Why? It's not illegal. That's like saying some form if ID is useful when shopping. Shopping isn't illegal so why carry ID? At the end of the day, the perimeter fence stops me going where I shouldn't. Anywhere on the landside side of the fence should never be a problem. Try telling that to EMA.....

Karl
 
skidmarks
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RE: UK-photography Restricted?

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 48):
Why? It's not illegal. That's like saying some form if ID is useful when shopping. Shopping isn't illegal so why carry ID? At the end of the day, the perimeter fence stops me going where I shouldn't. Anywhere on the landside side of the fence should never be a problem. Try telling that to EMA.....

No, it's not illegal, but time and again we see whining and whingeing about being stopped and asked questions. All I'm saying is common sense tells you to take some damn ID with you. Getting high and mighty about your rights and freedom is a sure fired way to waste an afternoon being interogated by a bored policeman who got fed up with being told he was in the wrong for the umpteenth time.

Just take some form of ID with you when you go taking pictures. It doesn't hurt, it's not an infringement of your human rights, it's just common sense. It identifies you as an individual and not some scumbag up to no good. If you don't after all the tooing and froing on these and other forums then you are a fool. Rights are fine, stupidity is dumb. Sheesh, you are beginning to sound like bloody Greenpeace!

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional

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