metroliner
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Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:14 pm

Hey everybody,

Six shots for your pre-screening (dis?)pleasure from a recent shoot at LHR. Was freezing, but fun anyway...

Not too optimistic about the AA 777, but the others feel more or less 'right'. They have been carefully edited and selected from a batch of photos I took that day, and although they are not perfect, I feel at least a couple might make the grade. If that doesn't sound too optimistic/hubristically arrogant... 

Without further ado...

7T-VKB:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic0712297tvkb.jpg

CS-TNG:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229cstng.jpg

HB-IJM:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229hbijm.jpg

N750AN:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229n750an.jpg

VP-BRX:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229vpbrx.jpg

YU-ANF:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229yuanf.jpg

All your comments are very warmly appreciated indeed. I really wish to improve as much as possible in my airliner photography, so I am deeply thankful for any constructive criticism.  

All the best,

Toni

[Edited 2008-01-16 08:23:36]
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LIPH
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:23 pm

Toni,

1) Oversharpened, a lot of noise and a bit blurry in some areas.
2) Blurry and oversharpened
3) Blurry and oversharpened
4) Bad contrast, blurry and oversharpened
5) Blurry and oversharpened
6) Blurry and oversharpened

It looks like you use too much shadow/highlights tool too.

Just my  twocents 

Ciao
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:25 pm



Quoting LIPH (Reply 1):
It looks like you use too much shadow/highlights tool too.

Hi LIPH, I didn't use any shadow/highlight at all...

Sharpening was in the order of 50% to 75% USM radius 0.2-0.4.

Still, thank you.  Smile

Toni
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boeingfreak
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Upload them at a smaller size (1000, 1024), quality just isn't there for 1280pix.
Also be careful with your crop ratio, it should be 4:3 or 3:2 here on a.net, your's is off.

Florian
 
metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:00 pm

Hi Florian,

I'll try doing that before uploading. Current size is 1280x960 - that's exactly 4:3.

I'll re-process them and post again later - meanwhile, any futher opinions? I'm interested as to what people think of motive, colours and sharpness. I don't think I've overdone it, and the RAWs are all pretty much dead-on sharp - therefore anything smacking of blurry is down to my editing...

 Smile

Toni
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boeingfreak
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 4):
I'm interested as to what people think of motive, colours and sharpness

Hi Toni,
motive should be fine on all of them, the AA777 is a bit yellow for my taste, the other ones look good to me.
Sharpness... Well the originals seem to be pretty sharp but do the re-edits first, the above ones have no chance of getting accepted.

Cheers,
Florian  wave 
 
metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:51 pm

Yeah, the 777 is a bit yellowy... I'm going through them all from the RAWs now, so I'll be back in a little while.

Thanks again.  Smile

Toni
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:10 pm

They all suffer from a lot of grain.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:16 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 7):
They all suffer from a lot of grain.

Hi Silver1SWA,

Yep - just realised a terrible and silly flaw in my workflow that meant everything has needlessly come out twice as grainy as it needed to be... USM should be applied before resizing...

The re-worked images will be up soon - hopefully I won't have erred on the side of softness too much...

Toni  Smile
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 8):
Yep - just realised a terrible and silly flaw in my workflow that meant everything has needlessly come out twice as grainy as it needed to be... USM should be applied before resizing...

Hmm...I always sharpen after resizing.
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
Hmm...I always sharpen after resizing.

According to Jid's Workflow: http://www.jid.me.uk/workflow/

You're meant to do all your sharpening before resizing. PSCS2 also has the slightly annoying sharpening that occurs during resampling - if you equalise the image after that, you see slight haloes everywhere...

However, with the way the re-done batch are turning out, I feel as if an extra kick of USM after resizing wouldn't kill 'em. I'm relatively new to all this... I guess experimentation will prove the mixture...  Smile

Thanks for commenting.

Toni
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:29 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 10):
You're meant to do all your sharpening before resizing. PSCS2 also has the slightly annoying sharpening that occurs during resampling - if you equalise the image after that, you see slight haloes everywhere...

However, with the way the re-done batch are turning out, I feel as if an extra kick of USM after resizing wouldn't kill 'em. I'm relatively new to all this... I guess experimentation will prove the mixture...

Hmm, that is interesting. I might have to play around with that.

I am on my way out the door for work so I won't get to it later, but if you would like to send me one of the orginals, I could give it a try.
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:06 pm

Hey again,

Thanks for the offer - the originals are all tragically in the bloody Olympus Raw (.ORF) format. However, if you feel gutsy, I shall pick the best one out for you tomorrow - it's almost bedtime for me  Smile. Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated, and have a good day at work!

I've re-done five of them with a revised workflow. Hope they've improved:

7T-VKB:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic0712297tvkbv2.jpg

CS-TNG:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229cstngv2.jpg

HB-IJM:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229hbijmv2.jpg

VP-BRX:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229vpbrxv2.jpg

YU-ANF:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229yuanfv2.jpg

Any comments, again, are much appreciated. They're a little less sharp now, as LIPH suggested, and size is now 1024x768, as Boeingfreak advised, and grain has been attacked with Neat Image, as Silver1SWA mentioned. Truly a team effort - amazing! Big grin

All the best,

Toni
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LIPH
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:46 pm

Toni,
good job, even if in some parts they are a bit nosiy and slightly soft, Swiss and Aeroflot ones are the most promising as all the others seems to be suffering for some blurryness in the front part or in the back part of the fuse...Blurryness is something which you cannot really deal with...
Did you have a look at this ?

http://www.airliners.net/addphotos/PsProc.pdf

Best of luck

Ciao
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:15 am

Hey LIPH,

Thanks for your input! I'm going to put those in the queue and see what happens. The whole set is nothing too special, fairly ordinary, but I liked those two the best myself.

Quoting LIPH (Reply 13):
Did you have a look at this ?

I was using Jid's Workflow - http://www.jid.me.uk/workflow - with a couple of small adaptations. They do seem slightly soft-inclined, but better that than oversharpened, I guess.

Either way, it's been an enjoyable evening.  Smile

Cheers,

Toni
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dvincent
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:26 am



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 10):
You're meant to do all your sharpening before resizing. PSCS2 also has the slightly annoying sharpening that occurs during resampling - if you equalise the image after that, you see slight haloes everywhere...

That only happens if you use the bicubic sharper algorithm. Using the standard bicubic doesn't do that.
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Stealthz
Posts: 5546
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:59 am



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 10):
According to Jid's Workflow: http://www.jid.me.uk/workflow/

You're meant to do all your sharpening before resizing.

mmm, Hard to argue with Jid's workflow, it does seem to work for him but sharpening before other adjustments and especially before resizing seems to go against most everything I have learned about this post processing game.
When I get my primary screen back, although dubious, I will give it a try!

Cheers

Chris
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:20 pm

Hey again,

I've since pulled those two from the queue as I was dissatisfied with the overall quality - and, with the subsequent suggestions from DVincent and StealthZ I've made final revisions to the workflow combining Jid's and Fergul's methods slightly. Basically, there are now more passes of subtler USM throughout the workflow and resizing happened earlier in the process:

7T-KBV:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic0712297tvkbv3.jpg

HB-IJM:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229hbijmv3.jpg

LX-LGZ:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229lxlgz.jpg

VP-BRX:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/toni_tasic/ttasic071229vpbrxv3.jpg

This has become rather a long thread! However, it's been fantastic to have everyone inputting and helping out. I find the V3 images have really been worth the work - even if the subjects themselves are nothing to go crazy about.

I hope that, as per the discussion in the 'is this now just a pre-screening forum?' thread, everyone's all right with these revisions as they are contained within one thread only.  Smile

All the best,

Toni
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dvincent
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:33 pm

The Aeroflot one looks bad in the shadows, like the curves tool was used to brighten them up too much. The same goes for the Swissair and less so on the Air Algere.

Do you shoot in RAW or are you editing out of camera JPEGs?

The sharpening does look much better on them, though.
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:09 pm

Hi again Dvincent,

I used a touch of curves on all of them, however the underside wasn't in deep shadow in any case, so I tried to keep it very subtle and confined only to the shadows. I'm using Adobe Camera RAW to get Olympus .ORFs into PSCS3. The Aeroflot is the most difficult of the bunch in any case as the original is about half a stop underexposed, so it's marginal at best.

What do you reckon? Should I give the Luxair and Air Algerie a go?

Thanks again for your help and patience.  Smile

Toni
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dvincent
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:09 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 19):
I used a touch of curves on all of them, however the underside wasn't in deep shadow in any case, so I tried to keep it very subtle and confined only to the shadows. I'm using Adobe Camera RAW to get Olympus .ORFs into PSCS3. The Aeroflot is the most difficult of the bunch in any case as the original is about half a stop underexposed, so it's marginal at best.

You should use ACR's exposure tools to adjust it instead of the PS curves tool. You may be pushing it too much in this case.

The Swiss/Algere ones look saveable if you don't use the curves tool and instead use the fill light/exposure tools in ACR to adjust the exposure.

I would suggest looking into a book called Real World Camera RAW written by the late Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe.
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:10 pm

Thanks for the advice - I'll get on that.

What are your thoughts on the Luxair?

Cheers,

Toni
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LIPH
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:34 pm



Quoting Metroliner (Reply 21):
What are your thoughts on the Luxair?

That one looks fine to me. Just a bit of selective sharpening on the nose though....

Ciao
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:42 pm

Thank you  Smile Done and done - the revised SU and LX are going up now. Still reworking those Algerie, Swiss, Tap and JAT birds, but I shall see how these go first and I'll keep you all posted.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this forum rocks. Cannot thank you all enough!

All the best,

Toni
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metroliner
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RE: Pre-screening Please! Nothing Too Ambitious...

Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:39 pm

Just as an update, and by way of thanks to those who contributed, the Aeroflot and Luxair birds were accepted - thus raising my grand total of library hits to 4. Hooray! You helped really make my day!

I'm going to send the Air Algerie and Swiss birds off for screening next...

Cheers so much!

Toni

 

[Edited 2008-01-22 10:40:30] - And yes, I mixed up my codes earlier in the thread - I took LX to mean Luxair, but it's actually Swiss... what even IS the Luxair code?

[Edited 2008-01-22 10:46:31]
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