Apache
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Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:25 pm

Hello there,

I just got two shots rejected and I want to appeal, but I thought I'd ask for your thoughts first.

1. Reject reason: quality, oversharpened. Personally, I do not see a significant marks of being oversharpened and can't imagine what the quality issue is.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...ain?filename=20080102_IMG_0448.jpg

2. Reject reason: category, distance. Regarding distance I have to say that I did try to crop the shot bit more already but it looked so ugly that I kept it as you can see. Category I chose for this one is PROP as IMO this is single engine propeller aircraft although it has not fixed wings. I also searched DB for this type before upload and most of shots are PROP category.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...ain?filename=20080102_IMG_5273.jpg

Thanks for any comment.

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:41 pm

Pavel,

on your first one the quality issue may come from chromatic aberrations (fringing) at high contrast areas such as the nose of the aircraft which has a visible magenta aberration. Also the cockpit windows. As far as oversharpen... check the logo on the tail. Also where the stabilizer joins the tail.

What software do you use, out of curiosity? There are easy ways to eliminate these with the right package.

I can't help on the last one, that's for screeners to clear.  

[Edited 2008-01-02 11:09:54]
From the Mind of Minolta
 
ketko2
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:51 pm

The first one, I agree with Dvincent, you can see overhsharpening marks on the nose, and also the sky seems to be grainy to me... As for the second one, I think, it is too high in the frame, therefore there is a lot of space around...

Those are my 2 cents.

Regards, Keishi
 
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acontador
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:02 pm

Hi Pavel,

On the first one, Dan is pot on.
On the second one, you need to get rid of all that empty space front/back of the...hhmm...aircraft (?), and you need to select HELICOPTER instead of PROP, and additionally PRIVATE.

Hope it helps  Smile .
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:56 pm

Hi Dan,

you're right with chromatic aberration. I really missed it as the shot was made with older lens  banghead . Hopefully there is no need to correct chromatic aberration for shots I made with new one  Smile. So that means no-go for appeal to it. I did rework this one from a scratch; you can see the outcome here:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/IMG_0448-2.jpg

It should be OK by now I hope.

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Apache (Reply 4):
It should be OK by now I hope.

I still see the sharpening problems, though the CA is gone. You might want to try selective sharpening. What are you using to process your photos?
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Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:22 pm

Hello Andres,

On the second one, I can try to crop it more but as I wrote before I personally like it more this way.

Quoting Acontador (Reply 3):
On the second one, you need to get rid of all that empty space front/back of the...hhmm...aircraft (?), and you need to select HELICOPTER instead of PROP, and additionally PRIVATE.

If selecting HELICOPTER category is the way to make it accepted I will do so but this machine definitely is not a helicopter. Autogyro is a type of rotorcraft (a category of heavier-than-air flying machines) so helicopter is. Huge difference between these two types of rotorcraft is that autogyro is characterized by a free-spinning rotor in contrast to helicopter. That is the reason why I would not ever describe autogyro as helicopter.

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:37 pm



Quoting Dvincent (Reply 5):
I still see the sharpening problems, though the CA is gone. You might want to try selective sharpening. What are you using to process your photos?

Primary I use Adobe Lightroom and Neat Image. Where you think it is still oversharpened, pls? Maybe I need new display as I really can't find it now (or I am blind  Wow! ). Thanks

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting Apache (Reply 7):
Primary I use Adobe Lightroom and Neat Image. Where you think it is still oversharpened, pls? Maybe I need new display as I really can't find it now (or I am blind   ). Thanks

You're getting edge artifacts when exporting out of lightroom. It's most evident in high contrast borders, such as the border of the stabilizer to the wing. Notice there's extra dark halos surrounding the edges. It's because Lightroom's resize on export stinks (trust me, I dealt with this same issue). If you export full size from Lightroom and resize down in another application such as Photoshop CS3, you will get a much cleaner output. Here's an example of the problem. Complete with zoomed in samples.

Big version: Width: 793 Height: 266 File size: 80kb


Or compare these two images, one was downsized on export from Lightroom, the other was exported at full size, then downsampled in Photoshop and saved out.

http://homepage.mac.com/kefkafloyd/.Pictures/daigp_cs3.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/kefkafloyd/.Pictures/daigp_lr.jpg

Specifically, look at the horizontal stabilizer and the border between the tail and the sky. Or look at the engine nacelles. Or the titles. Anywhere that there is a high contrast border you will see strange doubling artifacts.

You will get a much cleaner result by exporting full size from Lightroom, downsampling to the final size, and then selective sharpening in Photoshop by using layers to scrub out over sharpened areas by erasing or using layer masks. Adobe has yet to fix this or at least give us an option to turn it off, which is highly irritating.
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acontador
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:57 pm

Hi Pavel,

Unfortunately, we don't have (yet) a special category for autogyroes, so for the time being they are categorized under the HELICOPTER umbrella, which kind of makes sense as they do not produce lift with wings but with a rotor, just like a helicopter, irrespectively if the rotor is motorized or not.
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:06 pm

Dan,

Thank you a lot for such a comprehensive suggestion. As I read what you wrote and as I look at shots you posted I am more and more confident that I can’t see the problem on the display I use. I have 19” CRT @ 1280x1024 and those pics of Lufthansa’s A340 seems pretty same to me.  

Regards,
Pavel

[Edited 2008-01-02 14:08:09]
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Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:16 pm

Hi Andres,

Quoting Acontador (Reply 9):
Unfortunately, we don't have (yet) a special category for autogyroes, so for the time being they are categorized under the HELICOPTER umbrella, which kind of makes sense as they do not produce lift with wings but with a rotor, just like a helicopter, irrespectively if the rotor is motorized or not.

I do understand it perfectly and have to respect it for sure. Please understand my previous post just as explanation why I did not use that category before. Please apologize me if it sound too offensive. BTW I already reworked it as you recommended and upload it to the queue. Thank you.

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/IMG_5273-2.jpg

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:20 pm

Quoting Apache (Reply 10):
Thank you a lot for such a comprehensive suggestion. As I read what you wrote and as I look at shots you posted I am more and more confident that I can’t see the problem on the display I use. I have 19” CRT @ 1280x1024 and those pics of Lufthansa’s A340 seems pretty same to me.  

Open them up in something that can zoom in to about 400% and you'll see the difference. It's less eminent on a CRT monitor than an LCD (my editing monitor is a CRT) but it's there. Here's my Lufthansa. Look at the edge between the tailfin and the background, or the horizontal stabilizer. You'll see the extra artifacts.



It gives it a ragged appearance that only gets exacerbated when you do your normal sharpening routines in PS. I had a lot of oversharps until I figured this out. Resizing algorithms play a big key in keeping detail preserved and LR's falls short. Which makes no sense since it's an adobe product.

[Edited 2008-01-02 14:23:29]
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Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:14 pm

Hi,

I did rework it one more time but as I do not own CS3 I have to try making a kind of miracle with LR. Please check the outcome here:

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/IMG_0448-2.jpg

I know it's not still perfect but best I can do now (much better than first I think). I'll keep this one in queue and will see.

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:19 am

Hello there,

I just got another shot rejected and I'd ask for your thoughts again.

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...ain?filename=20080104_IMG_1343.jpg

Shot rejected before due to dust spot I missed so I did rework & reupload. Now rejected with contrast, soft.

Any opinion and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Pavel
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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acontador
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:28 am

Hi Pavel,

It wasn't me this time  Wink ! This one has a bit too much contrast (look at the wheels, they are fully black as much as you cannot distinguish any detail, or the too white nose), and it needs a touch more sharpening in some areas (but watch out wing trailing edges and stabs leading edges, they are just about to become oversharpened).

Hope it helps  Smile .
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:19 am

Hi Andres,

may I kindly ask you to take a look at the re-edited shot, please?


http://www.volny.cz/paca/img_1343_2_copy.jpg

I did apply bit more sharpening and bit less contrast as you recommended. This shot was taken under very specific light conditions and you are definitely right about too white nose. But even less contrast will make picture IMO dull and no outstanding details will be visible on the landing gear after all scratchchin (as it's overshadowed by wings). This is one of my most favorite shots I made during my stay at Lanzarote so any advice how to make it accepted would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Pavel wave 
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
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acontador
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:06 pm

Hi Pavel,

Contrast is better, but it's still soft. I'd say a 100-200% 0.2 USM pass, and some careful erasing and then selective sharpening should do it. Just apply that and upload with a comment to then screeners on what you did to improve your first edit.

Good luck!
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
Apache
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:40 pm

Hi all,

I just want to render thanks to all of you who take patience with less experienced photo editors like me as your aid, advices and opinions help me to take a step forward in my post-processing skills. Specifically my thanks belongs to Andres Contador and Dan Vincent. And because one of the shots we were discussing in this thread before was just accepted I can celebrate achievement of 50th shot in the DB.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1314828/L/  yes 

PS I do promise that I will go to get CS3 next week to make my uploaded photos even better.

Regards,
Pavel wave 
I live the way I type - fast and with a lot of msitaeks.
 
LIPH
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RE: Opinions On Rejection Needed, Please

Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:01 am



Quoting Apache (Reply 18):
PS I do promise that I will go to get CS3 next week to make my uploaded photos even better.

 rotfl 
Don't mess around...We'll all keep an eye on you...!!  old 
Joking apart, good job and congrats... thumbsup 

Ciao
 wave 

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Post editing softwares are useful, but nothing else is more useful than a cristal clear pic directly from your camera...
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