chris78cpr
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Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:31 pm

Well thats the question....

I was sat with my tutor today who was looking at my images i have taken for my uni project and he criticised me for not using a lot of good images that i have left in the original folder. My reason to him for not using them was that they were not really sharp when viewed at 100% on screen. He told me i was being a t**t for thinking like that and that content matters in a photo and not it's perfection sharpness wise. While it can't be OOF it can be a little soft if the content there is very special.

This got me thinking. I have declined to edit plenty of shots from my photo shoots as they are not 100% pin sharp. But in reality i am only going to use them at 8"x12"at the most and they would work perfect for that use?

When i look for shots for anet they have to be pin sharp or i wont edit them. Without realizing this has spilled over into my other work and it has had a negative affect.

Am i alone in doing this? Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Chris

P.S. This is not criticising the website in any way, im just curious.
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LIPH
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photogr

Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:38 pm

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Am i alone in doing this? Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Chris, yes, it happen also to me, when I find myself looking at a picture of a great photog saying : "maaan, that's soft, that's blurry".
Honestly I think that photography is an art, an expressive art, and being that, has no rules at all. A.net rules are another story, nothing that has to do with real photograhy as an art. I see A.net rules just as a *FILTER* and so must be considered. Creativity is endless and without rules.

Ciao

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:39:01]

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:40:06]

[Edited 2007-03-28 12:40:25]
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
viv
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:50 pm

I keep my "real" photography totally separate from my "Anet" photography. I do not allow cross-infection.

The standards for acceptance here go against generally-accepted artistic and technical standards for photography. Obvious examples are the Anet rules for centering and cropping.

But then, the owner of this site is not a photographer ....
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
IL76
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:26 pm

My entry in the world of photography started with planes. Before shooting aircraft I snapped away with a small point and shoot on holidays, but nothing worth mentioning. So from day one I have been obsessed with sharpness, only to be exaggerated when someone gave me an Ansel Adams book.

But when I was photographer at a wedding last year, I realised that perfect sharpness is sometimes an unattainable goal and while trying to reach that goal you miss out on a lot of great photographs. Most people don't even see the things that you think are flaws. So at some point you have to flick the switch and tell yourself: "This is not an airplane, some people do not want to see the pimples on their noses, blurry is your friend!"

Aviation and landscapes: To me sharpness is very important, blurry pictures get deleted.
People and other stuff: Whatever works, anything goes.

E
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:26 pm

I try to keep them seperate, but often find myself commenting on the sharpness and other stuff. All depends on your intentions for the shot I guess.
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
Rotate
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

YES! But its not the sharpness ..... , I am totally fine with not so sharp images in general. E.g. - shooting my daughter with 1/10s while she rides her bike ...... - That shot doesnt have to be A.net sharp.

Its basically the planning and the whole surounding which changed ....... - I do think a lot more before shooting general ...

Is it better now? I dont know .... , I dont want to overemphasize the whole A.net thing on my normal shooting style ..

Quoting IL76 (Reply 3):
Aviation and landscapes: To me sharpness is very important, blurry pictures get deleted.
People and other stuff: Whatever works, anything goes.

 checkmark 

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Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

Robin
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TransIsland
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):

Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

No, but it drives my wife mad when I try to level and centre them!  Wink
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
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acontador
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):
Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

You hit it Robin, that's it man!

My current wallpaper... sly 

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ghostbase
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Chris78cpr (Thread starter):
Or has uploading to anet affected how you view your personal photography?

Very much so. I used to be a 'spotter' photographer for many years and my attitude was that it was better to have a crappy shot of something rare rather than no shot at all. When I started uploading here just over three years ago the early rejections made me think hard about the standard of my photography, also the perhaps more important processsing part of the hobby when scanning 20 year old films and slides. The positive result has been that my processing skills are good and when I take photos of aircraft now I take into consideration whether they will be 'hobby' shots or submitted to A.Net; my standards are much higher for that and that has given me much personal fulfilment.

On the negative side I am finding that the A.Net standards tend to be getting still higher and the equipment needed to take those great photos is slowly becoming beyond my reach and, sometimes, I just feel like I cannot be bothered any more. I also recently hit a 98% acceptance rate and now I am reluctant to submit photos in case I get a rejection!

To be quite honest A.Net has also had another negative effect. I have never pretended to be a great photographer however I have managed to achieve a few of the 'milestones' here like 1000 shots in the db, average 1000 views per photo, even a top photo of 24 hours (now that was a thrill!). However, as much as I try to ignore them, the numerous "So and so achieves 100 photos" posts followed by dozens of posters all saying well done mate, fantastic photos, youre the best really burns me up. They just confirm that A.Net is the same as real life where self-publicists and egotists happily grab all the attention and kudos but the majority of contributing photographers, people who are perhaps of a more modest nature, just get on with quietly adding long-term value to the database but get little recognition. I really would like to see these 'Well Done Mate' posts stopped 'cos they are pretty demotivating and sadly that has spilled over into my personal photography  Sad

Oh well, I'll just get back on with my middle-age crisis...

 ghost 
"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
 
Cadet57
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:51 am

Nope. I dont shoot for a.net. I shoot for enjoyment and to create images I and hopefully others will like. Any person who isnt happy with their work because "it wont get in the DB" is off their rocker.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
LIPH
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Rotate (Reply 5):
Anyway ... - is there anything better than shoot pictures of your kids .... ?

Yes Robin,
there is : shooting pictures to girls and models !!  rotfl 

Ciao
Life sucks. Then you die. Live fast, die young.
 
CalgaryBill
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:18 am

I have found that airliners.net raised my abilities. I learned a lot here about editing that I might not have figured out on my own. Even with all the books I read, a.net made the academic stuff practical. However, I still shoot very different styles for other uses such as weddings, corporate work, etc.

Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 8):
However, as much as I try to ignore them, the numerous "So and so achieves 100 photos" posts followed by dozens of posters all saying well done mate, fantastic photos, youre the best really burns me up.

Can't agree with that one. If some folks on here have friends, supporters or admirers willing to plug them for significant achievements, be happy for them. 100 photo's doesn't light my fire, but I'd still rather see "Picklehead hits 100 photo's" than "Please prescreen these 600 photos for me." If we don't like the thread, we don't have to open it. My last employer ran into this problem with birthday parties - the people who were forgotten on their b'day complained, so they had a rule that we couldn't celebrate birthdays. That is demotivating.

B
 
dlednicer
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:08 am

I have found that a.net in general has improved my photography quite a bit. The standards have forced me to start thinking a lot more about the details of a shot as a I take it. I am much more conscious of the lighting and composition. I've also started carrying a tripod so that I don't have to gamble in low lighting situations. Pictures now are not "view them a couple of times and throw them in the slide box". Having an outlet has also boosted my enthusiasm for shooting pictures.

Interestingly, I have found that it has bled over to my wife, who doesn't shoot airplane pictures, but does shoot a lot of pictures on our travels. I have passed on my lessons and now she is much more aware of the details of a shot. On our last trip to Asia, we shot about 40Gb of pictures and I found that it was hard to sort this down to a show of less than 500 pictures, as they were all so good. She tends to see shots that I miss, particularly of people.
 
ake0404ar
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:19 am

Yes and no, bottom line is what you want to do with the images at the end of the day.

A.net is certainly one of the best places on the internet where you can display your shots. Ain't it a bad shot, just because it did not made it into the database. Hell no, art directors and editors have a total different approach. I would even say, shots which got kicked back as a motiv rejection at a.net have a very good chance to be a "high seller".

VG.
 
photopilot
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
I keep my "real" photography totally separate from my "Anet" photography. I do not allow cross-infection.

The standards for acceptance here go against generally-accepted artistic and technical standards for photography. Obvious examples are the Anet rules for centering and cropping.

But then, the owner of this site is not a photographer ....

A very insightfull commentary on A.net photography and the sad state of photography that A.net now propagates.

It's all about the "rules" and not about the true photographic "feel" of whether an image is good or not. Cropping, level, centering and motive are all areas that have approached the stupidity point here on A.net.

But frankly, as long as my name is spelt correctly on the cheque from my clients, I really no longer care if A.net accepts the images or not.
 
skidmarks
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 8):

Got in one Ghostie. Proper "spotter" pics to illustrate the stuff you've seen and put a tick in the book for are priceless and usually blurred, cluttered, off-centre and askew. But Airliners.net and other sites have certainly improved my style and content. However, it is too easy to fall into the "must be sharp and centred" point of view and away from the "shit, I must have a pic of that whatever happens" one.

I have also found that digital photography has improved my overall capability as well. I used to have to put up with slightly tilted horizons, not quite everything in shot, blown-out pictures. Now I can tweak them a little to remove some of the ambiguities.

Overall I have improved I hope, but I still have the old spotter feeling that any shot is worth it if it's the only one you get. I just won't show you lot thats all! Big grin

Andy  old 
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Kukkudrill
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:38 am

A.net has taught me a lot about the technical side of photography and practically all I know about photo editing. I'm glad for it, even though I agree with those who say that the artistic side to photography matters more. It's interesting to look at photos in aviation magazines with an a.net perspective. Clearly editors are a lot less particular than a.net ...
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photogr

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:49 am

approached the stupidity point here on A.net.

Followed only by your constant rantings, I'm sure.

The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

That being said, there are thousands of shots here that, by definition, could get a bad crop or bad motiv rejection, but clearly the photog knew what they were trying to achieve, and the picture(s) was accepted on its merit.

If you want to cut off a winglet because you needed 24mm but you only had 28mm, that is your business, but those type of shots no longer make the grade here.

And it makes me wonder why people will take a long time to color correct a photo but won't take the few seconds it takes to make sure it is level. Most cameras have a grid in the viewfinder, it isn't rocket science Big grin
 
photopilot
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
And it makes me wonder why people will take a long time to color correct a photo but won't take the few seconds it takes to make sure it is level. Most cameras have a grid in the viewfinder, it isn't rocket science

I defy any photographer to look at the grid on a camera's viewfinder and tell whether a shot is within the 1/2 degree of level that is often argued about here. Hell, we've even seen threads where they argue about 1/10th of a degree. And you are trying to tell us that you can tell THAT from a camera grid screen. Oh give me a break!!!!
 
AC773
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 18):
Oh give me a break!!!!

While I agree that on-camera grids wouldn't be entirely effective for the increments you mentioned (I've never even seen one on an SLR), you have to admit that the grid in Photoshop kind of nulls all excuses about leveling. As I'm sure you know, it's just as fast and just as easy.
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ake0404ar
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 14):
But frankly, as long as my name is spelt correctly on the cheque from my clients, I really no longer care if A.net accepts the images or not.

Not exactly my words, but it comes close. Still Royal's statement makes sense too.......

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

Nevertheless, I'd love to dig out some shots from long time contributors, who actually know very well what they are doing, but still do get those "silly" motiv rejections. (IMO these shots are a loss for a.net and if accepted could make the site even more popular)

Anyway...don't want to go into details. This has been discussed over and over.

VG.
 
Kukkudrill
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

That being said, there are thousands of shots here that, by definition, could get a bad crop or bad motiv rejection, but clearly the photog knew what they were trying to achieve, and the picture(s) was accepted on its merit.

I have to say my experience bears this out. I have had shots accepted in which I deliberately framed the subject off centre for various reasons - including one recent shot which made top of the day here, whereas on another site it got rejected for bad composition and too much dead space.

Granted, there was a time here at a.net when photos cropped to 4:3 were rejected as bad motive for the sole reason that the screener felt they should be 3:2. But thankfully it seems that sanity has prevailed.
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
wallace
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:16 am

Airliners.net may be THE paragon of on-line aviation photo databases but its is not a paragon of photography in general.

In short, submitting photographs to a.net does affect my personal photography. I was slated quite rightly by a judge in a Camera Club photo competition when I submitted a close cropped and centred picture processed for a.net. I should have known that composition is everything in a photograph and it is not even paid lip service here.
"..... for beauty is written on the eye of the screener."
 
JRadier
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):

The reason we enforce things like centering and motiv is because most people don't understand good composition, much less know how to practice it, so they compare *their* shot to something tastefully done in the database that (in their mind) looks similar.

I agree partitially on this (recently got one accepted that falls outside the a.net cropping criteria), tho I think there is still room for improvement
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
INNflight
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:24 am

while we're at it, could you please get rid of that noa_level thingy his Royalness?
Would love to upload this chunk of fat  Smile


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fattie
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INNflight
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:25 am

oh wait... add colour and motiv to the list
Jet Visuals
 
JRadier
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting INNflight (Reply 25):
oh wait... add colour and motiv to the list

how about underexposed?  Wink
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
eadster
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:16 am

That "chunk of fat" would not look as great leveled, correct colour etc etc...

Nice shot indeed...!!
 
Stealthz
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:53 am

Been thinking about this topic for a day or two.
As many of you know my photographic background predates my A.net photography by a substantial amount.
When I first came here I was quite shocked by the composition of the photos as they went against much of what I had learned over the years.
I was pretty vocal about saying so as well, then as I learned what this site was about and the reasons for it's Rules I started to accept things a little more readily. I do recall once a friend out with me one day commenting on a "creative" shot I took saying "Airliners will reject that".. well no they won't because I never intended submitting it.

Back to- Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography?
I hope not, much of my photography does not have the Sharp, Centered, Exposure requirements of Airliners.net.
What has Airliners.net done for my other work, it has improved my post processing, well not sure improved is the correct word but it has imposed a discipline that has made my work more consistent and for that I am grateful.

Cheers

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:35 pm

I actually like that A380 shot.

Pretty freaking sweet.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:57 pm

composition is everything in a photograph and it is not even paid lip service here

Everyone knows the screeners at airliners.net only accept photographs that are perfectly centered and are cropped MEGA TIGHT.


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Stealthz
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
composition is everything in a photograph and it is not even paid lip service here

Everyone knows the screeners at airliners.net only accept photographs that are perfectly centered and are cropped MEGA TIGHT.

Whilst I know Royal was not directly quoting my post I am happy to reword it...

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 28):
When I first came here I was quite shocked by the composition of the photos as they went against much of what I had learned over the years.

Should now read....When I first came here I was quite shocked by the composition of many of the photos as they went against much of what I had learned over the years.

With all due repect to Royal, the photos you have highlighted and many others like them are rather the exceptions that prove the rule.

Cheers

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:57 pm

So you think static airframe shots should follow rules of third? Or maybe a candid shot of a winglet?

I think many of the shots here follow good rules of composition. Things like lines (j lines), repetition (tails at AMS or widebodies at MAN), symmetry (water reflections, nose to nose shots) are in the database.

Things like horizons and intentional dead space don't really work here, and the reason why is a huge % of the people who upload here are not photographers, they are spotters with cameras. Don't think the screening team doesn't know the difference.

Anyways, I am too tired to argue, knock yourselves out. I'm going to go make some art.

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Shep
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:00 pm

Centered and tight is acceptable...

Sharp with good color is also acceptable - within reason...

True artistic photos are accepted - as shown in reply 30...

What more can be said ?

If the screeners are not sure - Johan will display the photos here.

One thing is sure - Airliners.net is - and always will be - the Cream of the Crop...
 
Stealthz
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:17 pm

It seems my comments about learniing and accepting the A.net criteria have been taken somewhat personally(and incorrectly) by Royal.
That was not the intention and I accept his comments but if Airliners.net places itself above comment and discussion then that is a sad day.
As Shep said Airliners.net is the cream of the crop for this type of work.
Is it a standard to judge all photography, or even all aviation photography by,That is whole different question.

Best regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
eadster
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 34):
Airliners.net places itself above comment and discussion then that is a sad day.

It certainly does. That's been the case since I've been a member...

I've always been given the impression that "Anet knows best so don't question it".

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
Everyone knows the screeners at airliners.net only accept photographs that are perfectly centered and are cropped MEGA TIGHT.

Come on Royal. Don't make this turn sour. It was a reasonable comment.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 14):

It's all about the "rules" and not about the true photographic "feel" of whether an image is good or not.

And that's where newbies come along and screw things up for themselves.

Remember that photography is an art and there aren't any rules.
 
MidEx216
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RE: Do Anet Standards Affect Your Personal Photography

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
Everyone knows the screeners at airliners.net only accept photographs that are perfectly centered and are cropped MEGA TIGHT.

While I agree that statement is quite strong, and I in fact am a fan of all of those pictures you posted as examples, I do believe that sometimes, artistic quality isn't given it's dues here. It's almost as if a limit has been placed on artistry as well, which is just absurd.

On topic, I do feel that A.net has affected my photography. Half of me starts to pressure myself to take 'safe shots'. Pictures I know are gonna have better quality because there's no risks in the photography process. I'm doing too many full-frame, side-on / three-quarter shots, rather than taking a chance to get a nice panning shot. One of my ex-A.net friends says I "need to stop shooting for Airliners". I agree, but I'm becoming paranoid because I use this as a gauge to the quality of my shooting....which I shouldn't.

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