johndm1957
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Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

I've had quite a long break from uploading, but added 5 to the queue to see if I'd lost the knack!

I was puzzled to get 'Double' rejections, (along with others), using the criteria that used to be acceptable.

First one, same aircraft, same day, one shot of left side, other of right side, both in flight.

Second, three shots, one left side, one right and under side in flight, one landing.

They were rejected for other reasons....quite correctly too...the light at Miramar is a nightmare.

But just interested if the rules have changed since early last year?

John
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ThierryD
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:30 pm

John,

as far as I know the double rule has remained unchanged but showing your examples would make it easier to tell what the issue was.

Cheers,

Thierry
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johndm1957
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:59 pm



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jorge1812
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:33 pm



Quoting Johndm1957 (Thread starter):
First one, same aircraft, same day, one shot of left side, other of right side, both in flight.

Normally an appeal is doing the job in that situation.

georg
 
johndm1957
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:46 pm

No appeal needed here georg.

They were correctly rejected for 'contrast' & 'quality', its the 'double' I don't quite understand.
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bubbles
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:20 pm



Quoting Johndm1957 (Reply 2):
John

Hi John

I want to make it clear that they are not double. Other quality-wise rejection reasons are still valid. But double rejection was wrongly given. Sorry about that.

It is definitely allowed to upload both sides of the airplane taken on the same day.

_Hongyin_
 
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:21 pm

I have a problem with the double rejection when it is strictly applied to airshows. I can understand the rejection reason when dealing with standard side-on shots of a 737 or A320 depicting a routine action. But when you catch a 20 minute demonstration of an aircraft performing some of its top maneuvers, you are bound to get a few spectacular shots.

At the Miramar Airshow last October, a 747SP made a surprise visit with some spectacular passes. It performed two especially eye-opening passes, one at high speed no more than 30 feet off the deck and another in formation with The Patriots jet team. Because I got a shot of the low pass accepted, I cannot get the other shot accepted because the screeners feel it's a double. It sucks that both passes showed the same side of the aircraft. I even tried uploading it under a registration from another aircraft in the formation but no foolin those screeners. It's not like there are hundreds of photos of this rare event flooding in...none other than mine have been accepted up to this point. So it bothers me that I cannot share that sight with the viewers here. I know for a fact some would enjoy seeing it in the database.

You are right about the light at Miramar John...not a photography friendly airshow, that's for sure.
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johndm1957
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm

Quoting Bubbles (Reply 6):
Hi John

I want to make it clear that they are not double. Other quality-wise rejection reasons are still valid. But double rejection was wrongly given. Sorry about that.

It is definitely allowed to upload both sides of the airplane taken on the same day.

_Hongyin_

Hiya

You must have posted as I was writing my last reply!

Question answered, many thanks for clearing that up for me.

You'll be pleased to know that I've some better ones from Miramar still to come.

Cheers,

John

[Edited 2009-01-19 13:37:05]
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bubbles
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:31 pm



Quoting Johndm1957 (Reply 9):
You'll be pleased to know that I've some better ones from Miramar still to come.

Good. Keep'em coming.  Smile

_Hongyin_
 
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:39 pm



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 7):
You are right about the light at Miramar John...not a photography friendly airshow, that's for sure.

We plan to attend the 2009 show, so hoping for cloud rather than the glare of the sun in front all day.

Quoting Bubbles (Reply 8):
Good. Keep'em coming.

Soon...
 Big grin
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:46 pm



Quoting Johndm1957 (Reply 9):
We plan to attend the 2009 show, so hoping for cloud rather than the glare of the sun in front all day.

As much as I bitch about that airshow and the usual weather that shows up, I will say the cloud cover probably saved that one photo I got accepted. A little ironic... haha
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carloscane
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:41 am

So just to get this clear, if I upload a photo of a plane showing it's side and then the plane showing the nose, would that be accepted?

Thanks!
 
Brasila684
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:54 am



Quoting Carloscane (Reply 11):
So just to get this clear, if I upload a photo of a plane showing it's side and then the plane showing the nose, would that be accepted?

Thanks!

I would probably think that both both the photo's would make it in. I would try to both the photo's motives and angles as different as possible.


Brasila684

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sovietjet
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:21 am

Without naming names, I have seen people upload photos and write just the year or the month and the year(for example 2008 or July, 2008). I've seen this used as a loophole against double rejections in the past. One can upload 2 photos from a certain date and then upload more and use the month/year format. This works especially well for airshow events that go on for several days. I think given today's camera equipment there is no need to put this ambiguity in the photo information since every camera records the date a photo is taken(hell even hours, minutes and seconds!)
 
jorge1812
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:22 am



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 13):

Prepare to get flamed for that statement  Wink. You are right, some people doing this just for the chance to get another one in, but others do it because they were missed at their work/school on a special date b/c of being sick Big grin

georg
 
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:10 am

Yes that is a valid point when it comes to sick days  Wink. On the other hand, how many employers browse a.net to catch their employees lying  Big grin
 
jorge1812
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:29 pm



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 15):
On the other hand, how many employers browse a.net to catch their employees lying

When I know he's photog there and very often sick I would do it frequently.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:38 pm



Quoting Carloscane (Reply 11):
So just to get this clear, if I upload a photo of a plane showing it's side and then the plane showing the nose, would that be accepted?



Quoting Brasila684 (Reply 12):
I would probably think that both both the photo's would make it in. .

Not so, one will usually be rejected if it's the same side of the aircraft

Peter Smile
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jorge1812
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:23 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 17):
Not so, one will usually be rejected if it's the same side of the aircraft

So no chance for this


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Georg Noack



and this one?!?!



georg
 
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Scooter01
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:03 pm



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 18):
So no chance for this



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 18):
and this one?!?!

Well, your motive has moved, so in my eyes it seems to be a different shot.

Much like these two:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brad Campbell



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Budd - Las Vegas Spotters



where the same plane (motive) has been captured at almost the same moment by two different photographers, or that the photographers have been standing a small distance away from each other.


Scooter01 (Screener in training  biggrin  )
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andz
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:36 am

How about these:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Zak Economides
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jorgos Tsambikakis

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Fly747
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:58 am



Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
How about these:

How are these doubles?
 
andz
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:21 am

They are more double than the 747s in the previous post, these guys were standing side by side and snapped the same plane as it taxied by. One photo doesn't add any more value to the database than the other.
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ua935
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:32 am



Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 19):
where the same plane (motive) has been captured at almost the same moment by two different photographers, or that the photographers have been standing a small distance away from each other.



Quoting Andz (Reply 22):
They are more double than the 747s in the previous post, these guys were standing side by side and snapped the same plane as it taxied by. One photo doesn't add any more value to the database than the other.

What are you guys on about???? The double rule does not apply to two different photographers shooting at the same location on the same day, it applies to an individual uploading multiple similar images.
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GPHOTO
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:01 am



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 15):
Yes that is a valid point when it comes to sick days . On the other hand, how many employers browse a.net to catch their employees lying

We do receive requests from employees of companies who wish exact dates to be removed from their photos and this we honour. Likewise, some will not upload the exact date even when they know it for the same reason. Some employers can be funny about employees taking pictures while on company time or using their access privileges (as is an employers right). We have even had to remove images from the database because employers have made life difficult for the uploader. Fortunately these instances are not common, but they do happen.

We don't want to see anyone suffer as a result of sharing the images with everyone here, so requests for date or photo removal in such circumstances are honoured. However, anyone found trying to use this approach to deliberately sneak doubles into the database would be in breach of the site rules and subject to appropriate action.

But you are all good honest uploaders, so I am sure there will not be any problems!  Smile

Best regards,

Jim
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ptrjong
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:49 am



Quoting UA935 (Reply 23):
What are you guys on about???? The double rule does not apply to two different photographers shooting at the same location on the same day, it applies to an individual uploading multiple similar images.

 checkmark 
Exactly, it simply doesn't apply to different photographers. Try to consider this from a photographer's point of view. You've photographed something special, the kind of thing that makes you want to contribute to this site, and then supposedly you can't upload it just because the guy who happened to stand next to you beat you to it... That would be too frustrating. That said, I do try to avoid uploading photos that look very similar to shots by other photographers.

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 18):
So no chance for this
and this one?!?!



Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 19):
Well, your motive has moved, so in my eyes it seems to be a different shot.

I'd certainly expect it to be rejected for double...

Georg, also, the second shot isn't half as nice as the taxiing shot in my opinion, so should you even want to get it in the DB?

Peter
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timdegroot
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:56 am

Hi All

The double rule will never include images taken by other photogs. Uploading would then become a nasty process whereby people would try to outdo eachother as to who'll be first.


Tim
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jorge1812
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RE: Have 'Double' Rules Changed?

Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 25):
Georg, also, the second shot isn't half as nice as the taxiing shot in my opinion, so should you even want to get it in the DB?

I like the second one more but that might just be local patriotism....

georg

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