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ptrjong
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Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:13 pm

Hi all,

In another thread I read that I'm not the only one who dislikes the collective pre and post screening threads that have been in place here for some time now.

I used to like to participate in such threads when they were small and posted individually. You saw the picture, read what others had said in a glance, and if you had something to say you could be writing your reply in 15 seconds. And the original poster would often come back a week later with a rejection or an acceptance, and you could actually learn something out of that.

Now you have to wade through dozens of replies on various picures. The process is cumbersome, confusing, impersonal, not fun, and you generally don't get to see the results. Does anyone think this is an improvement?

I know that people felt there were too many of these individual threads. I didn't see the problem, as it's easy enough to ignore them.

Opinions?

Peter 

[Edited 2008-11-13 11:39:52]
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SNATH
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:22 pm

Never use them / read them. As you say, too much information to go through. I'd personally prefer individual threads.

Tony
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Psych
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:26 pm

Hello Peter.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I say 'unfortunately' because I was one of those who was troubled some time ago when the Forum seemed to be flooded with thread after thread concerning pre/post screening. Other discussions were being swamped by the sheer numbers of those threads. So I felt the Forum overall benefited initially from the change.

But if I am honest I have to admit that I am also one of those now far less likely to make comments on photos in the large threads. As many requests are all put into the same thread it becomes very difficult to see a logical flow of posts once the thread gets beyond a certain length. Then there can be issues re the speed of the thread itself opening. You have to be a lot more dedicated to take the time to read through everything and make sense of the discussions, as you say.

So - for me - the reasoning behind the change was sensible, but I think the consequences have not been great for posters.

In an ideal world I would envisage a 'sub-Forum' of this Photography Forum, explicitly focusing on editing and pre/post advice and comment. Is that a possibility?

Paul
 
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:44 pm

Like I said in the other thread, I never liked the idea of the Pre/Post screen "mega threads". I knew it would be a lot of asking and no responding/helping. It is very hard to follow and often confusing.

I too participate less in these threads than I did with individual threads.

Quoting Ptrjong (Thread starter):
I used to like to participate in such threads when they were small and posted individually. You saw the picture, read what others had said it in a glance, and if you had something to say you could be writing your reply in 15 seconds. And the original poster would often come back a week later with a rejection or an acceptance, and you could actually learn something out of that.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ptrjong (Thread starter):
Now you have to wade through dozens of replies on various picures. The process is cumbersome, confusing, impersonal, not fun, and you generally don't get to see the results. Does anyone think this is an improvement?

 checkmark 

-----

Isn't this place funny? First, we bitch about too many threads flooding the forum so the solution proposed and implemented is to create dedicated threads for such topics. Now we are bitching about them and showing a preference for the old system vs the new. Reminds me of the creativity issue. Many wanted it for years. We now have creative freedom, and suddenly creative = bad! hahahah...funny place.  Smile
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SNATH
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting Psych (Reply 2):
In an ideal world I would envisage a 'sub-Forum' of this Photography Forum, explicitly focusing on editing and pre/post advice and comment. Is that a possibility?

+1

This is an excellent idea, Paul. Maybe this will be the right trade-off?

Regards,

Tony
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JohnKrist
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:31 pm

That's how it's been since we were kids, craving this and that, and when we finally got it it wasn't as good or fun as we thought (my Atari game console being the one exception  tongue  ).

I like the pre post-screening threads, but they are not perfect. I didn't frequent this forum that much before so I can't really say that much about it, but I do remember constant bumps from people who didn't get replies.
Putting them in a sub-forum is not great either, as I doubt that many would even go to such a sub-forum.
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Psych
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:44 pm



Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 5):
Putting them in a sub-forum is not great either, as I doubt that many would even go to such a sub-forum.

You may be right - but maybe not. I have a hunch that the key factor that puts people off inputting is the length of the threads and the fact that a number of requests get 'merged' together, so that it can end up being difficult following which reply relates to which request.

In a 'sub-Forum' there would be no problems with individuals creating their own threads, which would remove that unfortunate side effect of the current system.

Paul
 
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:13 am

As posted in the other thread, I too am not fond of these mega threads. I unerstand why they were put in place, but as other have mentioned, they are too long, hard to follow, and many times there is not that much screener input, which would be the most useful opinion in order to get a shot ready for this site. Obviously screener priority is screening, so I'm not complaining about that at all, but it's one more of all of these things that put together make these mega threads near to useless and frustrating for those who post in them

rgds  Smile
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NIKV69
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:10 am

I prefer the old method, more personal and easier to go through.
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whappeh
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:15 am

I dislike them.

While it was a pain in the ass to see a ton of HEY SCREEN THIS PIC FOR ME REAL FAST threads on the front of the page, it seemed like you actually got help in them for some reason. In the collective thread, the pictures I've ever posted all received resounding "LOOKS GREAT STICK IN THE QUEUE!" only to have them rejected or even worse, no response at all. I've stopped even using them, and just upload with out pre-screening, and that seems to be a bit counterproductive to the point of the threads.
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ptrjong
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:29 am

As I said, I personally didn't have a problem with a dozen of such threads running. I did think a few people were asking for pre-screening all too often, for loads of very similiar pictures.

How about it when there could be only one of these threads per photographer? In other words, when you ask for help again you need to use the same thread? Give the threads a clear name, and it becomes even easier to avoid them if you're not interested.

Peter
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viv
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:05 am

I don't like the pre/post-screening threads. I rarely look at them and even more rarely comment.
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walter2222
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:45 am



Quoting Psych (Reply 2):
In an ideal world I would envisage a 'sub-Forum' of this Photography Forum, explicitly focusing on editing and pre/post advice and comment. Is that a possibility?

Good idea, Paul!

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 10):
How about it when there could be only one of these threads per photographer? In other words, when you ask for help again you need to use the same thread? Give the threads a clear name, and it becomes even easier to avoid them if you're not interested.

Another good idea, Peter!

... and I would also limit it to photographers with an acceptance ration below 50% (the others should not need to ask  Smile)

Best regards,

Walter
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viv
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:36 pm



Quoting Walter2222 (Reply 12):
and I would also limit it to photographers with an acceptance ration below 50%

And exclude anyone with more than 25 photos accepted.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:21 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 13):
And exclude anyone with more than 25 photos accepted.

Viv, with one more picture accepted that would exclude me as well, but I have tons of rejections, so I think the acceptance ratio should be the main focus since I'm sure there are many others that are in my position (more that 25 in but low %).  Smile
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SNATH
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:25 pm



Quoting Walter2222 (Reply 12):
... and I would also limit it to photographers with an acceptance ration below 50%



Quoting Viv (Reply 13):
And exclude anyone with more than 25 photos accepted.

I respectfully disagree with these two proposals. I have more than 25 photos in the DB and an acceptance ratio of 54% right now. However, my acceptance ratio has dropped quite a lot this year and I've struggled to get photos accepted. So, I'd potentially like to get a bit more feedback on my shots than "quality" (or whatever...). With the new "creative" rules too, I think even "established" photographers might want to ask for pre-screening advice too.

My  twocents 

Tony
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walter2222
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:57 pm



Quoting SNATH (Reply 15):
So, I'd potentially like to get a bit more feedback on my shots than "quality" (or whatever...).

Hi Tony,

Hope you are doing OK! I agree with your idea that potentially, everybody would like more feedback with rejections (I respect the screeners a lot for the time they take to write "personals", always appreciated!!). And it is indeed easier to accept if one gets similar feedback from others. For that reason, I would not put a limit on the post-screening/rejection thread.
But, in order to keep pre-screening workable, it should be limited somehow. Otherwise, the ones who really need pre-screening advise, will not get it either...

Quoting SNATH (Reply 15):
However, my acceptance ratio has dropped quite a lot this year and I've struggled to get photos accepted.

 checkmark 
Same here! In my case, that is also due because I try to upload shots I personnaly like, even if they are taken under very poor conditions (e.g. in very bad weather, heavy rain, dark Belgian weather  Smile ....) and this certainly has an impact on my acceptance ratio (but I don't care, because some do get through, after some iterations).

PS: I am still wondering how you manage to always get these clean windows on your flights? I love your window-shots!!

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:17 pm

Well, from the replies it seems that most people dislike the collective threads.

Not only this, it also appears that the quality of the discussion and the quality of the advice from them is lower. With skilled eyes like Paul's less inclined to participate, this is hardly surprising.

This of course means that the collective threads fail to do their job, ie, reducing the workload for the screeners in the queue. I hope the crew will look into this.

Quoting Walter2222 (Reply 12):
I would also limit it to photographers with an acceptance ration below 50%



Quoting Viv (Reply 13):
And exclude anyone with more than 25 photos accepted.



Quoting SNATH (Reply 15):
I respectfully disagree with these two proposals.

Same here. While I have over 1500 photos in the db and a 78% ratio, I do have specific questions from time to time - right now I have a tricky leveling isue that I would like to ask about (but somehow I don't feel like doing so in the collective thread).

Anyway, these two proposals are hardly practical.

Peter
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:24 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 17):
Anyway, these two proposals are hardly practical.

I agree. Just because you have at least X number of acceptances or a decent acceptance ratio does mean you wont develop questions from time to time and that should not exclude you from the benefit of other sets of eyes being able to offer help with those questions.
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:41 pm



Quoting Psych (Reply 2):
In an ideal world I would envisage a 'sub-Forum' of this Photography Forum, explicitly focusing on editing and pre/post advice and comment. Is that a possibility?

Totally agree, and this idea has been suggested before. The current mass threads are a major turn off, the main photography forum being flooded with too many individual threads wasn't great either. A new forum dedicated to this would solve both problems, I believe, and those who are willing to offer advice would probably still frequent it... though that last point could potentially be problematic.
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f4wso
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting TransIsland (Reply 19):
Totally agree, and this idea has been suggested before. The current mass threads are a major turn off, the main photography forum being flooded with too many individual threads wasn't great either. A new forum dedicated to this would solve both problems, I believe, and those who are willing to offer advice would probably still frequent it... though that last point could potentially be problematic.

I concur with your comments. I often read the smaller posts to see what techniques I might add to my own knowledgebase. I've rarely contributed since I am more comfortable commenting on the subject rather than the photogrpahy aspect.

The longer threads are too much of a time drain keep a continuity of the topic discussion. I would like to see another forum for these threads. If the newer photographers should have a place to be mentored.

Gary
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Psych
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:14 pm



Quoting TransIsland (Reply 19):
those who are willing to offer advice would probably still frequent it... though that last point could potentially be problematic.

Well I, for one, would try to make a commitment to offer guidance in a new Forum. Though done with the best of intentions, with hindsight I think many agree the long threads are not too user-friendly.

I also agree with the other comments that no-one should be prevented from seeking advice in such a setting.

Cheers.

Paul
 
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting Psych (Reply 2):
In an ideal world I would envisage a 'sub-Forum' of this Photography Forum, explicitly focusing on editing and pre/post advice and comment. Is that a possibility?

I concur, although I have received valuable feedback from the mega-threads as well (mostly due to being one of the first to post to such threads.)

The idea of the sub-forum has merit albeit with one caveat: One of the biggest abuses in my humble opinion of the individual posts is using them to decry the decision of a screener about a rejection and turning it into a public opinion forum rather than seeking legitimate input as to why it was rejected. Flame away if you will, but that's my 10 cents (inflation sucks.)
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:46 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 17):
While I have over 1500 photos in the db and a 78% ratio, I do have specific questions from time to time - right now I have a tricky leveling isue that I would like to ask about (but somehow I don't feel like doing so in the collective thread).

I understand your point, Peter, but I see this as a different question from a photographer who understands the uploading-rules very well. So this type of question belongs in the photography forum (and such questions should indeed be allowed for all). These types of questions generally are a basis for sound discussions.

I see the pre-screen sub-forum more as a sub-forum for the unexperienced (with respect to the uploading rules) photographers who generally come up with a couple of shots and ask for pre-screening and as reply - in most cases - get a couple of rejection reasons (which can then be further explained, if need be).

For me, these two kind of questions are of a different nature...

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...
 
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:23 pm

Just throwing this out here, but what if perhaps the policy in regards to thread length were to be altered so that folks don't end up having posts buried in these threads? Typically, the Moderators allow threads to reach 300 posts before locking them and allowing a new part to be started.

Quoting Michlis (Reply 22):
The idea of the sub-forum has merit albeit with one caveat: One of the biggest abuses in my humble opinion of the individual posts is using them to decry the decision of a screener about a rejection and turning it into a public opinion forum rather than seeking legitimate input as to why it was rejected. Flame away if you will, but that's my 10 cents (inflation sucks.)

When you see that sort of behavior, suggest the post for deletion, as these threads are for constructive comments, not for lambasting or insulting the crew or other members.
 
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:36 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 24):
Just throwing this out here, but what if perhaps the policy in regards to thread length were to be altered so that folks don't end up having posts buried in these threads?

What I don't like about the threads is the way they turn out regardless of length. Pre screen, followed by pre screen, followed by pre screen...then an answer to maybe one of them...then along comes another pre screen, then another. Then someone who wants to answer one or some of them has to quote the person whos photo they are commenting on, but the image doesnt show up in the quote which makes it harder to tell which image is being refered to for anyone trying to follow along. If you posted a question, it's likely a handful of others post questions before yours gets answered IF yours gets seen at all...so it's very hard to sift through the thread to (hopefully) find a comment about your photo. And because it's all a jumbled mess, it makes following along in order to help others unappealing.

Just my $.02
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EZEIZA
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:04 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 22):
One of the biggest abuses in my humble opinion of the individual posts is using them to decry the decision of a screener about a rejection and turning it into a public opinion forum rather than seeking legitimate input as to why it was rejected

I see where you're going, but that could happen in the long threards too. And IMHO, as long as its done respectully enough, I woudn't see a problem with people questioning screeners decisions. That's what a forum is for, to promote discussion and debate. I feel photogs should be allowed to open such threads because at the end of the day they are looking for an answer that possibly only the screener would know how to answer, and with just one reply it'll all be set.
As it stands now, the big threads don't help the queue at all, since many people that post in the pre-screen will not recieve an answer and will upload anyway, hence filling up the queue, hence 10 days later getting a rejection for whatever reason, and at the end, re edit and upload again, filling up the queue even further.
Idividual threads might sometimes be annoying because there will be many, but no one is forced to look at them anyway, and it could have a positive effect on photogs and the queue.

rgds  Smile
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
NIKV69
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:45 am



Quoting Walter2222 (Reply 12):
and I would also limit it to photographers with an acceptance ration below 50% (the others should not need to ask )

Why? If someone has a ratio of 60% they know everything?

Quoting Viv (Reply 13):
And exclude anyone with more than 25 photos accepted.

Oh yea that's an idea!

Quoting SNATH (Reply 15):
respectfully disagree with these two proposals. I have more than 25 photos in the DB and an acceptance ratio of 54% right now. However, my acceptance ratio has dropped quite a lot this year and I've struggled to get photos accepted. So, I'd potentially like to get a bit more feedback on my shots than "quality" (or whatever...). With the new "creative" rules too, I think even "established" photographers might want to ask for pre-screening advice too.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 17):
Anyway, these two proposals are hardly practical.

Yea trying to qualify who is allowed to ask advice is not pratical.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:46 pm

I like the post-screening ones a little better. I prefer to take my chances on the pictures. The worst thing they can do is reject it (Of course, having a 0% acceptance ratio lessens the blow).
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ptrjong
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:48 am

Well, it seems that many people do have an issue with the old situation (too many threads), but the new situation seems worse from a viewpoint of getting help with one's photos.

Is there any chance of a response from the crew?

Peter Smile
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gasgh
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:45 am

I agree with Peter, I find using these "mega threads" very cumbersome and confusing.

Personally, I would like to see a specific forum for the pre- and post- reviews. Then those of us relatively new to this can get some specific and on topic help with our work, reviewing and commenting on a specific photo or two.

Those of you who don't want to look... don't have to! Those willing to share some constructive criticism and suggestions can do so (and I know I would find it most welcome!).

Thanks!
 
paulinbna
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:54 am

I don't like the big threads. Seems like the old way you would get a lot of feed back for each picture. The way it is now, you might get one person replying before it is lost in the muddle of everyone's elses posts
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whisperjet
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RE: Pre/Post Screening Threads: Opinions?

Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:38 am

Hi,

I also hate these megathread since you, in most cases, don't get a reply. With the old threads there were also more comments by the screeners and often they turned out to become some kind of discussion, not about the rejection itself but about photographing and editing techniques.

What I also don't like concerning rejection is the appeal function. I know that the headscreeners are busy but imo they should at least try to include a short note concerning the rejection. Otherwise this feature is completely useless and just a confirmation of the screener's previous decision.

Stefan
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