gliderpilot08
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Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:26 pm

Hi community

Below is a link to a picture that just blew my mind.  Wow!
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...l/Boeing-727-2F9-Adv(F)/1350435/L/

I was looking at it and tried to visualize really how high the aircraft is from the ground; and I was unsuccessful.

Could anyone give me an Idea of how high the aircraft is from the street below it.

I'm betting it's under 100 feet!!!!! Are there maybe more pictures of lower appraoches????

Thanks

Luke
Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
 
commpilot
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:35 pm

30 feet maybe??

Seems very unsafe, but then again the other side of the runway is water and a mountain.
 
viv
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:50 pm

All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
gliderpilot08
Posts: 120
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:38 pm

Hi Viv,

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.

 Yeah sure

Any "Monkey" knows that!! but like in the picture at the beginning of this thread, I think that getting a little to low and should violate some minimum heights as it appraoches the threshold of RWY09.

I know for a fact that aircraft usually don't fly this low on appraoch, because even for St. Maartin, I have seen aircraft on appraoch at reasonable heights so that their tires arn't scraping the fence.

I'm sure as heck not saying this is a bad thing, because photographers like us thrive on this kind of appraoch, but I'm saying that that's a little to exteme for the safety of poeple on the ground.

I'm sure that they must have some sort of "mimimum height" for appraoches to SKM?! Don't they???  scared 

Really, I have absolutly nothing agianst SKM in general, (I love that place) but that picture above did raise my attention as to how low it was to the ground, just before it's touchdown. !!!!!!!!  eyepopping 

Best Regards,!

Luke
Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
 
viv
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:42 pm

He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
gliderpilot08
Posts: 120
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:26 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe

Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents that have occured in the aviation world in the past 10 years. I will run out of room in the message space.
 Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure

I am assuming that your comment above meant that air travel is almost 100% safe.  Wink

I am not implying that air travel is hazardous to poeple at SXM, I was just offering a comment that the aircrfat in that picture WAS flying a lot to low on his appraoch. The appraoch he flew was much lower than most appraoches to SXM. From looking at the picture, the aircraft was TOO low for comfort; BUT WHAT A GREAT PICTURE IT PRODUCED!

Best Regards Viv,

Luke
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Psych
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:57 pm

I was chatting to James recently about this famous photo he took at this venue a couple of years ago:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Rowson


This gives you a good indication of where the runway threshold is and, therefore, where the pilot should be aiming to touch down. Clearly this KLM got it a bit wrong, and maybe the 727 was also aiming just a bit short (on purpose?).

I believe it has been known for a plane to take out that fence (presumably not on purpose) - but maybe that needs confirmation from someone better informed than me.

Paul
 
gliderpilot08
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Psych (Reply 6):
was chatting to James recently about this famous photo he took at this venue a couple of years ago:


View Large View Medium

Photo © James Rowson


This gives you a good indication of where the runway threshold is and, therefore, where the pilot should be aiming to touch down. Clearly this KLM got it a bit wrong, and maybe the 727 was also aiming just a bit short (on purpose?).

Paul, you're right and I realize the airport orientation at SXM but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM or is it "as long as you don't hit the highway??" kindof rule.

Amazing picture!

Regards

Luke
Gimli Advisory. Sierra, Oscar, Romeo on right downwind for Rwy 15
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:03 am



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Thread starter):
Are there maybe more pictures of lower appraoches????

If you look, I am sure you will find a few.

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents

First off, Sept. 11 wasnt an accident. 2nd of all, Viv is right, never left a passenger in the sky as far as I know.
 
INNflight
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:25 am



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 7):
but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM

There always are, but that doesn't mean pilots cannot accidently (or on purpose...) slip below that height.

I am not sure what point you try to make? No, it's not the usual SXM approach height...
Jet Visuals
 
gliderpilot08
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:12 am

Airliners.net

Below is the order of posts that contributed to a very bad result in the post, and I am sorry.

Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.



Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 8):
Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.

Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
Really?? September 11, 2001

Really?? Please don't make me illustrate to you the countless aviation accidents

First off, Sept. 11 wasnt an accident. 2nd of all, Viv is right, never left a passenger in the sky as far as I know.



Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 7):
but arn't there "minimum heights" for appraoches to SXM

There always are, but that doesn't mean pilots cannot accidently (or on purpose...) slip below that height.

I am not sure what point you try to make? No, it's not the usual SXM approach height...

To start, It's time to admit my fault. I created this post to try and figure out if there were Mimimum Height rules for aircraft on appraoch; especially for SXM?!
I started getting too much off topic and realize now that I said some things that were outright false.  banghead 

I extend my appologies to Viv for questioning the intelligence of a well-respected aviation enthusiast and member of a.net (Viv).  cry 

I made reply's to this post that were unlogical and had no value in them. and I am sure I insulted a few poeple too; which I dearly wish I didn't. Really guys, I am sorry.

I again am sorry for my actions in this post.  down 

I realize now that the questions I posed in this formum were so trivial, it's rediculous.

Anyway guys, I am sorry.
Obviously, I really need to think through my replys to posts before I start blabbing my BIG mouth on one of the most respected aviation web-sites in the world.

Best Regards Guys  stretch 

Luke  Sad
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wilco737
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:39 am

Hi guys,

usually you cross the threshold at 50 feet which will lead to a touchdown at the 1000' point of the runway. I don't know of many airports where you cross the threshold significantly lower than 50'. Approaches are usually made to overfly the threshold at 50' (+/- a few feet).

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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GPHOTO
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:22 am



Quoting Psych (Reply 6):
I believe it has been known for a plane to take out that fence (presumably not on purpose) - but maybe that needs confirmation from someone better informed than me.

The fence has been collected at least twice that I have heard of - can't believe it doesn't happen more often!

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:34 am



Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
All aircraft fly very low just before hey reach the ground ... otherwise they would not reach it.



Quoting Viv (Reply 4):
He may be low, but air travel is 100% safe - we have never left a passenger up there yet.

Viv, great comments, really funny lol.
But the second one is wrong, there has been several midair collisions, and TWA that blew up probably had quite a few casualties before the wreckage hit the ocean. What is true though, is that all casualties have found their way to the ground  Smile
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viv
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:58 am



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Reply 5):
I am assuming that your comment above meant that air travel is almost 100% safe.

As I said, we have NEVER left a passenger up there yet ...
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
JeffM
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:11 am



Quoting Gliderpilot08 (Thread starter):
Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Excuse me? This whole thread was just ridiculous....

Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
I am not sure what point you try to make?

Sums it up nicely..
 
wilco737
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RE: Excuse Me? This Is Just Too Low...

Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:57 pm

I will lock that thread now as it is going off topic.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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