locsta
Posts: 288
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Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:56 am

I knew this shot would risk a motiv rejection but thought the brake testing was pretty cool.
http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...20070302_Korean-HL7758-braking.jpg
It was rejected for contrast with a personal note saying it was a nice shot and to please fix the contrast and reupload....

Today the re-edit was rejected for soft, oversharp, and MOTIV  Confused
http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...20070308_Korean-HL7758-braking.jpg

I wouldn't have bothered to fix it and reupload if I had gotten the motiv rejection the first time.

Sometimes I feel there is a concipracy to keep my ratio below 60%  Wink
but seriously isn't there a way to aviod this type of thing?

Just a little venting, as I usually don't complain about rejections.

Thanks!

Kevin
Missed 4 chasing 1
 
dc10tim
Posts: 1380
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:04 am

Hi Kevin,

I like the effect, but the shot seems a little "awkward". Not quite qualifying for a nose shot, but at the same time not showing the whole aircraft. Have you tried a closer crop of the front end of the fuselage?

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
gmonney
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:05 am

Hey Kevin,

Nice shot, the only thing is you cut off the tail... that will cause the motiv rejection... as far as the soft.. this image could use some sharpening, just a little, but, its boarder line over exposed, have a look at the engine... and the white of the body is close...

I hope that helps,

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
gmonney
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:06 am

Hey Tim,

Actually a side profile of the front quarter doesn't qualify as a "nose" crop.. only a head on shot of the nose does... just to let you know...

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
JeffM
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:09 am

It's a great shot.

That photo is no where near overexposed. Sometimes I think people are so used to underexposed shots that theydon't know what to do when a proper exposure comes a long. "Close" is where white is supposed to be.
 
locsta
Posts: 288
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 2):
Nice shot, the only thing is you cut off the tail... that will cause the motiv rejection

Thanks for the replies. This was my point, it wasn't rejected on the 1st time around for motiv, so I took the time to re-edit it based on the assumption that it had ducked the motiv stick for whatever reason.
My motiv was to show the long trail of burning rubber and also leave the series number in frame, but I understand it is off balance and/or akward.
I didn't think it was overexposed?
Thanks again!

Kevin

[Edited 2007-03-08 02:17:35]
Missed 4 chasing 1
 
dc10tim
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:18 am

Hi Grant,

On second glance, I wouldn't upload a closer crop as a "nose" shot. I have a couple of shots of the front end in the DB that include the wing like that, which aren't uploaded as such.

Where do you draw the line as to what is and isn't though? This one is a side-on shot and I would say shows the first 1/4.


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Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 3):
only a head on shot of the nose


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and so on... None of the last 10 accepted 'nose' shots is a headon.

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Knighty
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:05 am

Exposure wise - I'd say it's spot on! Like Jeff said, white is supposed to be close to being overexposed - not a washed out grey!
Motiv - I thnk if you'd cropped it behind the left gear it would seem more balanced while still showing plenty of smoke.

Knighty
Ian Knight - Proud Canon shooter!
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 2):
as far as the soft.. this image could use some sharpening, just a little,

MORE sharpening? That shot looks way over-sharpened on my screen. Jaggies all over the flaps, the top of the fuselage and the nose gear doors.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
eadster
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:55 pm

I'm going to agree with Knighty and Jeff here. The shot is pretty much spot on exposure wise.

As for sharpening more, you'll just add another rejection reason to the list as it will go for jaggered.

This is another no win situation. I can understand your frustration in having it rejected for totally different reasons the second time around.

Sorry Kevin, but its a great shot and its a shame about the shot being booted.

I gather that the shot was screened on a CRT monitor??
 
Woody001
Posts: 508
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 4):
That photo is no where near overexposed. Sometimes I think people are so used to underexposed shots that theydon't know what to do when a proper exposure comes a long. "Close" is where white is supposed to be.

Jeff is bang on with this comment.
I have had my acceptance ratio drop from something like 85% down to 56% now. The majority of rejections I have had were Exposure, the images were bright, clear and spot on according to both Capture One and Photoshop.

I use a CRT that is calibrated every week, how many screeners can say they calibrate their monitors?

In my view things are getting daft around here now.

Ian.
If I could just get the afterburner working...
 
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acontador
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:17 am

Hi Kevin,

Well, you definitely have a good image there that will eventually make it into the DB!
Grant gave you good hints on why it was rejected, but I have to say that like Jeff and the others pointed out, I have a hard time finding any overexposure on it (hard to find a few 255s). There are a couple of small parts where some selective sharpening wouldn't hurt (engine cowling, fuselage underside), while others are almost oversharpened (mostly high contrast lines). Overall, if it wasn't for the motive (and maybe even with the motive) I would appeal.
If you want to try a reedit, then just go for a very little less contrast (will help you with the oversharpened lines), crop closer to the left main landing gear (or better, if you have a frame with the full tail in it, include that one), and you should be ready to go - good luck!
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:07 am

Hi Kevin.

Such a crop is always borderline motiv, when I screened it I noted the motiv, anytime you have 2/3s or 3/4s of an airframe it will be borderline.

I gather that the shot was screened on a CRT monitor??

Of course it was, we screen on CRTs. And, it is jaggie on my monitor, the trailing edge of the wing looks like:



The whites look really "hot" around the wing root.

I use a CRT that is calibrated every week, how many screeners can say they calibrate their monitors?

Mine is calibrated. Wanna come over and have a peek? I will even buy you lunch.

The majority of rejections I have had were Exposure, the images were bright, clear and spot on according to both Capture One and Photoshop.

And how does Photoshop tell you exposure is spot on? Examples please!
 
Woody001
Posts: 508
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:04 am

Lunch sounds good Royal!  coffee 
I'm glad to hear that at least one screener has their monitor calibrated.

These are a couple of images in question;
Image 1
Image 2

Hope you can help.

Ian.
If I could just get the afterburner working...
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:10 pm

Ian - that first shot is very washed out. Look at the trees, no way the scene looked like that given the sun was to the rear of your shooting position.

The second shot seems okay, exposure wise, but looks a little soft and has a bit of a blue cast.

Royal
 
Woody001
Posts: 508
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:22 am

Thanks for taking the time to look.
I see what you mean about the first shot, I will have a play with it in Photoshop.

Cheers,
Ian.
If I could just get the afterburner working...
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Why Does This Happen?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Woody001 (Reply 11):
I use a CRT that is calibrated every week, how many screeners can say they calibrate their monitors?

There is no relation between monitor calibration and the exposure of any given photo.
A monitor is just a output device which does not have any effect on the histogram calculated by PS or any other program.
All you need is this little levels window:



to see that the highlights(albeit just) as well as the dark tones are off the scale which means there is to much contrast put into it.
The use of "auto levels" and/or "auto contrast" will give you the same result in many cases.

So reduce the contrast somewhat with "Layer" , "New Adjustment layer" , "Brightness/Contrast" (as one of the possibilities) and go from there.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:41 am

In fairness to Kevin your Levels Window ("Histogram") has the Airliners.net copyright bar, which is pure black, and thus why your seeing "dark tones are off the scale" (your words).
 
aviopic
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 18):
In fairness to Kevin your Levels Window ("Histogram") has the Airliners.net copyright bar, which is pure black, and thus why your seeing "dark tones are off the scale" (your words).

Oeps..... forgot about the bar but apart from that it does not chance the theory.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
Woody001
Posts: 508
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RE: Why Does This Happen?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:48 pm

Things worked out for this shot anyhow.
Cheers Royal for your advice.  bigthumbsup 


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Ian.
If I could just get the afterburner working...

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