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derekf
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Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:01 am

Once again the dreaded non-level Manchester airport buildings appear. I think I am going to write to Manchester airport to tell them the airport isn't level. There are so many verticals in this shot it isn't true. They are absolutely vertical by any measure I have tried. You cannot use the horizontals in this case.

Maybe a sign on the mound at the viewing park saying " Caution - buildings not level - do not attempt to upload photos to airliners.net taken from here"

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...big/20070720_EGCC_031107_N226G.jpg

No point in appealing as it was rejected for soft as well and appeal will probably add contrast, colour, dirt and common for good measure.

Very fed up and stuck on 1257 photos.

Derek
Whatever.......
 
EK20
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:12 am

Nice aircraft Derek!

But it does need some clockwise rotation. The tower looks like it is leaning to the left and it's very obvious. The aircraft is also soft even to the point of being blurred in fact.

Chin up though, I got a couple of rejections today myself. It's only when someone points something out you see how obvious it is.  

[Edited 2007-07-20 21:14:40]
 
ilikeflight
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting EK20 (Reply 1):

But it does need some clockwise rotation. The tower looks like it is leaning to the left and it's very obvious. The aircraft is also soft even to the point of being blurred in fact.

Agree completely
Think Different
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting EK20 (Reply 1):
But it does need some clockwise rotation.

Fair enough but how did you judge that and how much "unlevel" is it. I've used the grid on PSPX and all of the background buildings are vertical.

It was rejected for soft as well. It looks pretty sharp on my monitor even a bit oversharpened.

I've had 16 rejected out of 17 so I'm feeling pretty good. Going for a clean sweep!

Derek
Whatever.......
 
Psych
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:15 am

Derek.

I am thinking of doing a thesis on the issue of leveling at A.net - it could be quite interesting!

I know exactly what you mean about a photo appearing to be level by all accounts using things like a grid reference in PS. I have been there many times, and leveling shots at MAN can be the proverbial pain in the **se. Even though this may look just right in PS when you look at the photo there is no doubt that it looks in need of CW rotation. This is based on what you correctly identify as the right references - building verticals.

I have had a quick play and rotated the image by 0.3 degrees - a trivial amount I hear many say - but you cannot escape the fact it makes the tower building now look more level. Now if you go in PS this will still appear okay by those grid references.

Big version: Width: 700 Height: 475 File size: 304kb
Derek's Photo

What this has taught me is that the editing references are not enough - you then have to stand back and ask yourself the question - 'does it look right'? For me - despite a measly 0.3 degrees change - this image looks more level than your original.

No doubt A.net must be responsible for a great increase in the number of diagnoses for obsessive compulsive disorder  biggrin .

All the best.

Paul
 
Granite
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:16 am

Derek

Image is unlevel, soft AND dirty.

Correct all three and all should be OK.

Regards

Gary
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:35 am

There must be something wrong with my software because I cannot see where it is unlevel. Sorry Paul 0.3 CW makes the buildings in my version unlevel and frankly, if pictures are to be rejected for 0.3 of degree (which is 7/8th of naff all) then I give up.

Dirt - I knew there would something else - where? and why wasn't this mentioned in the original rejection e-mail?

Thanks for the replies folks but that's all from me for now. I'll let this one rest - it isn't worth bothering about any more.

Still hoping to get 1 out of 17 accepted.

Derek
Whatever.......
 
boeingfreak
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting DerekF (Reply 6):
Dirt - I knew there would something else - where?

I see one right above the tail, it's even visible without equalizing.

Florian
 
Psych
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting DerekF (Reply 6):
There must be something wrong with my software because I cannot see where it is unlevel.

I really do understand your frustration Derek - I have been there before. I have sworn a photo of mine is level, only to have to agree some time later that I was wrong. But forget about the software - just look at these two images - your original thread starter and my edit. You will see that I purposely did not re-crop your photo, so you can see the white of the border where it has been rotated. Even though it is this apparently measly amount there is now quite a bit (relatively speaking) of white canvas showing, which shows that the rotation is not as negligible as it sounds.

Though we have all complained about screening at times, the screeners' eyes will pick up on pretty small imperfections in level quickly - as they do dirt. I would support the decision that the original edit was not perfectly level. Now whether picking up on small issues like that is worthwhile is another matter altogether. That's more an issue for Johan's criteria than it is the screening decision.

Take care.

Paul
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:09 am

I've looked closely at the original, enlarged bits, looked at grids and if I was editing it from scratch it wouldn't be any different to the one I uploaded. If I could be bothered I would upload these enlargements but life is too short and a glass of Scottish wine is waiting.

Cheers!

Derek
Whatever.......
 
EK20
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:14 am

Derek,

I know it's hard and you might think the screeners are being picky but believe me they are not. Since submitting to anet I have branched out into many other types of photography and if it wasn't for this site, I'd still be an amateur.  Smile
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:42 am

Tell me about it . I'm still an amateur although I've sold a few and a few picture published. I've uploading here for over 6 years, since Johan did all the screening. I used to get most of a batch accepted, now I'm lucky to get any of batch accepted. If it wasn't for the fact I have more than a 1000 photos on here I'd be down in the 2 maximum upload.

I agree that my photography has improved since I started to upload here but my acceptance rate has gone down. Has the quality of my photos gone downhill - no - if anything they are much better - it is my editing skills that haven't improved enough. I don't know much about levels, or S/H or cloning or whatever. I still think good pictures come from the camera not from the software.

I had this rejected for quality and contrast.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...big/20070720_LEPA_300607_GEZAK.jpg

I had a chuckle to myself as I thought it was pretty much perfect - WRONG.

BTW I had this one accepted just thought I would share it with you all - Hooray 1 out of 17  


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Derek Ferguson




Rant over.


Derek

[Edited 2007-07-20 23:44:54]
Whatever.......
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:45 am

looks like your lens also has some barrel distortion. What lens is it?
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 12):
looks like your lens also has some barrel distortion. What lens is it?

It's the same Nikkor 75-300mm lens I had the last time you asked.
Whatever.......
 
EK20
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting DerekF (Reply 11):
I still think good pictures come from the camera not from the software.

That's right. Get the right pic in the first place and the editing is child's play. I wouldn't worry about anet. Standards are high but I've sold photographs to big companies that have been rejected here. Do things for youself first and anet second.

I got 300 euros for my last sale and anet rejected it.  Wink
 
spencer
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting DerekF (Reply 13):
It's the same Nikkor 75-300mm lens I had the last time you asked.

Hahahahahaha, man that was pretty funny Derek! Now let's talk about this Scottish wine problem of yours!!!
Spencer.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
ChrisH
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting EK20 (Reply 14):

I got 300 euros for my last sale and anet rejected it.

How many Big Macs does that get you in Dubai these days? 2 ?
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
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dvincent
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:19 am

Derek, I had a photo rejected for .1 degree off level (which I then corrected and resubmitted and it got in). It was also my only level rejection I've ever had, so I say I'm pretty darn good at leveling.  Smile

Sometimes, corrections within a few tenths of a degree may not skew the verticals too much but are necessary. In this case, .2 or even .3 would be a reasonable adjustment.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Spencer (Reply 15):
Now let's talk about this Scottish wine problem of yours!!!

Two glasses of Teachers and ready for bed  Smile
Whatever.......
 
dbudd
Posts: 191
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:07 am

By all accounts a photo should be leveled by verticals located in the center of the picture..

This does look to me that it needs a little CW rotation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/dave_budd/airliners/level.jpg


A nifty little program that runs on top of all other programs and one I use to check 'level' rejections without opening PS. Works in horizontal mode as well. Heck you can use two copies at the same time and check both vertical and horizontal aspects of a pic.

http://www.microfox.com/

Dave
 
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dvincent
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:25 am

The ruler app really isn't necessary, you can just turn on rulers in PS and then drag guides out and use horizontal and vertical guides to check leveling.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting DerekF (Reply 13):
It's the same Nikkor 75-300mm lens I had the last time you asked.

Of course, how could I forget.

Sounds like you have it all figured out  bigthumbsup 
 
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derekf
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:47 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 21):
Sounds like you have it all figured out

Meaning?
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Granite
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RE: Beware Manchester Airport Is Not Level!

Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:13 pm

Hi all

I think the situation of the levelling of the image is under control now so if the photographer would like to re-upload the image that would be great.

Regards

Gary

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