Psych
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Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:32 pm

I felt it appropriate to post here just to bring to the attention of photographers who may be First Class members that there has been a change to the site. This has also been discussed in Site related, but I feel is worth raising here so photographers are aware.

When you open up a photo to look at it, it is now surrounded by three banner ads - one above and two large ones either side. Without exception (so far for me) the side ads are very colourful and completely distracting to the viewer. Sometimes the content is moving too. It's a personal thing, but I feel this seriously degrades the quality of the site - and I speak here as a viewer and a photographer who hopes other people will be viewing my images. I am very disappointed that the experience has shifted to one now where the aircraft photo seems secondary to the adverts - not the other way round as it should surely be.

Ad blockers and First Class membership will preserve you from this, but you may also feel unhappy that the viewing environment for your images has changed in this way. I understand the realities of the world, and the need for revenue. I also understand I have it in my power to do something about this should I choose - but I just feel it is a sad development for a site that I value for its quality - and that includes the quality of the presentation.

Paul
 
McG1967
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:40 pm

If the photo is opened in Medium, there are 2 side banner ads either side - instead of the 1 when a Large photo is opened.
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:49 pm

I agree, they shouldn't be there. This is an unwelcome change, in my book.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
Psych
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:00 pm

For those who are unable to see, this is what it looks like:

http://www.kevin-bates.com/Ads.jpg

I needed a friend's help here, because it is still not possible to post using an image hosted in your profile.

Paul

P.S. Here is an example of the medium sized image:

http://www.kevin-bates.com/Ads2.jpg

[Edited 2007-11-04 09:07:15]
 
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dvincent
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting McG1967 (Reply 1):
If the photo is opened in Medium, there are 2 side banner ads either side - instead of the 1 when a Large photo is opened.

This is the most egregious of the two. It's really ridiculous. OK, my monitor is big enough, I can deal with the ads on the sides in the large one, but really. On the medium one it's just ridiculous.

Talk about trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
D L X
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:02 pm

I agree. Absolutely unwelcome, and it majorly detracts from the photo.
 
KLM772ER
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:13 pm

I also agree! They are very annoying and distracting while viewing a photo!!

DM should get rid of them again!!

Björn
 
JRadier
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:17 pm

I totally agree, for me this isn't acceptable. Banner on top is ok, but the side banners are just killing the image. I'm not going to threaten that I'll remove my images etc (not that DM would care with my numbers....), but this is another item since DM took over that does make me think about the position of a.net in regards to my photography.

[Edited 2007-11-04 09:19:02]
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
bmibaby737
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:23 pm

It's discusting, it really does make our photos/the website look 'cheap'. It distracts far to much.

This isn't right Demand Media!

Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 6):
get rid of them again!!
 
Psych
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:06 pm

I am not concerned about comparing A.net with any other sites - I simply want to be proud to have my photos hosted here. I look at my Ryanair shot above and simply want to remove it - it is just so unpleasant. As I said over at Site Related, it feels akin to hanging your own painting on a wall full of garish graffiti.

If only I had done a screen shot of another photo - then it would have had a well known scantily clad model advertising a shop dominating the page. What chance for some people to focus their attention on my photo given that competition (and it is so ironic given the debates of old about the portrayal of women in photos on this site  banghead  ).

Paul
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Psych (Thread starter):
I understand the realities of the world, and the need for revenue. I also understand I have it in my power to do something about this should I choose - but I just feel it is a sad development for a site that I value for its quality - and that includes the quality of the presentation.

Thanks for bringing this up Paul!
I can't but fully agree with you!
Revenue is certainly required to keep the site running and earn DM some money but if it's done at the cost of the site's viewing pleasure (and the mentionned ads do exactly that) it is not acceptable.
Back to the drawing board guys and come up with something smarter!

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
D L X
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:26 pm

Screeners and headscreeners, what do you think of this development? I think you'll find that the photographers will be nearly 100% opposed to this. It would be nice if there was a voice talking directly to DM saying just how unacceptable this is.
 
andrewuber
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
Screeners and headscreeners

Add to that list Mods, Database Editors, Article Editors, Customer Service & Support reps, management, Johan, etc....
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
D L X
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:41 pm

I'd also add that it looks like the SIX banner ads now take up MUCH more space than the medium photos, and the large photos don't fit in my window anymore with the new ads.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:05 pm

Absolutely disgusting.

Our worst fears of the acquisition have been reached I'm afraid.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
photopilot
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:07 pm

The look is now to be called Advertising by BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA

Take a look at how one of my photos looks. Surrounded by THREE of the same cartoon ads.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Steve_YYZ/Misc_Photos/anetads.jpg

I'm going to have to seriously re-consider my participation with my images on A.net.

Steve
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 21):

Seriously - I remember when I first saw that photo and thought it was amazing and it still is, but now if I saw it with them ads around I would just close it straight away.

If this is what Anet is going to do, it will go down the shitter - or another decent aviation site will start and it will attract all the customers away from here as they don't fill their pages with crap like that.

Demand media - you know adverts dont work well, not them types anyway on here - why not do what Johan was starting to do and use the Google adsense? atleast people didn't mind seeing that as much because it was relevant!

Like I care about looking at a "keep oceans clean" website if I'm looking at a picture of a plane (note I intentionally looked at the advert for the purpose of this, didn't "attract" me)

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:25 pm

pain in the ass, anywhere but beside the bloody photo, seriously, do these people think that guest actually click on these stupid ads? not to mention the fact that it changes the dimension of the page, never had the problem of having to scroll across the bottom of a 1024x683px photo until now.

[Edited 2007-11-04 14:27:37]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:45 pm

They keep giving us a sip of that koolaid...all that talk about "new improvements coming soon to make the site better" BLAH BLAH BLAH. Every tweak they have made to the site has been negative. Are they confusing improvements that will enhance the airliners.net experience for us with improvements that only benefit them, like revenue?! I'm thinking so!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
corey07850
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:15 pm

Demand Media - way to ruin the great work of the photographers here. I'm not a photographer but as a viewer, this is simply distasteful and detracts from the work. Look at the screenshot Photopilot posted... Is there really a need for 3 of the same banner in one picture?

It simply looks amateurish, but if this is the direction you want your investment to take, have fun
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:24 pm

One giant leap towards a garbage website!
Slower traffic, keep right
 
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scbriml
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:34 pm

This problem is now solved for First Class members.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:35 pm

For a long long time, photographer-uploaders and photo-viewers have had a free ride at a.net - no charges to upload, no onus on photographers to share revenue from commercial photo sales initiated through the site (other than print sales), no charges to view pictures. Quite simply, the model is not sustainable in the long term, particularly when the size and useage of a site extends beyond the resources of enthusiasts and moves into the commercial domain. Now that a.net/DM have real employees running it who need to be paid, where does a realistic and reliable revenue stream come from? Sure a.net doesn't look as good as it did, but where's the alternative - charge for photo uploads/hosting maybe, and how many photographers would bitch about that? Disgruntled photographers may move away, but sooner or later those other sites reach a critical mass where the same challenges that a.net is now addressing will face those sites too. We may now need to accept that the days of the free ride are coming to a close - whether the right solution is more ads, or subscription/hosting fees, or something else, is a more relevent debate.

A
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 20):
One giant leap towards a garbage website!

 checkmark 

This is just a lame attempt to make more cash with the site. They throw in more adds which generates more revenue, and at the same time are trying to "force" more of us into first class membership. What a joke, and just now when confidence was starting to rise again.
 
Psych
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:55 pm

Hello Andy.

Your points are very valid, and I welcome their addition to this debate. The issue of financing such a large venture is a taxing one.

But equally you could argue that not only have photographers had a' free ride'; so too has the site, being fed as it is by some of the world's best aviation photographers for free. These people have - in return for their free material - been provided with a quality, respected host. It is the classic 'symbiotic' relationship. That is the issue for me - hosting aviation photography. Now if the photos take second place to the ads that support the site's existence, then it seems to me we reach a point where that whole purpose is called into question.

A.net has prided itself on its high quality - in terms of photographic requirements, presentation etc. Screens such as those presented by Steve and me above just don't sit comfortably for me with anything to do with a quality product. That is fundamentally what distresses me about all this - it is so not what 'quality' looks like.

Paul
 
QantasA332
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:58 pm

This is not an annoyance, nor some unfortunate but inevitable development that we have to put up with. It's disgusting; a disgrace to the site and an insult to photographers.

Given the flashy, in-your-face-neon nature of most of the banner ads on here, surrounding photos with them is an absolutely absurd idea. When my photos are exhibited in "real" galleries, I expect their presentation to be "clean" and not detract from the photo. Certainly, if the gallery started posted advertising immediately surrounding photos I would remove the photos immediately. Like it or not, A.net has become a veritable virtual photo gallery, and the rules are no different.

DM - respect the photographers that make this site what it is and remove these ads.
 
QantasA332
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting Psych (Reply 24):
But equally you could argue that not only have photographers had a' free ride'; so too has the site, being fed as it is by some of the world's best aviation photographers for free. These people have - in return for their free material - been provided with a quality, respected host. It is the classic 'symbiotic' relationship.

 checkmark 

I'll say it again: the photographers make this site. Imagine what would happen if many people started pulling their photos?
 
diezel
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 23):
This is just a lame attempt to make more cash with the site

Off course it is, and right they are.

No offense to anyone in particular but I'm getting sick of all those, we know it better, DM is trash, it used to be better, and so on posters.

DM can do whatever they want to do with the site. It's their site. And Instead of bashing DM all the time, why not, for a change, give some positive response and maybe come up with some alternative ideas how they can make money on the site. Or put in other words: If it was your site what would you do?

For example: why not pay the $5 per month 1st class membership. It's not a big deal if you enjoy this site and hobby so much and it would make things better for everybody. After all, we all have to put some effort in keeping this site running. You can't expect DM to pay for exposing your pictures to the public without them getting something in return.


Just my 2 cents.

Roel.
Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
 
PhilGil
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:09 am

Wow, that's pretty bad. I've been using an ad blocker for years (I sleep just fine at night, thank you) so I had no idea. Just for reference, how many ads were there before the DM purchase? BTW, I took a look at a shot of mine on "Site J" with ad-blocking turned off and there were four banner ads: one between the site banner and the photo, one to the right of the photo, one between the photo and the description, and one below the description.

I don't have a clue how to make the site pay for itself without as many intrusive ads. Trying to "monetize" an enthusiast's site like a.net is going to be painful for all of us.
 
andrewuber
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 16):
I remember when I first saw that photo and thought it was amazing and it still is, but now if I saw it with them ads around I would just close it straight away.



Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 25):
This is not an annoyance, nor some unfortunate but inevitable development that we have to put up with. It's disgusting; a disgrace to the site and an insult to photographers.



Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 25):
DM - respect the photographers that make this site what it is and remove these ads.



Quoting QantasA332 (Reply 26):
the photographers make this site. Imagine what would happen if many people started pulling their photos?



Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
I'm getting sick of all those, we know it better, DM is trash, it used to be better, and so on posters.

See a trend here? I have yet to see a post that says "OH come on guys, it's just ads, there's nothing wrong with it". The photographers are speaking, and the message is clear. And mods - you've deleted my posts for referencing another site, but THAT NEEDS TO BE MENTIONED.

While I will stay within the limits and for the love of GOD not mention any competitors, I will say this - I do NOT want MY photos surrounded by this junk. This needs to be FIXED, and returned to the way airliners.net USED TO BE, or I will remove all 493 of my photos.

As a photographer who has generated close to 1.3 million hits for this site, I think my voice should be heard - as well as all the others on here (regardless of the size of their contribution). WE are what makes airliners.net the site it is, and these crap ads are embarassing.

It already pisses me off that I have to PAY to post on this forum, when I keep the lights on around here to begin with by providing the core material of the site, but I won't go into that right now.

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
viv
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:16 am

A regrettable development.

[Edited 2007-11-04 16:19:11]
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:19 am

Paul,

My comments weren't particularly indicative of my support for DM's new approach, but rather reflected what I believe may be the commercial reality of where a.net is now (whether we like it or not). I also accept that, without the quality photos and photographers, a.net would not be where it is now. However, the challenge remains - how are the resources (servers, infrastructure, staff, bandwidth, etc) that a.net now demands - and may increasingly demand in the future - to be paid for? Its easy to suggest that the photographers, or the viewers, or the forum users, or whoever, should get a free ride, but who does pay - any way we cut it, the money has to come from somewhere. For some time I've felt it was inevitable that a.net would have to become increasingly more commercial, particularly after the DM acquisition - indeed, that much became more apparent when I bumped into and talked to Paulo at the Reno Air Races a few weeks ago - but now the question in my mind is whether this is the right solution or not. Clearly it is not visually attractive at least for photographers and photo viewers, but is it the lesser of other evils?

A
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
For example: why not pay the $5 per month 1st class membership.

for example, why not just can the stupid ads that nobody clicks on, how many visitors do you actually think click on a bloody ad for a gummi bear ring tones? but putting them along side a photo is simply stupid...

Quote:
but sooner or later those other sites reach a critical mass where the same challenges that a.net is now addressing will face those sites too.

you assume that the other sites are for-sale or being operated for the purposes of revenue raising.

[Edited 2007-11-04 16:30:22]
 
D L X
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
And Instead of bashing DM all the time, why not, for a change, give some positive response and maybe come up with some alternative ideas how they can make money on the site.

This isn't about bashing DM, it's about the serious concern that I'm sure many photographers are having about continuing doing business with this site. The photographers own the blue chip that makes this site what it is.

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
You can't expect DM to pay for exposing your pictures to the public without them getting something in return.

But don't forget that as Psych said, DM is benefitting greatly by our having our photographs on their site. No one would click on these ads if not for our photographs.

Let's look at this in perspective:


The FOUR vertical banner ads take up 160 x 4 pixels, or 640 pixels in width. The medium photo is 640 pixels wide as well.
The FOUR vertical banner ads each are 600 pixels long. The medium photo is only 439 pixels long. That means that just taking into account the four vertical banner ads, there is 36% more of the page devoted to advertising than there is to the photo.

Add in the horizontal banner and the two google adsense banners, by my math, you get about TWICE as much screen space spent on advertising than on the photo.

Now, forget the fact that DM has the right to do that. Clearly they do. But as Chris Rock says, you can drive a car with your feet, but that doesn't make it a good idea! If you were looking at a website to showcase photographs, and that website had twice as much advertising space as it does photos, wouldn't you say their priorities are screwed up?

I would.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 31):
However, the challenge remains - how are the resources (servers, infrastructure, staff, bandwidth, etc) that a.net now demands - and may increasingly demand in the future - to be paid for?

I doubt that Johan ever operated this site at a loss. And to be quite frank (but hopefully not unnecessarily frank), it's not my problem if DM can't make money off this cash cow. It's my problem to decide whether or not I'll continue using the site, after being here for almost a decade.
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 32):
for example, why not just can the stupid ads that nobody clicks on, how many visitors do you actually think click on a bloody ad for a gummi bear ring tones? but putting them along side a photo is simply stupid...

How do you know no one clicks on them? Ultimately, it comes down to a return on investment decision on the part of the advertisers - if they don't get enough click throughs, they stop advertising. As yet, I don't see any shortage of advertisers on a.net

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 32):
you assume that the other sites are for-sale or being operated for the purposes of revenue raising.

No I don't, but sooner or later a site that grows gets to the point where it has to raise revenue to support its growth. Once that point is reached, either viewers or photographers or forum members have to pay one way or another, be it through membership fees, hosting fees, sales commissions, or advertising

A
 
D L X
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 34):
No I don't, but sooner or later a site that grows gets to the point where it has to raise revenue to support its growth. Once that point is reached, either viewers or photographers or forum members have to pay one way or another, be it through membership fees, hosting fees, sales commissions, or advertising

Even if this is true (let's say it is), that's not the complaint here. I'm personally not complaining that there are ads on the page. I'm complaining that MY photos are being surrounded and DWARFED by advertisements. They are loud, intrusive, and completely and utterly detract from the photo. I don't think you'll be able to find a photographer on this site that is okay with the placement of these ads.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:44 am

There are other ways to do it. Don't piss off your customers and contributors.

It's like they're trying to see how far they can push us.

Make them pay for NEW things. Things that are so awesome they'd line up at your doorstep begging you to take their money. Don't nickel and dime them. Is it that hard to understand?
From the Mind of Minolta
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 34):
How do you know no one clicks on them? Ultimately, it comes down to a return on investment decision on the part of the advertisers - if they don't get enough click throughs, they stop advertising. As yet, I don't see any shortage of advertisers on a.net

you don't find it a little invasive/annoying that they're beside the damn photos? I mean what is it that we're trying to promote here? the photo or the bloody advert? when was the last time a simple 1024x683 photo in the db ended up needing to be scrolled across the bottom in order to view the bloody thing? what's next, ads incorporated into our posts?

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 34):
ut sooner or later a site that grows gets to the point where it has to raise revenue to support its growth. Once that point is reached, either viewers or photographers or forum members have to pay one way or another, be it through membership fees, hosting fees, sales commissions, or advertising

we already pay..some pay $5 a month for 1st class, others $25 or whatever it is for their membership...If DM stretched itself financially then thats not our problem, our only issue is ensuring we submit photos that are acceptable and that they are shown in the best possible manner, to me that is without ads surrounding them which forces me to change how I view a standard photo in this db.
 
QantasA332
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
DM can do whatever they want to do with the site. It's their site. And Instead of bashing DM all the time, why not, for a change, give some positive response and maybe come up with some alternative ideas how they can make money on the site. Or put in other words: If it was your site what would you do?



Quoting PhilGil (Reply 28):
I don't have a clue how to make the site pay for itself without as many intrusive ads. Trying to "monetize" an enthusiast's site like a.net is going to be painful for all of us.

Plastering cheap banner ads onto every blank surface of the site is not the only way or, indeed, the best way to generate revenue. It's a cheap, unprofessional, and complacent solution. Think about it. This site has become so much more than a mere "enthusiast's site". It's by far the largest collection of aviation images anywhere. It's a database, akin to a stock photo resource. It's widely known throughout the aerospace and travel industries, and many customers from those industries come looking for photos for commercial use. Are you telling me that the richest assets this site has are ridiculous ads for ringtones or "free" phones, among others? I think not. If DM has any business sense, they'll be able to milk the renown of this site for all it's worth, with relevant business strategies and not these band-aid banner ads.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 31):
For some time I've felt it was inevitable that a.net would have to become increasingly more commercial, particularly after the DM acquisition

Of course, but "commercial" does not equate to cheap banner ads.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
Even if this is true (let's say it is), that's not the complaint here. I'm personally not complaining that there are ads on the page. I'm complaining that MY photos are being surrounded and DWARFED by advertisements. They are loud, intrusive, and completely and utterly detract from the photo. I don't think you'll be able to find a photographer on this site that is okay with the placement of these ads.

 checkmark 

Also, we uploaded our photos under the premise that they weren't going to be smothered in advertisements. After we agreed to let the site display our photographs without ads, how can Airliners.net continue to use our photos with ads? Is that even legal under the contract that we uploaded under?
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
photopilot
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:53 am

Here's my take on this. Let's state the basics first.

1) DM needs to generate revenue from this site. They wouldn't have bought it if it didn't fit into a business model of self-financing and revenue generating.

2) The Photographers provide the RAW MATERIAL used by DM to generate their revenue. Much like a newspaper or magazine, where advertising pays the freight for editorial space, but without the editorial content, nobody picks up, reads or even sees the ads. But the best newspapers, magazines clearly seperate ads from editorial content on the majority of their pages.

3) I belong to a strictly Photographers Critique Website thats sole purpose is to proudly display photography. They had a similar situation. Their solution was a "timed" ad that pops onto the screen PERIODICALLY and you can either wait the 15 seconds for it to pass and keep surfing, or find and click the close window to immediately proceed. But with this system of timed ad, when you are actually viewing the image, it is pure and undistracted!!!! That type of creative solution would work here and fulfill both DM's revenue needs, and the Photographer's Display Purity needs.

Let's think creatively but for gawd sake, get rid of the comic book color distractions from the images we so proudly take and post.

IMHO
thanks, Steve
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):
And Instead of bashing DM all the time, why not, for a change, give some positive response and maybe come up with some alternative ideas how they can make money on the site.

The t-shirt thread was a good idea before it got out of hand. I would buy airliners.net apparel if it was tastefully and smartly done.

Maybe tweeking the photo sales payout to pay more to DM and to the photographer. There have been several threads concerning the sales of photos and the paultry amount of money that goes to the photographer.

Other items like desk caleldars. How would you like to have a 12 month calendar containing 12 of you favorite photos from the site?
Slower traffic, keep right
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Viv (Reply 30):
A regrettable development.

.
Hmmm... I almost feel like I predicted this happening!

Here is a copy/past from Reply # 322 in the thread titled "Server Migration - Opinions/Thoughts/Concerns" in the Site Related forum:


----------- Begin copy / paste: -----------

Has anyone taken into consideration that the powers-that-be at the top of the DM food chain could quite possibly care less what anyone on this site thinks?



I have my thoughts that there are going to be some ugly (from the user's standpoint) changes to a.net coming soon... The amount of annoying advertisements is going to get much worse (look at MySpace!) and the concern for what the users want is going to get lower and lower. There is much more money to be made off of this site in advertising than there is from people. If web sites made big money off of the users, why in the HELL would MySpace be free to use?!?!

This site has had a history for years of sweeping things under the rug. If they don't like what you have to say about something, you get banned and/or the forum discussion disappears. How convenient. On that note - here's a thought: try listening to what people are saying and responding to them instead of tucking your tail between your legs and making the complaints and questions disappear.

----------- End copy / paste -----------


So sad.


Matt
(BNA)

--
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
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Bruce
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:12 am

I agree with everyone else. It is disgusting and totally disrupts the viewing enjoyment. Heck, on my monitor at 1024 wide I have to scroll to see half the photo now and its off center with the info box below.

If we protest hard enough they might listen. that's all I can think of.

Bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
mattbna
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 29):
It already pisses me off that I have to PAY to post on this forum, when I keep the lights on around here to begin with by providing the core material of the site, but I won't go into that right now.

I have had a free membership for years simply by having more than 100 photos here (I think that was how many it took)...

You don't have to pay for a membership to post in the forums, Andrew.


I've already started to upload all of the photos that I have here to another site that has always been much more photographer-friendly anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I will yank all of my photos as well. I agree that it is embarrassing to send a link to someone to look at one of my photos and the screen ends-up having more ads jumping up all over the place than it does aviation related content.

I will mention again that I covered all of this in the copy/paste text from another thread (posted above). How anyone EVER thought that airliners.net was going to be bought-out by a corporate behemoth and not turned into this I will NEVER understand!


Matt
(BNA)

--
Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
 
Psych
Topic Author
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:32 am

Many thanks to all for their contribution to this thread.

I shall try to break the habit of a lifetime and be brief. In my opinion this development may push more photographers away from A.net than anything else we have seen so far since the take-over. Surely no-one who cares about 'the photograph' could feel comfortable knowing the viewers of their work are seeing their photos in amongst this horrible environment on the page. It simply does not sit comfortably with a site which sets such high standards for photographers in the first place to have their images hosted here. A photographer is going to be far less prepared to ensure his/her photos meet the highest standards required when the site itself - which sets these standards - places such a low priority on how those photos are presented to the viewing population.

Forget for the purposes of this debate that First Class members can get rid of the ads, or software can do the same. My guess is that the majority of views come from non-members. Also the question of how DM fund things is not the primary problem for debate here (though I accept that is a real issue). It is to clarify that the photographer community believe this is not the way to do it.

Gone on too long again! I intend to write to Paulo to argue the case and want to know that I can legitimately represent the views of other colleagues.

All the best.

Paul
 
scottieprecord
Posts: 1208
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting Bruce (Reply 43):
If we protest hard enough they might listen. that's all I can think of.

We could call a boycott on photo uploads until this is taken care of. I think that's a reasonable protest, and it'd send a pretty clear message to DM.

-Mike
 
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jid
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:37 pm

RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Mattbna (Reply 44):
You don't have to pay for a membership to post in the forums, Andrew.

You might find that incorrect....

Quote:
If you are only interested in a username for the discussion forum and chat, we offer a less costly Premium Membership. This membership includes a username and posting access to all discussion forums and chat with no other benefits.

The cost is a one-time sum of $25 US dollars. After payment, the username will be yours indefinitely. The normal forum rules applies. "Indefinitely" can mean 20 years or two weeks, we give no guarantees.



Quote:
We also have a free membership for photographers uploading photos (no forum posting access) but it can also be used if you want to create a profile, create photo albums and use other features avaliable to our users. You can at any time upgrade your membership to First Class or Premium.
G7EPN is back after 15 years! Operating all Bands 80mtrs -> 70cms QRZ DX
 
KLM772ER
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 5:29 pm

RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Psych (Reply 24):
But equally you could argue that not only have photographers had a' free ride'; so too has the site, being fed as it is by some of the world's best aviation photographers for free. These people have - in return for their free material - been provided with a quality, respected host. It is the classic 'symbiotic' relationship.



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 29):
This needs to be FIXED, and returned to the way airliners.net USED TO BE, or I will remove all 493 of my photos.

That is the point! This Site lives from the visitors coming to see the photos. And it is not only the point that there are directly coming less visitors if the photos get blemished in such a way. It is mainly as Paul says, that many photographers will stop uploading and pull all their photos. And what is this site than?
Well if DM is a business company they should recognize this:

No photos -> No Visitors -> Nobody who clicks the ads -> no money -> bye bye Airliners.net!

That is the easy way it will go if continuing this way!

Quoting Diezel (Reply 27):

For example: why not pay the $5 per month 1st class membership. It's not a big deal if you enjoy this site and hobby so much and it would make things better for everybody.

So you see everything without banners. But Airliners has how many visitors a day? How many of them have a firstclass membership? 1% let it even be 2%. You know how many of those regular visitors that have no membership at all will stop coming here by being striked to dead with ads every time they come here? There is no fun at all looking at ads with a little website behind it.

The best prove for it I had last night. I sent a link to my parents of one of my photos. And talk to them over phone while they were opening it. And they were looking for the photo between the ads and it took them a while to realize the photo..
So this is the way you want to run the Site DM???

BTW how many of the "comercial" visitors that are looking for photos for advertisment etc. will still come here when they have to struggle through ads to find a photo...

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 40):
Their solution was a "timed" ad that pops onto the screen PERIODICALLY and you can either wait the 15 seconds for it to pass and keep surfing, or find and click the close window to immediately proceed. But with this system of timed ad, when you are actually viewing the image, it is pure and undistracted!!!! That type of creative solution would work here and fulfill both DM's revenue needs, and the Photographer's Display Purity needs.

It would still look cheap to me with ads poping up over my image.. The pleasure I had while I was a "normal" visitor before making my photos available for A.net was the chance to browse through all those fantastic photos without being irritated and nerved by advertisings! I would have stop visiting airliners very soon when I had seen it this way.. It wouldn't have been fun to me anymore...

The photographers are what make and made airliners to what it is right now. And to upset them is not they way. What will DM do with this site when they are gone? Take the photos on their own?

Hope this changes to something better again very soon!

Björn
 
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RE: Adverts Now Surround Photos

Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting Unattendedbag (Reply 41):
How would you like to have a 12 month calendar containing 12 of you favorite photos from the site?

Which of course can not be done without the explicit agreement of the photographers  Wink
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