DeltaAVL
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Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:40 am

Hi guys,

I spent today messing with my new 400D, reading the manual, and getting myself acquainted with the Canon software. I shot a lot of photos in RAW today, and I was surprised at the amount of work involved in converting RAW files to jpegs.

My main question is this - is it really necessary that I shoot in RAW? What are the advantages? Would the largest jpeg straight out of the camera be just as good?


Thanks!  Smile
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
klintrepid
Posts: 121
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:00 am

In RAW you can change the white balance. You know if you leave the camera in florescent setting and shoot outdoors all of the pictures come out yellow. In RAW you could change that yellow color.
RAW is like a negative. Its all of the data. Whereas JPEG it is compressed.
~its a JEEP thang~
 
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dvincent
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:01 am

Michael Reichmann has a good guide you should read.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...rstanding-series/u-raw-files.shtml
From the Mind of Minolta
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:52 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
My main question is this - is it really necessary that I shoot in RAW? What are the advantages? Would the largest JPEG straight out of the camera be just as good?

Well, I don't know. When I got my 400D, I started shooting RAW + JPEG. I would only go out for a half hour or so at a time so it didn't matter to me that I could only get about 100 shots with my 2GB card. Because RAW just seemed like an extra step in my workflow, I started editing the large JPEG instead. I tried to make sure I got everything right in the camera so that I wouldn't need to use RAW and after a while I just set the camera on Large JPEG and forgot about RAW completely.

I have recently returned to shooting in RAW. I felt after having some surprising quality related rejections that I was better off having a RAW file to ensure I had the best quality possible and the option to fix some things that only RAW makes possible should I need to do so.

[Edited 2008-01-17 18:09:52]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:06 am



Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
My main question is this - is it really necessary that I shoot in RAW?

simple answer, No. Get your basic skills down, and you won't need it.
 
Fly747
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:10 am

It's not really necessary. It can help you save some shots but once you can nail your exposures, you don't need to shoot RAW. I only use RAW for night shooting.

Ivan
 
NIKV69
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:47 am



Quoting Klintrepid (Reply 1):
In RAW you can change the white balance. You know if you leave the camera in florescent setting and shoot outdoors all of the pictures come out yellow. In RAW you could change that yellow color.
RAW is like a negative. Its all of the data. Whereas JPEG it is compressed.

Yep when you shoot in jpeg the second you press the shutter file is compressed and your camera's settings are locked in.

Plus I also find the jpeg to be too rich in contrast and saturation. Why if you have the choice would you pick jpeg? RAW just gives you much more flexability. You can fix color casts, save a pic if you didn't nail the exposure, shadow's, highlights etc. With the emergence of ACR and the technology why not take advantage of it. I don't think it's a matter of skills either. I know plenty of "Skillfull" photogs that shoot in raw. Maybe because they have CS2?  Big grin
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:58 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Why if you have the choice would you pick jpeg?

In my case, I was choosing JPEG for the increased memory capacity and the faster burst mode capability. My 400D/memory card can't write as fast shooting RAW and after a series of photos the camera is disabled for a good 10-15 seconds. There are pros and cons for choosing each format. I find that with photography there are many, many trade-offs. Give up this or that, to gain this or that...quality vs...etc.

[Edited 2008-01-17 22:00:52]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CalgaryBill
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:16 am



Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
My main question is this - is it really necessary that I shoot in RAW?

Actually - YOU have to answer that question! What are you going to do with the images? If you're only going to upload to a.net or keep the pictures for yourself, then JPG is okay if your shooting skills are solid. But if you're going to do any really large printing (over 20x30 inches) or sell images to magazines and illustrators, then JPG won't cut it. Those sources will be looking for TIFF's with no compression, which you can convert from your RAW file.

B
 
JonathanJet
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:24 am

Do they make a plug-in for Photoshop CS? I currently edit my RAW's in the Digital Photo Professional that came with my Canon 30D. Does anyone have a workflow for a RAW like the JPEG workflows? I would love to understand RAW better!

JonathanJet
I'd rather be shooting in Hawaii!
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:45 pm

Thanks, guys, for the comments.

There seems to be a pretty evenly split opinion here, with good reasons for choosing each format. However, since I only have Photoshop CS, I think I'll be sticking with L JPEGs. For now, at least.

Quoting JonathanJet (Reply 9):
Do they make a plug-in for Photoshop CS?

From what I've read elsewhere, no, but maybe an A.netter has some sort of backdoor method.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
viv
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:49 pm



Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
is it really necessary that I shoot in RAW?

(1) Not if you know how to get the exposure correct out of the camera.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
What are the advantages?

(2) More ability to change exposqure parameters, such as white balance;
No loss of data so easier to make very big prints.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Thread starter):
Would the largest jpeg straight out of the camera be just as good?

(3) For uploading here, yes (subject to (1) above).
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
sulman
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:55 pm

The exposure evangelists will come out of the woodwork and tell you that you don't need it, but that's not the whole story. I do find the white balance and different sharpness settings very handy for playing around with. Yes it is more work, and still won't save a shitty image, but the control can be interesting. Simple stuff like playing with different picture style and saturation presets can get pleasing results.

J
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
linco22
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:03 pm

I think working with RAW will improve your understanding of the editing process more if nothing else. I have been shooting RAW alot recently but that's because I'm an editing freak at the minute! Big grin

In reality JPEG is more than enough for web usage. As Jeff (as much as it pains me to say it  Wink ) is correct, nail the basics such as exposure, focus, WB, composition etc and you're pretty much there.

Good luck

Colin
 
metroliner
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:04 pm



Quoting JonathanJet (Reply 9):
Do they make a plug-in for Photoshop CS?

Find and download Adobe Camera Raw - it's very good.  Smile

Toni
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
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dvincent
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:23 pm

I don't think it's as simple as boiling it down to "Don't bother with RAW because you need to get it right in the camera" because you still need to get your exposure right with RAWs in the first place. Yes, you get more latitude to work with, but the thing about shooting JPEGs is that you've basically committed yourself to the exposure at the time, letting the camera make decisions for you. I prefer having more control. That's all it is really - a preference.

For me, I'm fine with shooting JPEGs for family gatherings and "unimportant" things that I don't want to spend time post processing. I also really like the look of Minolta JPEGs and always have; their SLRs were very similar to their Point n shoots which were very good in terms of color rendition.

But for serious images, I prefer having more control over the process. I always liked developing my own B&W film (when I had the facilities to do so) which gave me a little more control in how I wanted to push the image. It was a powerful tool when I was first learning photography. Editing RAWs gives me a similar kind of control, both in determining tone and color. It also gives you more flexibility to remove flaws from the image, like sensor fringing and chromatic aberrations. Editing RAWs also gives you much more flexibility in noise reduction. Some converters are also excellent at extracting detail (see comparisons on DPReview for your particular camera for a good example).

Some people don't like needing to do the extra work on a RAW and would rather use the JPEG out of their camera. It's a choice you have to make.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
DeltaAVL
Topic Author
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:41 pm



Quoting Dvincent (Reply 15):
Some people don't like needing to do the extra work on a RAW and would rather use the JPEG out of their camera. It's a choice you have to make.

Okay, I guess I'm just gonna have to play around a little more and try to figure out which one's the best for me. The post-processing really wasn't all that labor-intensive, so I might just give RAW a go.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
lijk604
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:19 pm

A wise man once said to me, the only reason to shoot JPEG is when your memory cards are almost full.
I have seen a marketable difference in quality in my RAW conversions, vs. my JPEG captures.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:04 pm

At school events I shoot RAW and JPEG L. The fact is, these pics go into the yearbook. I need the extra control during post-processing, if the lighting changes dramatically and I don't have time to change the exposure I have to snap away and hope I get a good pic, if the colors/brightness is poor, I can brighten the RAW up to a decent exposure, then convert to jpeg and sharpen in PS. I also shoot RAW + JPEG at the airport, for basically the same reasons. Exposure may change or white balance may change too rapidly to change the exposure on the camera. For example if a cloud gets in the way the exact moment you hit the shutter release button, it's helpful to be able to change the wb in post-processing.

I'm getting to where I shoot RAW 90% of the time. For un-important stuff I just shoot JPEG.

-Matt
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
NIKV69
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RE: Shooting Raw - A Few Questions

Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:23 pm



Quoting Sulman (Reply 12):
The exposure evangelists

Priceless!

Quoting Dvincent (Reply 15):
I don't think it's as simple as boiling it down to "Don't bother with RAW because you need to get it right in the camera" because you still need to get your exposure right with RAWs in the first place. Yes, you get more latitude to work with, but the thing about shooting JPEGs is that you've basically committed yourself to the exposure at the time, letting the camera make decisions for you. I prefer having more control. That's all it is really - a preference.

Well said, people think you can just blow out pics and use ACR to make them look like spot on and I don't find that to be the case at all. You still need a good capture.

Quoting Lijk604 (Reply 17):
A wise man once said to me, the only reason to shoot JPEG is when your memory cards are almost full.

Omg John I laughed so hard I almost spit my food all over my laptop screen when I read this. Well shooting jpeg does have it's pros!  Big grin
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