Mike89406
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Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:04 pm

I took some shots tonight of the moon you could clearly see some of the silouttes of the moon surface, after reviewing the pics I was suprised to see they were not as good as I wanted. The camera I used is a good quality point and shoot Canon
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...oAct&fcategoryid=145&modelid=14227 anyways I have taken some night shots http://picasaweb.google.com/Mike89406/DriveFromFallonNVReno and they have turned out great in the past. But somehow my achilles heel is taking moon shots I tried once before and don't get the detail I was hoping for.

Any photography gurus out there with any advice of what I'm doing wrong? Here are the pics I took tonite.
http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Mike89406/

Both my picasa album and photobucket album pics were taken with this same digital camera it does take great pictures. Only problem is it has more functions than Most people know what to do with. But I have used it enough to do most of the shots I'll ever take.

I tried shooting the moon shots in auto mode point and shoot no flash then automatic ISO, SCN Special Scene where you can pick night shots, Macro, Portraits and other specialized shooting modes all without flash. The shutter speed was as low as 1/8th

I have been reading the manual but to no avail I'm not sure if it's the exposure. or some little tweak I'm missing. Or maybe I need special equipment.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards, Mike

[Edited 2007-09-28 07:11:41]
 
IL76
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:36 pm

When I shoot a full moon (without a tripod) I choose: ISO200, 1/250s f7.1 or thereabouts (if I try to catch a plane going through it I might go for 1/320s f6.3). With ISO100 it goes to 1/125s, which is more prone to blurriness by camera shake, even with IS. Works pretty well, although a 1200mm would be nice.  Smile

Ed
 
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Moose135
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:44 pm

I think you will be hard pressed to get acceptable shots of the moon with that camera - looking at the specs, it looks like you are getting a lot of your zoom from the digital, rather than optical zoom, which isn't a "true" zoom. Also, the photos are very overexposed. The moon is actually very bright, especially against a dark sky. Your camera is probably taking an average exposure, and the dark sky is causing the meter to be fooled into thinking you need more light. Here's a shot I took last year with a 300D and 100-400L lens: http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/87768923-L.jpg
It's not a great shot, but it gives you some idea - it's cropped quite a bit, and was shot at 400mm. Looking at the EXIF, it was shot at ISO 100, 1/10 sec, and f/11.0

Can you set your shutter and aperture manually on that camera? If so, you may want to experiment with various settings to see what you get, but as I said, just looking at your shots, it looks like your main problem is they are very overexposed.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
michlis
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:27 pm

Here's a site that I have found helpful for moon photography:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/howtophoto/

I attach my Canon 20D to a Celestron C90 spotting scope (1000mm) with a T-ring adapter and use a remote to take the picture. I've gotten some pretty good results, especially at full moon.

[Edited 2007-09-28 13:31:51]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
oly720man
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:41 pm

A couple of mine. These are, respectively, dusk and morning so there isn't the difference in brightness between the moon and sky.


MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Andy kennaugh



Canon EOS300D, Sigma 70-300DG 1/125 F8 @t 210mm. With 2x converter @ 400ISO


MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Andy kennaugh


EOS300D 70-300mm with 2x converter=600mm @ 400ASA


I think you'll struggle with a point and shoot for reasons already indicated - exposure control, zoom. Also, most, if not all, point and shoots have worse image resolution than a DSLR because of the relative size of the optics and CCD.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Mike89406
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 2):
Can you set your shutter and aperture manually on that camera? If so, you may want to experiment with various settings to see what you get, but as I said, just looking at your shots, it looks like your main problem is they are very overexposed.

Yes there is a manual setting mode there are multiple functions I can change although I havent experimented with the manual it yet but I can set my shutter speed, aperture and some other functions.

For overexposure what do you recommend? Sounds like most of my problem.

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 2):
I think you will be hard pressed to get acceptable shots of the moon with that camera - looking at the specs, it looks like you are getting a lot of your zoom from the digital, rather than optical zoom, which isn't a "true" zoom.

I think you're right although I can get some steady shots that does make all the difference I'm still going to need more zoom.

Although my main concern was getting just a clear shot.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 4):
I think you'll struggle with a point and shoot for reasons already indicated - exposure control, zoom. Also, most, if not all, point and shoots have worse image resolution than a DSLR because of the relative size of the optics and CCD.

I know I'm probably not going to get blown up shots of the moon like you're shots. Although this camera was one of the better point and shoots I would still need a zoom lense and I don't know if it's feasable to just go out and get a zoom/telephoto lense for a small size camera.

Having said that there are enough functions on this camera that may just make the shots clearer the moon will be smaller.
 
oly720man
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RE: Moon Shots

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 5):
I don't know if it's feasable to just go out and get a zoom/telephoto lense for a small size camera.

You can buy extension lenses, e.g. Raynox

http://www.raynox.co.jp/english/dcr/dcr2020pro/index.htm

but they depend on the camera/lens because they either slide onto or screw onto the lens. They don't make one for your camera.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
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Moose135
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RE: Moon Shots

Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 5):
Yes there is a manual setting mode there are multiple functions I can change although I havent experimented with the manual it yet but I can set my shutter speed, aperture and some other functions.

For overexposure what do you recommend? Sounds like most of my problem.

Can you take a look at the settings used on the shots you took? See if you can view EXIF data for shutter, f-stop and ISO. From there, work on faster shutter speed and/or a smaller aperture (higher number - f/11.0 is smaller than f/7.1)
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
Mike89406
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RE: Moon Shots

Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 7):
Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 5):
Yes there is a manual setting mode there are multiple functions I can change although I havent experimented with the manual it yet but I can set my shutter speed, aperture and some other functions.

For overexposure what do you recommend? Sounds like most of my problem.

Can you take a look at the settings used on the shots you took? See if you can view EXIF data for shutter, f-stop and ISO. From there, work on faster shutter speed and/or a smaller aperture (higher number - f/11.0 is smaller than f/7.1)

Will do when I get home from work I'll check it.


BTW I forgot to mention that I don't have a tripod but I kept the camera as still as psosible by hand because the average automatic setting on night shots was like 1/8 of a second. On a couple of the pictures I balanced the camera on a solid flat surface.

I say that becase some people say having a tripod increases sharpness however I dont know how much that would of mattered anyways in my shots. If anything I'm thinking the manual settings would help more.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Moon Shots

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting Mike89406 (Thread starter):
I took some shots tonight of the moon you could clearly see some of the silouttes of the moon surface, after reviewing the pics I was suprised to see they were not as good as I wanted. The camera I used is a good quality point and shoot Canon

Well, in order to compare apples and apples, I will not show you a pic taken with a $1 trillion DSLR with a 240000mm lens (cause I don't have one yet Big grin) but some moon pics I took with a previous camera, an Olympus C765UZ which is also point&shoot.

Just with optical zoom I got this. I must admit it has 10x optical, so the equivalent focal length is 380mm. All pics were taken using a tripod (those tiny cheap ones). Also I always used the lowest ISO value to reduce noise.

(Click pics to enlarge)

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/P8080367.JPG
ISO64 f3.5 1/320

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/P9133702.JPG
ISO64 f3.5 0.6s

Now what happens if you use digital zoom? The camera just takes a crop of what it sees and interpolates that. So although your pic still has the same number of pixels, you lose quality. The result then looks like this:

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/P9143746.JPG
ISO64 f3.7 1.3s
Only slight digital zoom.

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/P8080363.JPG
ISO64 f3.7 1/400
Maximum digital zoom and never mind the composition  Smile

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/PA133919.JPG
ISO64 f3.7 1/10

http://dacabeca.com.sapo.pt/PA133914.JPG
ISO64 f3.7 1/60

So you see that with a point and shoot camera it is possible to get reasonable results (if I may say so) but once you use digital zoom the quality goes down very quickly. I normally wouldn't use it - and right now I can't cause I switched to the world of DSLRs where digital zoom doesn't exist.
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Mike89406
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RE: Moon Shots

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 7):
Can you take a look at the settings used on the shots you took? See if you can view EXIF data for shutter, f-stop and ISO. From there, work on faster shutter speed and/or a smaller aperture (higher number - f/11.0 is smaller than f/7.1)

Go in to http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x145/Mike89406/Moon%20Shots/ click on any individual image/picture in the photo bucket album linked and obviously the picture will show bigger at the bottom left under the picture it says Show Exif Data click on Show Exif Data and the full settings/properties are listed are automatically.



Mike

[Edited 2007-09-28 22:00:20]
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Moon Shots

Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:56 am

http://monteycarlos.deviantart.com/art/My-big-yellow-friend-41049671

I did this with 48x digital zoom on a canon S2IS. Its not perfect but a decent result for a compact digital.

I've since got a 400D with an EF 100-400mm and am in the process of buying a 2x TC so these kind of shots will be much easier soon.  

Quoting Michlis (Reply 3):
I attach my Canon 20D to a Celestron C90 spotting scope (1000mm) with a T-ring adapter and use a remote to take the picture. I've gotten some pretty good results, especially at full moon.

Can I see the results? I am interested in buying something like this but am curious about the mounts, the application of the spotting scope etc. Would you mind giving me some info?  Wink

[Edited 2007-09-29 02:57:44]
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
michlis
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RE: Moon Shots

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:23 pm

Quote:
Can I see the results? I am interested in buying something like this but am curious about the mounts, the application of the spotting scope etc. Would you mind giving me some info?

Can do.

The C90 I have is about 20 years old...here is a more recent version of the the C90 spotting scope:

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/from-...737003&rf=froogle&dfdate=9_26_2007


To mount my 20D, I connect a T-Mount adapter to the camera:

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/produ...-features.asp?id=522000111&redir=y

And the T-mount connects the camera and adapter to the C90.

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/produ...-features.asp?id=633835152&redir=y

Focusing is strictly manual, so it takes a few tries to get the focus right...I'll post some pictures when I get home this evening.

[Edited 2007-10-01 13:32:45]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
michlis
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RE: Moon Shots

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:22 am

Quote:
Can I see the results?

Here's a photo I took at the beginning of September. It's a little rough since I haven't taken a lot of time to clean it up.




The C90 is a 1000mm f/11 Schmidt-Casseigran spotting scope. With the 1.6X magnification of a DSLR, you are effectively getting 1600mm. I'm pretty sure you could attach a 2X Barlow lense to the T-mount so that you could double it to 3200mm.

[Edited 2007-10-01 22:23:50]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Moon Shots

Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:10 am

I noticed some shots are during daylight hours here, I think I could get a decent daylight shot like today I can see the moon during the high noon sky however when I was taking the shots it was dark at night and what seemed to be happening was light rings showing up and as you could see the contrasting darker areas of the moon/seas is you will. evidenced by the photo as in reply 13

Quoting Michlis (Reply 13):

As I mentioned before day shots are no problem. in fact i managed to snap some shots that were real gems I've even taken cabin shots at night always without flash and they come out great as well. For a point and shoot it s one of the better quality cameras at least when I bought it, You also have the option of doing manual stuff just like a legacy camera.

The weakness may be the lack theroff of adequate zoom without spending hundreds on additional equipment. However I will try my luck with some moon day shots.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Moon Shots

Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:29 am

A hint for moon photos... every day is a sunny day on the moon,
Go outside on a sunny day take some shots of sunlit objects, doesn't matter what, things in the garden, buildings whatever, make a note of those settings.
They may not be perfect for your moon shots but they make a real good starting point.

I would also tend to use a wider aperture(smaller numerically) and a higher shutter speed, this will help with camera shake and let's face it Depth of focus should not be a real issue

Cheers

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
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RE: Moon Shots

Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Michlis (Reply 13):
The C90 is a 1000mm f/11 Schmidt-Casseigran spotting scope. With the 1.6X magnification of a DSLR, you are effectively getting 1600mm. I'm pretty sure you could attach a 2X Barlow lense to the T-mount so that you could double it to 3200mm.

Cool thanks for the pic and the info... I may look at getting one.  Smile
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
michlis
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RE: Moon Shots

Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:11 am

Here's an example of how I used the moon as a backdrop:




Imagine someone wanting to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.  Confused

Quote:
I would also tend to use a wider aperture(smaller numerically) and a higher shutter speed, this will help with camera shake and let's face it Depth of focus should not be a real issue.

The link that I posted earlier in this thread has a chart of suggested shutter speeds to apertures for various phases of the moon. I've found them to be a good starting point for shooting the moon.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.

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