JonathanJet
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Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:16 am

I spent December 31, 2007 at LAX. There were no clouds and a rather smogless day. But all the photos I have tried to upload are rejected for too dark or too light or the usual oversharpened. Any tips on what i might do before trying to upload these? Any help would be great!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/N644DLJJet.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/N785ANJJet.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/N374UAJJet.jpg


Thanks!

Jonathan Miller
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
abrevdo
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:27 am

No comments, I have the same problems too. I think your pics are perfect. I guess that screeners can find as many reasons to reject as they want. This is all can not be measured. Try more. May be one day it will get in. I also attempted Jetphotos and and planespotters. Some pictures rejected here was take over there. And backward.
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:05 am

Jonathan,
All 3 of these photos are oversharpened. The easiest way for me to point it out is the AA 777. If you look at the cheatlines in the middle, they are not straight, they look more like small stairs. This is an easy fix if you know how to work photoshop. How did you sharpen them? If you used USM what setting was it on?
-Matt

Quoting Abrevdo (Reply 1):
I guess that screeners can find as many reasons to reject as they want.

Yes, and generally accurate.

Quoting Abrevdo (Reply 1):
Try more.

I am not against trying more, but I also say LEARN MORE. There is a very steep learning curve here.

Quoting Abrevdo (Reply 1):
Some pictures rejected here was take over there.

No relevance at all. I am somewhat ashamed of my first uploads accepted at JP. It is not a bad site, just different standards.
-Matt
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:35 am

Jonathan,

Indeed these images are too sharp, resulting in jaggies. This is very noticeable on the titles, such as Delta and United. What editing program do you use? What tools and settings within the program? If you are using Photoshop Elements 3, I may be able to help.

Don't get discouraged!

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
JakTrax
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:39 am

The jaggies definately scream 'oversharpened'. But as for too dark/too light these photo's look fine to me. Good exposures, good contrast.

Karl
 
IL76
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:45 am

The Delta is blurry. No way to fix that unfortunately.

Ed
 
mnazarinia
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:32 am



Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 3):
Jonathan,

Indeed these images are too sharp, resulting in jaggies. This is very noticeable on the titles, such as Delta and United. What editing program do you use? What tools and settings within the program? If you are using Photoshop Elements 3, I may be able to help.

Don't get discouraged!

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,
I am using Photoshop CS2, which I suspect shouldn't be that different from Element. What I do is, I use USM. I duplicate the layer and then use normally only one pass of 180, 0.3 and 0. and that's it, after than I flatten the two layers.
I know this is not a good way of doing it. I have read some worksflows, but following those I cannot even make my images like the one that I normally follow. Any suggestions or tips?

Thanks,
Mehdi.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:30 am



Quoting Mnazarinia (Reply 6):
I duplicate the layer and then use normally only one pass of 180, 0.3 and 0. and that's it, after than I flatten the two layers.

I tend to think some have misunderstood the concept of sharpening in a layer.

The above mentioned technique gains absolutely nothing over sharpening the original layer.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
linco22
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:44 am

Hi Jonathan,

Welcome to the forum! The Delta 752 is blurry as is the United 73 around the nose. The AA 772 should be fixable with better sharpening. Not that I can give you solid advice as that's something I usually struggle with badly  Wink

So, rework the T7 and I can see that being accepted!

Regards

Colin
 
eadster
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:36 am

I agree, they are all a little too sharp. Scrap the first, its blurry and won't be able to be fixed no matter the work flow.

Quoting Mnazarinia (Reply 6):
I duplicate the layer and then use normally only one pass of 180, 0.3 and 0. and that's it, after than I flatten the two layers.

Sorry mate but you are just wasting your own time. What you've just explained, has no effect on an image at all!!!
 
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cpd
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 am

The idea of sharpening is to use multiple layers at different sharpness levels, each one tailored to a different part of the plane.

Some say you can erase out what you don't need (such as halos)- but you can also do the reverse and paint in the sharpness. Apply a layer-mask, fill it black, then paint in white on the layer mask with a soft brush at a medium opacity and flow to add sharpness as required. If you add too much, you can remove it with black.
 
viv
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:12 am

As others have pointed out, all of the shots are over-sharpened.

The first shot is perhaps a bit over-exposed.

You are getting there, keep trying.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
mnazarinia
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:55 pm



Quoting Eadster (Reply 9):
Sorry mate but you are just wasting your own time. What you've just explained, has no effect on an image at all!!!

So Martin, what is the best and efficient way of doing this? All my YMML photos in Anet has just been followed with what I said  Sad Can you just please explain more a bit.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:11 pm

Mehdi,

There is no point in creating a layer, sharpening then flattening.

To realise any benefit you create a layer, sharpen until you see evidence of oversharpening(jaggies etc) then either use the eraser to fade the sharpening or the more complex,but easy to use(yeah I know a tad paradoxical), method of hiding adjustments then painting them back again.

There is a great workflow linked in the photo upload page-
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/PsProc.pdf

and a similarly useful one from JeffM on layer sharpening that I can't locate right now(when is the team going to start that Masterclass, Action forum?)

Cheers

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
eadster
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:19 pm



Quoting Mnazarinia (Reply 12):
So Martin, what is the best and efficient way of doing this? All my YMML photos in Anet has just been followed with what I said Sad Can you just please explain more a bit.

My old photography mate, has beat me to it. There's no need to go that extra step if its not going to do any good. Follow what Chris has mentioned there, and you'll see how it goes. If you need further help or questions, let me know.
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:02 pm

Thanks for the replies! I am using Photoshop CS2 for the editing and using the workflow from Rocky Mountain Aviation Photos along with the A.net dust spot removal tips. The Delta and United look fine to me, but if it is blurry, then so be it. Thanks for the tip there. As for the American T7, I used a USM with a Threshold of 3 a ratio of 0.3 and a Amount of 150

Per the workflow..the first thing is too add 15% Saturation....Then crop...Fix dust spots and dodge and sharpen etc. Then resize the image to 1024 x 683 in my case. Then use the unsharp mask.

At the point where i reduce the size on the AA T7 it makes the cheatlines go jaggy. Not the sharpening. The only spot the sharpening really changes is the American titles and the windows and wheels.

I don't really know how the photos I do have on a.net made it, just lucky I guess. Is there a better way to edit photos?
(I will look at SteathZ link to a workflow)

Can the United be saved? Or is the blurry nose too much to fix?

Also, any photographers in the California area that I may be able to shoot with sometime to help learn?
I hope this post is not against the rules, as I saw others that were similar. May I keep asking for tips on photos or does that get annoying?

Thanks for the offer GPHOTO..I'll be glad for any help!
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
viv
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:40 pm



Quoting JonathanJet (Reply 15):
At the point where i reduce the size on the AA T7 it makes the cheatlines go jaggy.

Resize first, then sharpen!
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:32 pm

Just to clarify - I do reduce the size first. But when the size reduces the cheatlines become jaggy. Then I sharpen. So the jaggies are not from sharpening.
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
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dvincent
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:42 pm



Quoting JonathanJet (Reply 17):
Just to clarify - I do reduce the size first. But when the size reduces the cheatlines become jaggy. Then I sharpen. So the jaggies are not from sharpening.

What method are you using? I would recommend standard bicubic, not the bicubic sharpen (which says best for reductions but doesn't really give you any control).
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:10 pm

I tried to use the workflow above and have a question. What is the rubber that is used to erase the jaggies? I have CS2 not elements. Is it a different tool in Elements than CS2?
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:32 pm

Is this edit any better than the previous?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/Aircraft/IMG_3589.jpg


Jonathan
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:37 pm

That second AA edit looks a lot better to me. I live in SoCal and shoot often at LAX. I usually go on the weekends. If you're going why don't you message me and let me know. I don't know if I will be out this weekend but I will try.
-Matt
 
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dvincent
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:48 pm

The "rubber" is the eraser tool. It looks like an eraser and lives in the square below the clone stamp. It looks like you used the blur tool, which isn't what you wanted to do. It actually made it worse.

I suggest using the layer mask method. Select the sky with the magic wand, go to the menu and choose Select > Inverse, then choose Select > Modify > Expand, and enter 1 pixel. Then go to the layers palette, click your topmost layer, then press the Create Layer Mask button (white circle on top of black square in the bottom of the layers palette). This will make a mask that will show all the areas in white through. Apply your sharpening. Then select the pencil or brush tool and click on the mask. Then set the opacity of that tool to about 50%. Then start painting away the jagged edges by using that tool. Keep painting over them until you get the desired amount. If you used too much, just change to the eraser and wipe it away.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:41 pm

Thanks Dvincent! I didn't think that the blur was right, but I couldn't figure out the eraser. I'll do it again with your recommendation.

I live in Modesto, Ca. so SoCAL is out of the question as its 7+ hours away. If anyone is up here....SFO, SMF, MOD, OAK etc. I may be able to swing it on a weekend.

Thanks again for your tips!

Jon
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
mnazarinia
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:26 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 13):
Mehdi,

There is no point in creating a layer, sharpening then flattening.

To realise any benefit you create a layer, sharpen until you see evidence of oversharpening(jaggies etc) then either use the eraser to fade the sharpening or the more complex,but easy to use(yeah I know a tad paradoxical), method of hiding adjustments then painting them back again.

There is a great workflow linked in the photo upload page-
http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/PsProc.pdf

and a similarly useful one from JeffM on layer sharpening that I can't locate right now(when is the team going to start that Masterclass, Action forum?)

Cheers

Chris

Chris,
Thanks for all that. I have read the workflow before, but I think I need to learn more of PS (editing) rather than photography first. Thanks for that.

Quoting Eadster (Reply 14):
My old photography mate, has beat me to it. There's no need to go that extra step if its not going to do any good. Follow what Chris has mentioned there, and you'll see how it goes. If you need further help or questions, let me know.

Thanks for that let me give it a go and get back to you soon mate.

Also I thank other fellows for their great tips.

[Edited 2008-01-09 16:26:51]
 
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dvincent
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:06 am



Quoting JonathanJet (Reply 23):
Thanks Dvincent! I didn't think that the blur was right, but I couldn't figure out the eraser. I'll do it again with your recommendation.

I live in Modesto, Ca. so SoCAL is out of the question as its 7+ hours away. If anyone is up here....SFO, SMF, MOD, OAK etc. I may be able to swing it on a weekend.

If you're ever around BDL or BOS, send me a PM and I'll see if I can arrange a one on one.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:50 am

Here is another edit of the AA T7 using the above workflow. It now seems to me to be even more oversharpened than the first photo. I agree the second edit is no good. Do I need to do it with less sharpening? I erased the jaggies as best as I could. You can still see the stairsteps though. Would doing the picture at 1200 or 1600 be better? Would that save enough pixels to stop the stairs? Or do I really just not see what everyone is seeing?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/N785ANJJet1.jpg
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
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dvincent
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:10 am

Exactly how much sharpen did you apply to it? The image certainly looks of better quality but the overall amount of sharpen seems too much. What exactly is your amount setting? I tend to use 50/.2/5 (remove lens blur) in smart sharpen or USM (depends on the image really).
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:30 am

I couldn't make your way work...to tell the truth. By the time I get to the sharpening I only have 1 "background" layer. I can't add a layer mask to it.
I used the steps for sharpening in the above workflow.
1. Select the sky. Select inverse. Expand by 1 px. Then used the recommended 50%, R=0.3, Thres. 0
2. Create duplicate layer and expand selection by 1 px. Sharpen again. Expand by 1 px and sharpen again.
3. Erase jaggies with "rubber" Flatten. Save.

Can you explain your way a little more DVincent? To me a layer mask shows as a black box with a white aircraft shape in the layers palette. Doesn't affect the photo any. I can't sharpen it either.

Thanks for your replies!

Jon

P.S. I tried this on another jet and it seemed to work better. Maybe it is just the angle of that shot?
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
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dvincent
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:16 pm

You have to duplicate the layer... right click on the background and choose "duplicate layer." Then you have two layers. Make the mask on the top most layer. Then sharpen the top most layer. Leave the bottom one alone. Then click on the layer mask and start painting it.

The idea is that the mask will make the unsharpened areas (the black) show through.

Read this quick post about layer masks.

http://www.lunacore.com/photoshop/tutorials/tut003.htm
From the Mind of Minolta
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Discouraged: Prescreen Please?

Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:04 am

DVincent, are these better? I feel like I'm understanding the editing. I will upload some soon! Thanks!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/Aircraft/N369UAJJet.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/Aircraft/N644DLJJet2.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/JonathanJet/Aircraft/HL7715JJet.jpg

Jonathan
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!

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