boeingfreak
Posts: 381
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Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:54 pm

Hi all,
I just discovered (while looking for a christmas present for another aviation nut Wink) that Schuco airplane models uses airliners.net photos.

Have a look: http://www.schuco.de/uk/aviation/rtp/1,30/schabak_1600.htm

Also have a look at the other sections on the left side:

AVIATION 400

INFLIGHT 1:200

INFLIGHT 1:500

SCHABAK 1:250

Those are definitely airliners.net photos they are using and I fear they use them without permission as some of them still carry the watermark on it (copyrightbar is cut off)

If my suspicion is wrong then I'm terribly sorry for this post.

Florian  wave 
 
INNflight
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:35 am

Jet Visuals
 
boeingfreak
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:26 am



Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
WOW, and these are some ugly models

Yes, nothing beats Herpa!  Smile

BTW: I already talked to David Roura and Bob Garrard, David's image was used without permission and he already got in touch with them. Bob's image was used with permission, they owe him a couple of samples when the model is finally released.

Florian
 
Eduard
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:56 am

Ooooh !! They used my Swissair B.747 - 300 taken at BSL and they removed the tower in the background. The use of the photo in this way is unacceptable: no permission, no credit and altered .....

Otherwise Herpa was always correct: asked for permission, gave credit and offered samples.

Thank you for bringing this up.

Regards
Eduard
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ptrjong
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:13 pm



Quoting Eduard (Reply 3):
Herpa was always correct: asked for permission, gave credit and offered samples.

Herpa have indeed just asked permission to use one of my photos for use on a box, offering two examples of the model.

I want to ask money, though - this is very much a commercial venture, and I'm not much interested in models anyway. Anybody have an idea as to how much I should ask?

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
whisperjet
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:43 pm

Hi,

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 4):
Anybody have an idea as to how much I should ask?

There's is no need to ask them. They'll tell you that they are unable to pay for the pictures due to their current economic situation  crazy . That's at least what they told me when I asked them for money.

You can either accept the two models or there won't be a deal for you and they'll ask somebody else.

Imo it's not very fair to the photographers as the models don't cost them very much. A nice pictures influences some customers in their decision of buying the model or not...

Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 2):
Yes, nothing beats Herpa!

There are better ones than Herpa. Just remember some of the really nice models in the shop in MUC
 Wink

Regards
Stefan
Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
 
ZakHH
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:56 pm



Quoting Whisperjet (Reply 5):
Imo it's not very fair to the photographers as the models don't cost them very much.

Well, as long as they ask (and won't use the photo if the photographer rejects their offer), you can hardly call it unfair. Sure, I would also prefer if they paid good money, but if they get enough photos in exchange for model samples - good for them.

What is unfair is the unauthorized use of photo material. To those guys who are concerned here, please keep us posted.
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ptrjong
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:16 pm



Quoting Whisperjet (Reply 5):

Thanks for the information.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 6):
Well, as long as they ask (and won't use the photo if the photographer rejects their offer), you can hardly call it unfair.

I agree, I don't consider it a good deal but they're free to propose it.

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
whisperjet
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:05 pm

Hi,

maybe unfair wasn't the best word here  Confused .
But to me it seems as if they don't value the photographer's work.
They want the pictures as cheap as possible and they know that if the 1st person they ask rejects the offer, there are always other photographers who would give away their pictures for 1 model or even nothing than the name printed on the packing.

But it's a genral problem for not so special pictures. The market is just too big and many photographers give their pictures away for everything - or even nothing...

Regards
Stefan
Nobody is perfect - not even a perfect fool.
 
ZakHH
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:29 am



Quoting Whisperjet (Reply 8):

Well, that's economics in a nutshell. Trying to find the best balance between costs and benefits. If you can get the best pictures for $100, and the 2nd best for free, then the 2nd best is probably the best choice for the company.

The problem is not so much that the company does not value the photographer's work. It's more that many photographers will not value their own work, and give it away for free.

Then again, standards are different for hobbyists and (semi-) professionals. While the hobbyist is probably proud enough just to see his work being used on a professional product, this would destroy the market for the pro.

To a certain extent, you have the same in software development. Are you disrespecting the work of professionals when you use free open-source programs instead of proprietary ones? Are the developers of open-source software destroying the professional market?

Hard to judge. So as long as the companies act fair, it is alright with me. I'd say Herpa did, while Schuco didn't.
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ZakHH
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:35 am

Somebody at Schuco seems to be a big a.net fan. Check the homepage, http://www.schuco.de/
That snow looks bloody familiar to me...
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ilikeflight
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:52 pm



Quoting ZakHH (Reply 10):
That snow looks bloody familiar to me...

Maybe they asked DM for the snow
Think Different
 
INNflight
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:33 am



Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 11):
Quoting ZakHH (Reply 10):
That snow looks bloody familiar to me...


Maybe they asked DM for the snow

Nope, it's a free script which can be found on the internet, so any website can use it. DM does for free too, and Johan always did!

Florian
Jet Visuals
 
Eduard
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Images

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:07 pm



Quoting ZakHH (Reply 6):
What is unfair is the unauthorized use of photo material. To those guys who are concerned here, please keep us posted

In response to my mail I have got an apology and they removed the picture. For me now OK.

greetings
Eduard
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ZakHH
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RE: Schuco Airplane Models Uses Airliners.net Imag

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:04 pm



Quoting Eduard (Reply 13):
In response to my mail I have got an apology and they removed the picture. For me now OK.

I don't know - I mean, I respect that you accept their apology + removal of the picture.

But as I see from their site, numerous other a.net shots are still there. Unless they really have the authorization from the owners (which I doubt), it seems like they didn't get the big message.

It's a bit like stealing from many, and giving back only to those who complain.

I am no friend of unnecessary confrontation, and I'd always prefer a friendly mutual solution over a lawsuit. But I guess the folks at Schuco will have to learn the lesson somehow.

Here is a list with a.net pictures I found at schuco.de:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Abbott



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Davies - CYOW Airport Watch



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Krepp



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JetPix



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Roura - Iberian Spotters



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Garrard



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hristos Lachtaras



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Shull



There were a few more which I could not find here.

Maybe someone of the site administration can notify the photographers?
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