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ptrjong
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Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:03 pm

Hi all,

The page containing the new Terms of Use now starts with the following phrase:


Effective Date: February 8th, 2008


WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK AND HAVE DECIDED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW POLICIES FOR PRE-EXISTING USERS. WE WILL REVISE THE POLICIES TO ADDRESS ALL OF THE CONCERNS WE HAVE RECEIVED. THIS IS A PROCESS OF COLLABORATIVE RULE-SETTING. WE LISTEN TO OUR MEMBERS AND WILL ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS.

Only a 'postponing the implementation for pre-existing users' is not what we want, of course. This could mean anything.
Interestingly, no apology.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
codeshare
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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:06 pm

Not surprised, but at least something will be done about it. I can't wait for the new proposals.

KS/codeshare
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
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eksath
Crew
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:06 pm

I am not uploading anything more until this mess is finalized PERIOD.

Thanks for the update Peter!

Suresh
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
spencer
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:07 pm

So no 8th March deadline anymore then, at least that's a start. But like you said Pete, no apology.....
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
viv
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:08 pm

Well, fine as far as it goes, but the terms of use have not been changed.

They also include the following;

BY USING THE SERVICE, YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS, DO NOT USE THE SERVICE.

So things are still very unclear.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
Kukkudrill
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:43 pm

Why only for pre-existing users? Do DM still plan to subject new users to the new terms of use? I don't like this. Hopefully things will get sorted out this coming week so I won't comment further. But I hope DM are aware that they have lost photographers' trust and that they have to be fully open and transparent with photographers if they want to win it back.

Charles
Make the most of the available light ... a lesson of photography that applies to life
 
JeffM
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:48 pm

If they really meant it, they would have changed them, not just add that silly blurb.....
 
aloges
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:56 pm

It's a small first step in the right direction. No one should be happy with it, but the 8 March deadline is dead and that's an improvement.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
jetmatt777
Crew
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:09 pm



Quoting Terms:
WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK

You don't have to work at Jiffy Lube to figure that out.

It's not that hard to write up 3 new paragraphs. All you have to do is say that the photographer own the copyright, and his pictures may be used in Airliners.net publications at his concent/discretion with some sort of payment, wether FC credits or PayPal money, or cash. And that DM can link to the photo either with an image thumbnail link, or text link, and the photographer will still get credit. DM may use it in an Airliners.net or MyAviation.net ad, with concent of the photgrapher, and if the photographer says no, you don't use the pic.
You pay a legal team what a 14 year old can do? Is that where all this money goes to? Johan wasn't a lawyer or in a law school (IIRC), he wrote up a good ToU that everyone agrees to, but a full paid legal team can't make one up that not even 1 single photographer agrees to?

And make it clear where we and everyone else knows what it is stating, not some legal language, that only 350 dollar an hour lawyers can interpret.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:18 pm



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
Johan wasn't a lawyer or in a law school (IIRC), he wrote up a good ToU that everyone agrees to, but a full paid legal team can't make one up that not even 1 single photographer agrees to?

Could that be because Johan wasn't trying to 'stitch us up'  Yeah sure I really do not like the new conditions, my pictures on both sites will be going if the rights of the photographer are not upheld, what DM appear to be doing is nothing short of robbery.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:00 pm



Quoting JeffM (Reply 6):

They've restored the old Terms now:
Airliners.net respects the copyrights and other intellectual property rights of others  rotfl 
But the silly blurb is still worrying.

I thought a fresh thread would be a good idea, but people haven chosen to continue to post in the old one, so this one has become pointless. I'll not ask that it be removed or locked, because that might reek of censorship. However, it's probably better to post in the other thread: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers (by Flynavy Feb 8 2008 in Aviation Photography)

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
MidEx216
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:54 am

Good news. There would be a void without A.net

Quoting Eksath (Reply 2):
I am not uploading anything more until this mess is finalized PERIOD.

Same here, but if it doesn't change promptly, I still may pull.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:12 am



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 10):
They've restored the old Terms now

But for how long? That's the question, along with the one about whether the old TOU will retroactively apply for signups on and after February 8th, because judging for the note, it only applies to those who registered before February 8th.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:10 am



Quoting Ptrjong (Thread starter):

WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK AND HAVE DECIDED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW POLICIES FOR PRE-EXISTING USERS.

just as I thought, this whole process was DM testing the waters and the limits of the photographers that make this site the db that it is.
 
timdegroot
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:44 am

There's no way old photogs will keep their rights and new signups won't. Everone has to keep their rights and they will. Otherwise we'd never get any new photogs.

Let's see this for what it is, a step in the right direction. Yes, several things still unclear but I'm sure everything will be taken care of soon.

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
paulc
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:17 am

sorry guys but the whole set up stinks - DM are really pushing their luck with the members of this site and it will / has rebounded big time. It took Johan years to build up the site to a level that other non aviation companies would be interested in buying. Unfortunately DM have undone most of that hard work with all the recent problems and the attempt to get control of all the photographs is beyond belief. Yes they are having to backpedal fast but it is too late, the damage to the site's reputation has been done and trust from photographers has been lost. If they can try this now what is to stop them trying the same in the future despite Paulo's words.
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:40 am



Quoting Paulc (Reply 15):
If they can try this now what is to stop them trying the same in the future despite Paulo's words.

Well, our answer will be the same every time until common sense prevails at DM HQ. If they want a thviving website, they gotta respect photographers' rights. Easy.
I'm not giving up on a.net yet.  box 
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
viv
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:56 am



Quoting Paulc (Reply 15):
Unfortunately DM have undone most of that hard work with all the recent problems and the attempt to get control of all the photographs is beyond belief. Yes they are having to backpedal fast but it is too late, the damage to the site's reputation has been done and trust from photographers has been lost.

I fully agree. I will pay no attention to soothing words from DM, but will reserve judgement until any new ToU are presented in the future. Talk is cheap, but legal texts matter.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
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FYODOR
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RE: Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users'

Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:22 pm

I think it would be a great deal if DM will exclude the page with the 'New terms' from the site until the new 'New terms' will be presented. Still presenting it makes people nervous - if they are skipped - what for are they?

Regards,

Fyodor

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