coninpa
Topic Author
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:36 pm

### The "Centre" Question

Hi all,

I always have trouble to decide how to centre
The following shot is "mathematically" centered (top of fin versus bottom of gear, front of nose versus rear of elevator).

But it seems to me that there is not enough space in front of the nose...

However, similar photos are accepted:

 View Large View MediumPhoto © Anders Olsen View Large View MediumPhoto © Gerry Stegmeier

Can anyone give ideas on the "exact" rules (or reference) regarding centering ?
Any other comment on this photo is welcome.

Thanks a lot
Patrick
Patrick De Coninck

KLM772ER
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 5:29 pm

### RE: The "Centre" Question

I would crop the shot more closely to the aircraft and don't leave too much space between the aircraft and the border of the picture!
And at all the aircraft maybe a little more down in the frame, but that's just my opinion!

Cheers
Björn

iRISH251
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

I don't agree with the practice of cropping right up to the nose/tail of the aircraft. No one ever did this before digital came along and it does not make for a pleasing photo, in my view. A small amount of space is preferable, in my opinion, but no doubt there are many others who will disagree.

walter2222
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:40 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Coninpa (Thread starter):Can anyone give ideas on the "exact" rules (or reference) regarding centering ?

Hello Patrick,

There are no "exact" rules... the magic word is "balance", and this does not mean that the distance from the edge of the shot to the bottom of the gear should be equal to the distance from the top of the fin to the upper edge. You should look at the aircraft as "a volume" within the rectangular of the picture, and this volume should be balanced within this rectangular.

Please also have a look at Thierry's illustrated guide (that is probably better than my explanation):

http://planecatcher.com/IGRR/Centered.htm

From this, you can read that it is best to have equal spaces on the left and right of your shot (so, for yours, I would slightly reduce the space in front of the nose). For the vertical centering, I would also slightly lower it in the picture, but not much.

PS: I cannot judge the quality, I am on my laptop

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...

coninpa
Topic Author
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:36 pm

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quote:the magic word is "balance"

Hello Walter (a long time ago for me...). That's my problem! I definitelly have to develop the "artistic" part of my brain...
Cheers
Patrick De Coninck

coninpa
Topic Author
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:36 pm

### RE: The "Centre" Question

Thank you all. I re-edited and uploaded.

Best Regards
Patrick
Patrick De Coninck

walter2222
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:40 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Coninpa (Reply 4):I definitely have to develop the "artistic" part of my brain...

Hi Patrick, don't worry, you are still ahead of me! I am still searching... when I find it, then I can start developing it

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...

ThierryD
Crew
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

### RE: The "Centre" Question

Hi Patrick!

Walter put it quite nicely and I'll have to agree about what's being said in the mentionned guide  ; however one thing I did not yet include is the vertical centering; one thing that works quite good on those side-on shots is to center the photo along the centerline of the fuselage, namely the middle point between the top and the bottom of the fuselage above the wing area (as this is the middle of the aircraft (normally  )). So your plane is still a little low in frame.

Regarding the overall quality of the picture I'm afraid to say that its chances of acceptance here are rather random: very bright light on top, pretty dark underneath and soft.
While the softness will be easily corrected the lighting will most probably kill the shot for A.net as Fokker 70s at AMS are just too common in the db so quality requirements are extremely high. Too bad; I'd plead for every Fokker 70/100 to be an instant ad to the db!

Cheers and greetings to LUX!

Thierry

photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Irish251 (Reply 2):I don't agree with the practice of cropping right up to the nose/tail of the aircraft. No one ever did this before digital came along and it does not make for a pleasing photo, in my view. A small amount of space is preferable, in my opinion, but no doubt there are many others who will disagree.

You've pretty well hit this right on. A.net has to a great extent become somewhat "formulamatic" where visually silly crops (though mathmatically perfect) are now almost the standard. As you note, in the days of slide shooting with film, there was always some breathing room between the subject and the frame edges. As most slide mounts slightly "cropped" an image, and even viewfinders generally only showed 90-95% of the actual frame edge, there was a natural breathing room to most images. However the digital age and hours of post-processing has resulted in unnatural crops to within pixels of the subject. To anybody with any artistic sense, it looks totally unnatural, but hey.... we're in the era of technical perfection that can be judged (screened) using mathmatics and sadly, no longer photographic judgement.

Now I'll be flamed by those who state this is a database of aircraft and not a photography site. Sad but true.

Steve

Stealthz
Posts: 5551
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8): Now I'll be flamed by those who state this is a database of aircraft and not a photography site.

Certainly not by me Steve.
I am in total agreement.

Patrick, it is a shame you did not leave your original on line for a little longer so others could comment.
I don't think I am the only one that finds it frustrating when trying to offer advice only to find the subject of the thread has disapeared, in this case after only a couple of hours.

Cheers

[Edited 2007-05-22 02:13:43]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!

dvincent
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8): You've pretty well hit this right on. A.net has to a great extent become somewhat "formulamatic" where visually silly crops (though mathmatically perfect) are now almost the standard. As you note, in the days of slide shooting with film, there was always some breathing room between the subject and the frame edges. As most slide mounts slightly "cropped" an image, and even viewfinders generally only showed 90-95% of the actual frame edge, there was a natural breathing room to most images. However the digital age and hours of post-processing has resulted in unnatural crops to within pixels of the subject. To anybody with any artistic sense, it looks totally unnatural, but hey.... we're in the era of technical perfection that can be judged (screened) using mathmatics and sadly, no longer photographic judgement.

This goes along with the strict adherence to 3:2 aspect ratio... I've done better on my acceptances lately (up to 50% with my last batch of 4 of 5 uploads accepted) but there are times when I upload something that has a pretty good chance of getting in that I just don't think is as good as it can be.

A340-600s just need a more panoramic ratio to look better. I made a large format 16x9 inch print of this particular photo and it just looks great on a wall.
From the Mind of Minolta

Stealthz
Posts: 5551
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting Dvincent (Reply 10):I made a large format 16x9 inch print of this particular photo and it just looks great on a wall.

Have a few of those myself, if ever there was a subject that lent itself to a wide format, airliner photography would have to be it.
The subject has been pretty much flogged to death here though and I believe there is still significant resistance to change.
Never quite understood the almost passionate opposition. Perhaps the strict adherence to 3:2 and 4:3 ratios allows the "purists" to continue deluding themselves that the photos are "straight out of the camera"

With the growing acceptance of widescreen TV and perhaps even more so, widescreen PC monitors it is time to reasses the criteria.

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!

dvincent
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

### RE: The "Centre" Question

I hear the guys who do 4:3 have a hard enough time. What if you own a Panasonic LX-2, which has a native format of 16:9? Et cetera.

There was panoramic slide and negative film for the cameras that used it, too... I vividly recall toting a panoramic disposable film camera along with my SLR on vacations. Not bad for what it was, for 8x4.5 prints.
From the Mind of Minolta

coninpa
Topic Author
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:36 pm

### RE: The "Centre" Question

 Quoting ThierryD (Reply 7):one thing that works quite good on those side-on shots is to center the photo along the centerline of the fuselage

Hi Thierry, This sounds quite logic to me.   I'll try this. For the other "minor flaws"...  Thanks for your kind advice. I'll try to re-edit. Cheers (A beer or a C210 run any time if you are in the area...).

 Quoting StealthZ (Reply 9):it is a shame you did not leave your original on line for a little longer so others could comment

Point taken. You are right. I won't do it again

 Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):in the days of slide shooting with film

This is more philosophical... Of course I agree that a photo above all must be something "nice to look at". And here starts the subjective part   But I am not against technologies which permits to do today what was impossible before. It's how the world evolves... Maybe to its end...

Thank you all.
Patrick
Patrick De Coninck

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