monteycarlos
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Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:39 pm

Hi all,

These shots I took were all taken at dusk at Melbourne and I was considering uploading them. They are marginal shots at best, but I thought a fresh set of eyes might help. Honestly, to me they seem soft, and some of them have contrast issues but I thought I would check to see what everyone else thought...


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



This last one of the MH B744 I think also suffers from distance...

Thanks for the feedback... always appreciated.

Carl
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ThierryD
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:55 pm

I wouldn't call your photos marginal; they look pretty nice to me.
In detail:

- Singapore: the only one whose chances of making it in the db I doubt; it's backlit and might fall under a common/quality rejection as there are already around 50 pics of it in the db

- Emirates: superb background lighting; 2 main issues though: plane is dark and a little soft. With some shadow-highlight and USM you might be able to save it though

- VirginBlue: needs around 02°CW roation (I know it's peanuts but screeners have been pretty picky concerning levelling as of late) and some selective sharpening (nose and tail need some more but take care not to sharpen the area around the engine nacelles even more as there are already small jaggies)

- Malaysian: definitely not a distance problem as you include the whole wingspan and thus entirely fill the frame with the aircraft. The fuselage could use a little more sharpening though.

Good luck!

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
LIPH
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:05 pm

Montey,
all links to images are broken...

Ciao
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
aussie18
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:55 pm

Quoting LIPH (Reply 2):
Montey,
all links to images are broken...

Yeah the links are broken.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:21 pm

Don't think Carl can do much about it, seems myaviation.net is down!

FWIW, on first glance I thought the photos showed promis but will have to refrain from comment until I can examine them more closely.

Cheers
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LIPH
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:53 pm

Montey,

- First shot seems to suffer from a quality/soft issue
- The Emirates one looks very promising. Probably a bit more sharpening in some areas would do better along with some CCW rotation. But I think you can save this nice shot.
- Virgin one looks ok to me.
- Malasyan one needs a bit of CW rotation and an extra kick of USM.

As always, jus my  twocents 
Good luck !

Ciao
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monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:01 pm

Thanks for the comments thus far... Its a bit late at night here in MEL to start making any changes but I will do so tomorrow morning and try to repost them here for a look... Thanks for the advice thus far. I have a one more I wish to ask your advice on:


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



Crop, tug, person and background clutter make it awkward plus being colourblind I am not too sure about the colour cast. Hence the suggestion that a fresh pair of eyes might help. Thanks for your advice all!  Wink
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dc10tim
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:20 pm

Hi Carl,

The 727 shot looks good in the low sunlight, but I think the tug and ramp guy might mean a 'motive' rejection.

With respect to the other shots, I agree with Thierry, but I would just lower the Virgin 737 in the frame slightly as it looks a little high at the minute.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
LIPH
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 6):
Thanks for the comments thus far... Its a bit late at night here in MEL to start making any changes

Montey,
here in Venice is not so late to give some advice. Sun is shining outside on what seems to be...the first spring season afternoon !  Wink
Regarding the "3 holer" shot. Looks very nice but the truck is just in front of the nose. Hence : motive rejection....  Sad

Ciao
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monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 7):
The 727 shot looks good in the low sunlight, but I think the tug and ramp guy might mean a 'motive' rejection.



Quoting LIPH (Reply 8):
Regarding the "3 holer" shot. Looks very nice but the truck is just in front of the nose. Hence : motive rejection

Yeah, as I thought it was a pretty awkward type of shot and sadly the only one I could really capture before other objects got in the way. How is the colour cast though? Does it seem ok?

I've just got up so I will rework the shots and try to repost them here. Thanks for the helpful feedback!

Carl
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
- Emirates: superb background lighting; 2 main issues though: plane is dark and a little soft. With some shadow-highlight and USM you might be able to save it though

Hey Thierry, thanks for the advice. I have a few questions though. I am in the middle of trying to re-do all these shots and the techniques I am using don't seem to be working. Do you think with this EK A345 shot that I am best using the shadow-highlights tool or perhaps going with the curves tool and adjusting it that way?

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
- VirginBlue: needs around 02°CW roation (I know it's peanuts but screeners have been pretty picky concerning levelling as of late) and some selective sharpening (nose and tail need some more but take care not to sharpen the area around the engine nacelles even more as there are already small jaggies)

The rotation is fine... I'll have to start back with the original image so as not to crop out the person or the horizontal stabiliser. How is the best way to selective sharpen the nose and tail? I generally use the wand to do the aircraft as a whole but how is it possible to sharpen only those areas without making it too noticeable?

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 1):
- Malaysian: definitely not a distance problem as you include the whole wingspan and thus entirely fill the frame with the aircraft. The fuselage could use a little more sharpening though.

Cool... I guess if you can give me a way to do it with the DJ shot that it will work equally well on the MH fuselage.

Thanks a heap for the input!

Carl
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:16 pm

I have a couple more folks...

Could I possibly ear-mark any of these for future upload?


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Carl J Maroney



My initial thoughts are:

1. Soft (if not blurry) plus dark
2. Colour cast might be off (again my colour vision might be a problem) + Soft nose and tail?
3. Aircraft is dark, and possibly needs shadow/highlights to be salvaged. However it is also soft.
4. Seems ok to me but could maybe use another shot of USM and some shadow/highlights?
5. Perhaps the least likely of this batch. Clutter +crop are awkward, low light, soft and possibly dark?

Please let me know your thoughts all!

Regards,

Carl
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ThierryD
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 10):
Do you think with this EK A345 shot that I am best using the shadow-highlights tool or perhaps going with the curves tool and adjusting it that way?

Since you'd only wanna brighten up the aircraft and not the background the shadow/highlight tool would be the better option; take care though not to overuse it.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 10):
How is the best way to selective sharpen the nose and tail?

By using layer masks; you make a duplicate layer, sharpen the whole picture as required, then you put a hiding mask on it and with the brush tool you remove the mask (thus sharpening the underneath lying area) where required.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 10):
I guess if you can give me a way to do it with the DJ shot that it will work equally well on the MH fuselage.

 checkmark 


Your B727 photo is a real beauty but as the others have already said, the vehicle blocking the nose will give it a 100% motive rejection.  Sad

Thierry
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ThierryD
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 11):
Could I possibly ear-mark any of these for future upload?

2 Malaysian photos:
- blurry, lacking overall quality and dark; no way to save those for A.net
- Virgin: could use a little more sharpening and lighting; nose is somewhat blurry; with already 44 shots in the db I doubt its chances of acceptance
- Qantas: same story as with the Emirates picture
- Australian Air Express: a little dark and oversharpened (apparent jaggies); although no part of the plane is really blocked by anything it might fall under motive rejection as the picture is pretty cluttered on the right side. But if you don't care too much about acceptance ratio you could give it a try.

A little guide that might help you with your self-screening:
http://planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm

Cheers,

Thierry
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ptrjong
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 12):
Since you'd only wanna brighten up the aircraft and not the background the shadow/highlight tool would be the better option;

How would that only affect the aircraft, without deselecting the background? I don't see the difference with the curve.

Peter Smile
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LIPH
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 11):
Please let me know your thoughts all!

Montey,
- Malasyan looks oversaharpened and lacks in quality.
- Virgin looks a bit sfot and somewhat blurry
- Quantas is a very nice shot, but the a/c is in clear backlit and moreover it is blurry/soft
- The 727 one looks to me the more promising one, altough oversharpened....

Ciao
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monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 13):
- blurry, lacking overall quality and dark; no way to save those for A.net

As suspected... the light on this night was much lower due to higher cloud coverage and I really didn't hold any high hopes for these shots. I was kind of hoping by some miracle the one of 9M-MPO with the beacon lit might be ok but I concur in that it's probably not salvageable.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 13):
- Virgin: could use a little more sharpening and lighting; nose is somewhat blurry; with already 44 shots in the db I doubt its chances of acceptance

Not worth the trouble...

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 13):
- Qantas: same story as with the Emirates picture

Might mark it down for some further work in the future then... I'll keep shooting in the meantime.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 13):
- Australian Air Express: a little dark and oversharpened (apparent jaggies); although no part of the plane is really blocked by anything it might fall under motive rejection as the picture is pretty cluttered on the right side. But if you don't care too much about acceptance ratio you could give it a try.

Again, maybe not worth the effort. Don't really mind the acceptance ratio at the moment. I'm on a steep learning curve in trying to take shots that are worthy of the high views this site gets. If this shot isn't up to standard, then I am better off trying to work on other shots. It might be beneficial to work on it though to get a greater knowledge of photoshop.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 13):
A little guide that might help you with your self-screening:
http://planecatcher.com/IGRR.htm

I've seen it many times and it is wonderful. I must thank you very much for posting it! Given my acceptance ratio be sure that I have read it many, many times!  Wink
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ThierryD
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 14):
How would that only affect the aircraft, without deselecting the background? I don't see the difference with the curve.

Since with the S/H tool you don't have to select anything; the software recognizes the brigher versus the darker areas and thus only works on the intended ones. In my opinion it's a much cleaner tool if used properly on those kind of photos.

Here's what I came up with (only a very quick edit!):
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 695 File size: 597kb
S/H tool


Thierry
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ptrjong
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):

Thanks. It does tend to create banding in the sky, at least when used too coarsely.
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monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:18 am

Ok folks, I have done some editing on the ones that might have some potential and I was hoping to hear what you guys think of them....

EK A345 - have added another kick of USM, as well as shadows/highlights (50% highlights and a small dash of shadows to match)

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...9293&filename=1173222333hHYhZJ.jpg

DJ 737 - rotated to be level, extra USM in areas and I think I have it a bit lower in the frame now.

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...9293&filename=1173222521qfAqQW.jpg

I will not bother with any of the other shots for now unless anyone thinks I should.

Thanks,

Carl
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locsta
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:35 am

I like this shot, but will probably get a level rejection.
Here it is with 1.36 CCW
Missed 4 chasing 1
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 20):
I like this shot, but will probably get a level rejection.
Here it is with 1.36 CCW

What was your reference point for the levelling? I'd have to start with a new canvas.
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locsta
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 21):
What was your reference point for the levelling? I'd have to start with a new canvas.

The horizon of the runway, but nobody else mentioned it so maybe its just me?
Missed 4 chasing 1
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 22):
The horizon of the runway, but nobody else mentioned it so maybe its just me?

It was mentioned earlier by LIPH but I don't think I corrected it... I suspect you're right with about 1.4CCW. It will be touch and go with cropping but hopefully it works out.

I find levelling quite difficult in general. For example, if I use the runway as a point, it will be technically level yet the plane and taxiway will appear unlevel due to the angle of the camera and the level of the ground being different. However if I use the taxiway, then the runway will be out and equally as noticeable. How do people usually overcome problems like this?
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monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:23 pm

Ok... EK A345 re-edited... Now has USM fix, CCW rotation and shadow/highlights.

I suspect it now has some jaggies... Any easy way to check for this. I need a better monitor!!!

http://www.airliners.net/uf/536889293/1173241196J12wRT.jpg
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aussie18
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 24):
Ok... EK A345 re-edited... Now has USM fix, CCW rotation and shadow/highlights.

I suspect it now has some jaggies... Any easy way to check for this. I need a better monitor!!!

Yes it is quite jaggy around nose and cockpit of aircraft,also emirates titling.
But the crop looks way to tight on the nose,almost cropped on nose and same for winglet.

Cheers Mark.
 
locsta
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:07 am

great job Carl!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carl J Maroney

Missed 4 chasing 1
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Advice On Whether To Attempt Upload

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 26):
great job Carl!

Thanks very much for your help with it!  Smile
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