Ander
Topic Author
Posts: 349
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Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:55 pm

...I hate to think there is no place here for a shot like this,

http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...me=20080207_tffid1lg1vit020506.jpg

Am I the only one to like this type of photo?

Cheers,

Ander
Born to tri.
 
flynavy
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:25 pm

I personally love it. Shame it didn't make it in. Motive rejection, I'm assuming?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Stil
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:38 pm

This one caught my eye due the out of focus wheel on the background. It gives some kind of airport atmosphere to the pic. I like it!!! And what's more... I've got a lot of them on my personal collection, but not sure if it's this website material.

Good luck with it.

Stil
....... Gueropppa! ......
 
spoogle
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting Ander (Thread starter):
I hate to think there is no place here for a shot like this

Personally i dont think this is the place  Sad

as much as i see its a good quality image it just does not do a thing for me !

Cant really see any motive .

Good luck anyway , i may be totally wrong .

regards
Its not what you have ... its how you use it :@)
 
KLM772ER
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:47 pm



Quoting Spoogle (Reply 3):
as much as i see its a good quality image it just does not do a thing for me !

 checkmark 

Normally I am a big fan of close up shots, but this particular one isn't very appealing to me..

What exactly do you want to show? I see some wheels cut in an arbitrary way, and a small gear block...

Björn
 
flynavy
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:00 pm



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 4):
What exactly do you want to show? I see some wheels cut in an arbitrary way, and a small gear block...

I also see "B-757" on the side of the tire. A matter of opinion, of course. I like his motive.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Ander
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:15 pm



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 4):
What exactly do you want to show?

We could ask the same question to thousands of photogs here and a large number would not find an answer, right?

Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 4):
I see some wheels cut in an arbitrary way, and a small gear block...

The beauty (of course only IMHO) of this shot is it's simplicity. It shows a B757 wheel (obviously) and is detailed enough to show the interaction between the wheel itself, the block and the ground. I could even imagine the forces acting between all of them. That's why I cut the wheel like that, because I don't need to show the whole wheel, as we all know how the rest of it looks like.
But it even shows more. It shows the opposite side wheel, out of focus giving a sense of the dimension of the airplane.
The markings, bolts etc add even more to it.

But as I said, it 's the simplicity of the photo what makes it appealing.

Of course this is only my personal opinion, and accept that many will not agree. Big grin

Cheers,

Ander
Born to tri.
 
timdegroot
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:16 pm

Hi Ander

I like your shots a lot but I have to say this one doesn't do it for me either. Nothing to really warrant that crop and nothing too spectacular about the whole thing...

Cheers
Tim
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whappeh
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:40 pm

I also really like this shot. I think it gives off that "at the airport" feel that is often missed by seeing whole aircraft with blue sky in the back that we get here often.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
KLM772ER
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:41 pm



Quoting Ander (Reply 6):
Of course this is only my personal opinion, and accept that many will not agree. Big grin

It would get very boring if we would all have the same taste  biggrin 

Quoting Ander (Reply 6):
That's why I cut the wheel like that, because I don't need to show the whole wheel, as we all know how the rest of it looks like.



Quoting Ander (Reply 6):
It shows the opposite side wheel, out of focus giving a sense of the dimension of the airplane.

You know since looking at the picture I am still thinking of it how it would look like with the complete gear included, do you have a version of it? I think it would even show the dimensions of the wheel and the plane better...

Cheers
Björn
 
JakTrax
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:56 pm



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 7):
Nothing to really warrant that crop and nothing too spectacular about the whole thing...

But that's just your opinion. I think it's a great crop and really wonder why A.net would not want this picture. Think about it - 'airliners.net'. Says it all to me. Should be about every aspect of aviation. It's a shame that, just because someone running the show here doesn't like that image, it isn't allowed a place on the site. What is this now? 'Blue sky and side-on Boeings.net?

 twocents 

Karl
 
klintrepid
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:24 pm

I like it a lot. I think it has good composition too.
~its a JEEP thang~
 
timdegroot
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:24 pm

My opinion and the rules of a.net are two different things Karl. The screeners are a collective and rules are made collectively, opinions of individuals screeners have to weighed against those of others. Sometimes I accept images I do not like personally, sometimes I have to reject those I do like. So just because you like this photo doesn't mean it should be accepted either Wink

In the end if the screeners decide an image is acceptable or not then yes that reflects our collective opinion. Fact is a.net is not a place for simply all aviation photos as you say. But you are well aware we are not blue sky boeing.net either.

The simple fact that the people on this forum have different opinions of Ander's photo reflects my point.

Tim
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Ander
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:43 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 10):
just because someone running the show here doesn't like that image, it isn't allowed a place on the site

Take it easy Karl. I'm sure we can achieve more if we discuss things in a polite way.
My opinion is that my shot is much more aviation related than a lavatory, a galley or a seat.
Motiv is a very generic and subjective term. To me the shot is perfectly valid, but unfortunately I don't set the rules here.
So for now, all we can do is post our photos for creative discussion.

Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 9):
You know since looking at the picture I am still thinking of it how it would look like with the complete gear included, do you have a version of it?

Yes Björn, I do have several photos some including the whole boogie. But this one is the only one I like that shows the three elements I wanted in the photo (wheel, block and pavement)

Regards,

Ander
Born to tri.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:11 am



Quoting Ander (Thread starter):
...I hate to think there is no place here for a shot like this,

..I would hate to think we are going to start seeing pictures of chocked tires. I agree with the others, zero interest.
 
Ander
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am



Quoting JeffM (Reply 14):
..I would hate to think we are going to start seeing pictures of chocked tires

You're right Jeff, a close up of a passenger PTV screen for instance, is much more appealing....
Born to tri.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:34 am



Quoting Ander (Reply 15):
You're right Jeff, a close up of a passenger PTV screen for instance, is much more appealing....

I never said anything about that kind of photo...... but I would group it with tire pictures.
 
KLM772ER
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:27 am



Quoting Ander (Reply 13):
My opinion is that my shot is much more aviation related than a lavatory, a galley or a seat.

 checkmark  For us (you and me, and probably plenty others here) that is much more "aviation" than any interior shot..
On the other hand there are probably plenty of people visiting this site which are "only" flying from a to b and want to see how the planes inside look like and what they can expect! They are not interested in tyres, gears, for them aviation is something complete different...

Quoting Ander (Reply 13):
But this one is the only one I like that shows the three elements I wanted in the photo (wheel, block and pavement)

Than definately keep it this way, the worst thing you can do is change something when it is against your conviction!

Cheers
Björn
 
eadster
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:14 am



Quoting Ander (Reply 15):
You're right Jeff, a close up of a passenger PTV screen for instance, is much more appealing....

Nope they are just as boring. Same as a chocked airliner wheel.

Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 9):
It would get very boring if we would all have the same taste

Very true!
 
sulman
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:31 am

I like the composition; if one looks at it in terms of shape and placement, it's a good photo. To put it another way, if I wanted to look at wheel assemblies, this is how I'd want them photographed. However, people look for different things in images, and I can see the argument for it not being on the site.

That a well thought out shot of a tyre doesn't make it, and a dull picture of a cabin, PTV, or even toilet does is just one of the things that you learn to live with here.

On another note, is there not another Spanish bloke at ATI that does lots of this stuff? Can't remember his name. Found him on Pbase. Excellent gallery.


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:19 am



Quoting JeffM (Reply 14):
I agree with the others, zero interest.

Again, just an opinion. No-one can say with any certainty that this is a bad/boring image. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd definately rather look at something like this than the bog in the Saudi King's private 747.....

Karl
 
linco22
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:41 am

Karl, I agree. I mean how many times do you see that blue sky boeing or airbus that's on the database. If I seen a close up of an engine, or tail, or gear, i'd give that a click first.

Okay so I think the image is poorly cropped, but it's a bit of a break from the norm.

Regards

Colin
 
Psych
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:08 pm

Great to see a debate like this on the Forum - far too little of this kind of discussion these days

I have to hold my hand up here and say I am a real fan of Ander's images - including the ones I have seen that have not made it on to the site. I am in the camp here who would far rather click on an aviation image such as this than the dreaded First Class seats etc. But I have learned those kind of seat/internal cabin shots are of interest to many people - just not me. Maybe if I was fortunate enough to be flying in the First Class cabin of an A380 I would then want to see one of these kind of photos, and thus would be glad that A.net hosted them. But as I am now, more 'photographically artistic' (if you will allow me to use that phrase) images will get my mouse moving.

There is something about aviation in this photo from Ander. As a layperson with an interest in aviation I know what my car tyre looks like at close quarters, but have no experience up close with a jet's tyre. Plus I see the motive Ander was suggesting with the chock - and the crop does not offend me because I like the distant wheel in the background.

The bottom line is that I admire people uploading this kind of photo and 'asking the question' whether a shot is acceptable, rather than assuming it won't be. If only that damned acceptance ratio issue did not effectively punish such 'thinking outside the box'. We need creativity or things will be static.

Thanks for showing us Ander.

Paul
 
timdegroot
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:10 pm

I'd like to chime in here one more time. We shouldn't make it look like we do not accept any gear/wheel shots because we do. We tend to go for more conventional crops, not to say that those are not fantastic images, a good example:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dirk-Jan Kraan



Tim
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JakTrax
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:34 pm

What really is the difference between the two images though? In my opinion Tim the one you link to is the more boring. I think the 'out-of-the-box' thinking should be applauded, as well as rewarded (by acceptance).

In reference to Paul's post, yes, there are far too many 'blue sky and Boeing' shots, and that's actually my shot preference, although many will not like them. No, they aren't creative but they certainly aren't any less intriguing and are generally not, contrary to popular belief, any easier to capture than more creative images.

Each to their own, but I think this discussion should highlight the fact that many here would enjoy looking at shots such as Ander's. If people like looking at such images and if there's absolutely nothing wrong with them (I've heard 'bad crop' here - personal preference, who's qualified to say that?) then there should be a place waiting here (IMO). To me an aircraft toilet isn't really about aviation - it's essentially photographing a public loo, and I doubt many of us here would want to do that!

Karl
 
timdegroot
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:46 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 24):
Each to their own, but I think this discussion should highlight the fact that many here would enjoy looking at shots such as Ander's.

And many others wouldn't. A.net will always have its preference as will individuals. To me Dirk-Jan's image is much better than Ander's. That doesn't mean Ander's is a bad picture, I can understand others will like it better.

I don't liek blue sky approachshots either but that doesn't mean they should not be accepted here. And I like flight attendants posing in front of aircraft too but a.net has chosen not to accept those either even though many people may want to see them. You don't like cabin images but many others do, and we've chosen to accept them. If we'd just let anything in we'd have no motive rejection either. And althoguh that may sound like a good idea to soem that's just not the way it is. We are just not a free for all.

We should all respect eachothers opinions and those of a.net. That's not to say there's no room for discussion because I'm happy to engage in it. However there comes a time when I can say no more on the subject. You can say 10 more times that you like Ander's shot and it should be accepted but I made my point. No disrespect to you but we might be heading into an endless discussion here.

Tim
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JakTrax
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:09 pm

I agree Tim, each to their own. I personally think A.net should be a little more flexible but that's obviously not down to you.

I would like to quote you on the following though.....

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 25):
And many others wouldn't.

True, but similarly many others don't want to see aircraft toilets. Cockpits, certainly; cabins? I don't like them but I can see how some find interest in them. But toilets? You wouldn't go out and photograph the public loo in your town centre. It's only a matter of time before people start sending in shots of overhead stowage bins, which would get really boring. In my opinion just because something is photographed IN an aircraft doesn't mean it's aviation related. A pic of a half-naked cabin attendant (if they were allowed) in the aisle would be equally at home on a soft porn site.

I'm not fuelling an argument here, and I don't necessarily agree with my point, but it's there to be made.

Karl
 
Ander
Topic Author
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 23):
We tend to go for more conventional crops

Agree on that Tim.

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 23):
a good example:

IMHO a lot of clutter behind, thus the essence of the photo is spoiled by the background. In my photo I wanted to isolate any distraction from the main subject. My point here is that there is a reason for the crop, it was not accidental.

I want to thank all who gave their opinion. As a conclussion I would say many did not like the photo and many did like it.
But Anet did not like it ( well, at least a first screener gave it a go  Wink ) so not much more we can say here.

Tim, hope you don't mind me uploading and posting my motiv rejections for discussion here. Big grin

Cheers,

Ander
Born to tri.
 
timdegroot
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:10 pm

About the toilets, we are rejecting many for motive and we've only let a hdn

Quoting Ander (Reply 27):
Tim, hope you don't mind me uploading and posting my motiv rejections for discussion here.

Of course not, I'm happy to discuss and explain as long as we keep it respectful.

Tim
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Psych
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting Ander (Reply 27):
Tim, hope you don't mind me uploading and posting my motiv rejections for discussion here.



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 28):
Of course not, I'm happy to discuss and explain as long as we keep it respectful.

Good for you Tim.

Can I just take the opportunity to raise one more point:

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 25):
A.net will always have its preference

In the 'old' days I would have understood this to mean Johan. Effectively he set the rules for what was acceptable and the screening team put those rules into practice with their decision making. Now who sets/reviews the rules? Does this privilege lie with the Head Screeners, the screening team, DM, a combination of these etc? I mention this because I think it is important 'A.net', whoever that is, is seen to be flexible and receptive to constructive arguments and discussion.

I think many of us hold dear A.net's attempts to maintain the highest standards for uploads, but I look forward to further constructive debates about issues such as motive. A good example was another of Ander's rejected shots - the close up of the throttles on the flightdeck - which I thought was a superb aviation photograph. I was disappointed that A.net did not consider this an acceptable motive and I would like to think the door was not closed on future debates about changing/expanding the horizons for what is and is not acceptable for the site.

All the best.

Paul
 
eadster
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RE: Somehow I Knew It, But.....

Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:01 pm

I was happy with this one, which maybe an example of how to make a landing gear a little more interesting??


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Martin Eadie



It was fairly easy as its in a museum whereas the shot in question was not. But still, might be a good example.

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