ua935
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Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:58 pm

As the title asks "Have quality rejections increased" and I am talking post screeners all using the same monitor and quality rejections associated with grain/noise.

If I remeber correctly Demand Media provided you all with Dell 22" widescreen monitors for screening, right?

The Dell 22" LCD uses a TN panel.

With LCD's there are three panel types:-

TN - bottom of the line intended for gaming, fast response time but grainy images

S-PVA - Middle of the road, general use panel

S-IPS - The best you can get LCD wise and intended for photographic and graphic applications, the nearest to a CRT.

I ask because I have an S-IPS panel in my screen which I use for editing (NEC 2090UXI) and a 19" TN (Samsung 931C) which I use for my pallets etc.

If I look at even ISO 50 or 100 images on my TN panel they look grainy but on the S-IPS panel or my CRT they are smooth as a babies bottom!

So have qulaity rejections increased since using your new monitors and if an image is appealed what do the head screeners do then?

Are you all using your new monitors or do you have higher spec LCD's or CRT's which you can fall back on?

Regards

UA935
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:50 pm

Well, I know the quality rejection increased on my side of things.
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jid
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:14 pm

I have certainly had a lot more rejections just lately. A lot of soft rejections which I just don't see on my monitor.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:06 pm

I would be interested to know the model number of the Dell monitors the Screeners are using. As UAL935 notes, they do vary considerably in terms of quality. Some of the Dell flat screens are not good for colour correction, e.g. the standard monitors which come part of a bundle, whereas other models are.
 
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rg828
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
Well, I know the quality rejection increased on my side of things.



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
I have certainly had a lot more rejections just lately. A lot of soft rejections which I just don't see on my monitor.

Ditto over here. Since there are so few additions to the database, it seems its just one screener doing the screening - and rejecting.

I get discouraged because I now use a Dell 20" 2007WFP (S-IPS) - a vast improvement over my previous monitor - yet my acceptance ratio is worse than ever before.
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spoogle
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:38 am



Quoting Jid (Reply 2):
I have certainly had a lot more rejections just lately. A lot of soft rejections which I just don't see on my monitor

Its a valid comment tbh ..

With all the screeners now on LCD's they all see the same image you'd think .. now this gives them a bonus i guess in the screening as it shouldn't differ between them all what they are seeing .... however ... i have let it be known in the past that I'm simply not a fan of LCD screens as they do not offer the same quality image as good ole tube .. FACT !

So.... maybe its a pointer in the direction we should go , do we all start using LCD's ? or ... does the appeal queue get bigger ?

Its a tough call really .. we cant start pulling the screeners apart for the decisions they are making as they are only accepting / rejecting as they see it !

This thread is going to be watched very closely by me at least , if i were to change to LCD in fact if anyone is to change it provides a very different viewing ... i know from using these in the past ... they simply cannot beat a tube .

regards
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jetmatt777
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:17 am

This is very interesting, I would like to know. Also, I see a bunch of threads here, with people getting many contrast rejections in batches.

My quality and contrast rejections have soared lately, but, my photos generally lack quality, according to the screeners  Wink

Must be all my cheap lenses.  Wink

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SNATH
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:45 am



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
Well, I know the quality rejection increased on my side of things.

Ditto here.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
Must be all my cheap lenses.

I shoot with L lenses and I have the same problem. All the sharpening and dealing with jaggies is getting really old...

Tony
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SkyWestFan
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:13 am

I haven't had a photo accepted for longer than I can remember.


I have been wondering (without starting a pi$$ing match) if the number of shots ALREADY added to the database helps with the acceptance process. It seems that many photos "sneak" by with questionable quality as so long as the photographer has 1,000plus photos in the db.

I'm sure that many of us attempt to capture moments under difficult conditions and of subjects at unique angles (non sunny day, non profile shots). I have certainly been impressed with the increase of artistic shots being accepted however when I see a run of 50 or 75 or 100 shots added in one batch; these aviation snap shot takers, I mean photographers really discourages me. Fantastic or rare moments with hopes of being shared with thousands take a back seat to ones where bulk is the goal.

I just figured I would voice my concern. Is anyone else sharing my opinion or is my decreased abilities as a photographer to blame for the hundreds of rejections....?


Cheers,
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cpd
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:39 am

I also wonder if the screens are really up to scratch. Shouldn't the screeners have nothing less than mid-range Eizo screens (arguably the best available).

I have a SIPS panel screen (Apple), and a large amount of the photos that I see accepted on this site look over-sharpened on my screen. So if I do something to look good on my screen, it gets a soft rejection.

I do have a 17" Sony CRT sitting in another room which I probably should use to verify things. Although it is old, it is still a fine monitor.
 
Barbro
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:19 am

Interesting. I just had my first "grainy" rejection for a loooooong time a couple of months back.
Otherwise, my percentage is the same it's always been, but I haven't been uploading that much lately.

I've been wondering about the oversharpening also, a lot of pics look oversharpened on my scrn, and my most common rejection is soft. So I've been trying to "overdo" it lately. Sometimes helps, sometimes not.
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spoogle
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:44 am



Quoting SkyWestFan (Reply 8):
I have certainly been impressed with the increase of artistic shots being accepted however when I see a run of 50 or 75 or 100 shots added in one batch

Accepted appeals perhaps ?
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timdegroot
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:07 am

Hi Guys

Us getting new screens was certainly going to change something I won't deny that. Any change of screen will have people see different things. We also realized that there would be a transition period where people had to adapt to the new screens in their own editing. The important thing is though that all screeners are now seeing the same things (at least to a much higher degree than before) and consitency - which had always been a major issue- has improved and is still improving.

We've been having discussions internally that confirm the contrast issues and we have been working on it, not being as strict rejecting them. But it's not a one week process.

The TFT vs CRT debate isn't over but we'll never be on the right side of it as screeners. before we used to get tons of coments on why we were screening on CRTs while the "whole world" was on TFTs. We had to make a choice when picking the new screens.

If you disagree you always have the option of appealing, don't be afraid to use it. Headscreeners are on I-IPS panels.

Quoting SkyWestFan (Reply 8):
I have certainly been impressed with the increase of artistic shots being accepted however when I see a run of 50 or 75 or 100 shots added in one batch; these aviation snap shot takers, I mean photographers really discourages me. Fantastic or rare moments with hopes of being shared with thousands take a back seat to ones where bulk is the goal.

There will always be photographers who take 150 images on a day and upload them all. Another group will upload none or only the one great shot. We like to cater to both.

Hope this answers the questions.
Tim
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G-CIVP
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:54 am

Tim - your response clarifies the majority of questions except for the one I posed above! Which model are the screeners using?
 
timdegroot
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:56 am

It's a dell 22 inch model, don't have the exact name at hand but I think they only make one version.

Cheers
Tim
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:37 am



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 12):
Us getting new screens was certainly going to change something I won't deny that. Any change of screen will have people see different things. We also realized that there would be a transition period where people had to adapt to the new screens in their own editing.

Thanks for that reply Tim. It is somewhat comforting to know that the difficulties in the transition are recognized and were expected.

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 12):
The TFT vs CRT debate isn't over but we'll never be on the right side of it as screeners. before we used to get tons of coments on why we were screening on CRTs while the "whole world" was on TFTs. We had to make a choice when picking the new screens.

CRTs don't even have to be in the mix when debating differences in screens and their appearances. There are enough differences among the TFT and LCD families alone. There are so many variables. Just go to any electronics store and view the same sample images on all the different monitors. The same images appear different on every model.
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Samuel32
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:05 pm

I've had a lot of contrast rejections which I absolutly didnßt agree with. Now I just bought a MacBook Pro and a 20" Cinema Display and I looked at the rejections that I didnt agree with and I still dont even with the new monitor(s).

Quality wise I have had some rejetions which just dont really make sense eather.

Sam,
 
ua935
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:30 pm

Thanks very much for your reply Tim.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:46 pm

Tim - reason why I ask is Dell make different 22" models. The currently marketed standard one doesn't fair too well in trials performed by certain PC websites, whereas the 'TrueLife' models are considered to be better. The standard model is poor on colour correction. Don't even ask about the 20" model, which should be avoided at all costs!

Edited for clarity and additional text.

[Edited 2008-03-08 04:47:25]
 
ua935
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:52 pm



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 18):
Don't even ask about the 20" model, which should be avoided at all costs!

Depends which 20" you are referring to.

If you get the 2007FP or 2007WFP Ultra Sharp that has an S-IPS panel, best panel you can get. They also have the smallest pixel pitch.

Actually all of the Dell 22" monitors use TN panels which are built for gaming speed not image quality.

If you want to check panel types of LCD monitors input the details into the following website which I have found to be an invaluable resource:-

http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

Regards

Simon
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IL76
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting UA935 (Reply 19):
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

Interesting... Type in "LTM" and you'll see how many brands actually use Samsung.
E
 
ua935
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:51 pm

You can do the same for individual panel types.

Type in Tn and all the TN panel monitors are listed, same for S-PVA and S-ips.

Very useful.
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G-CIVP
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:01 pm

UAL935 - Thanks for the reply. I was referring to the E207WFP. Where I get confused is reading on-line reviews. I'm aware that you have to be careful about information posted on the internet, i.e. reliability and accuracy, etc. However, here are some extracts:

computershopper.com says this about the E207WFP

"In our DisplayMate tests, the E207WFP struggled with reproducing gray levels, and color performance was weak. In fact, the startup image we used as a Windows desktop background didn't look sharp. If your work requires precise color reproduction, this isn't the display for you".

prad.de says this about the E228WFP

"The colour space we measured for the E228WFP covers the sRGB working colour space as far as possible. This means that the Dell is suitable for graphics use in the multimedia area where the colours are not as critical (e. g. Web design, Video cutting). However, this monitor is not adequate for use in professional graphics work".

Having a look on wikipedia, taking the information on trust, (I'm aware it could be factually incorrect) it reckons that A-TW-IPS panel is the best one for colour reproduction

I suppose the question is, are these reviews being too critical? Any comments or opinions would be appreciated.
 
ua935
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 22):
A-TW-IPS panel is the best one for colour reproduction

=

NEC 2690UXI = £££ $$$

But that's what I use.

What is the point in investing £££$$$ in bodies and glass to scrimp on a monitor?
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boeingfreak
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:37 pm



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
people getting many contrast

Yes, I have notice that as well.
I had the following picture rejected (on appeal as well) with contrast, dark and common and to be honest I can't see anything wrong with it. I also have no idea how to improve it.

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 550kb


For me, sharpening rejections have increased as well, got lots of oversharpened recently....

Florian
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:42 pm

UAL935 - I wholeheartedly agree with your comments in reply 23 but I would still like to know the precise monitors the screeners are using! Probably a monitor from the Ultrasharp range Dell have marketed.

Florian - That photo is dark. The sun is off the nose and there is a horrible glare down the side of the plane. Given that the Berlin Bus is common in the database, a dark, common rejection seems to be fair. As an aside, with anet, it will get increasingly difficult over time to have shots accepted; I think the law of diminishing returns applies.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:47 pm

Rats-that might explain why all my pics have been rejected-I have the TN type monitor.
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paulinbna
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RE: Screeners - Have Quality Rejections Increased?

Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:55 am



Quoting Samuel32 (Reply 16):
I've had a lot of contrast rejections which I absolutly didnßt agree with. Now I just bought a MacBook Pro and a 20" Cinema Display and I looked at the rejections that I didnt agree with and I still dont even with the new monitor(s).

I recently got my monitor calibrated and that is why I was getting contrast rejections. Have you ever gotten your monitor calibrated. It does not matter what monitor you are using if it has not been calibrated then you computer is telling the monitor the wrong colors.

Quoting SkyWestFan (Reply 8):
have been wondering (without starting a pi$$ing match) if the number of shots ALREADY added to the database helps with the acceptance process. It seems that many photos "sneak" by with questionable quality as so long as the photographer has 1,000plus photos in the db.

Well if this was the case my approval rate would not be around 41% all the time, and others that I know that have over 1000 pictures in the DB would not have the same thing. Seems your theory is flawed.
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