dlowwa
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Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:57 pm

I tried the contact us form, but it didn't seem to be working, so I guess I'll have to bring this up here...

I think something's not right here....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keishi Nukina
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Fulsome



pretty sure that's exactly the same shot. Does this kind of .... thing... happen often? My photos are not involved, but should I try to contact Admin, screeners, or database editors?
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:25 pm

They are exactly the same image.

Having said that, it may be true that the image is stolen, but it may not necessarily have been the case, or deliberate. It may have been a case of a photographer lending someone his camera, sending it to them to upload, and looking back through his images and forgetting he hadn't been the one to take it.

The appropriate course of action would be to contact the screeners, in order to avoid calling out a photographer in case it was something innocent, as in the scenario I gave above.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
snw
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:45 pm

There have been a couple of site bugs relating to the database and info being incorrectly attached to images and so forth - could this be a bug?
(just throwing out another possibility - don't know how possible it may be)
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:38 pm

Yeah, as I said, I tried writing to admin via the 'contact us' form, but my browser wasn't letting me send it for some reason. Should I try screeners@airliners.net or admin@airliners.net or something like that?

I don't want to accuse anyone here, but the only reason I recognized the photo when it was added was that on another site this person had tried to pass it off as their own, along with one of my own pictures.

Moderators, please let me know the appropriate address(es) I should be sending my concerns to.
 
mat1979
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:49 pm

You should have tried screeners at airliners.net but now that the thread has been created i don't think there is any need for emailing them...
 
Scotland1979
Crew
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:03 am

Thanks for bringing it up! We, the screeners, are taking care of these photos.

Thanks again!
Jesus said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting Scotland1979 (Reply 5):
Thanks for bringing it up! We, the screeners, are taking care of these photos.

You're welcome! Just for future reference, should something like this (hopefully not) happen again, it's the screeners, not admin, etc., who are the ones to contact?

thanks.
 
Brasila684
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:26 am



Quoting Dlowwa (Reply 6):
Just for future reference, should something like this (hopefully not) happen again, it's the screeners, not admin, etc., who are the ones to contact?

I'm not a photo screener or anything, but you should contact the photo screeners via their email at screeners@airliners.net (I hope  Smile)


Brasila684


SkyWest Baby!!!!
 
Stil
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:01 am

Hi.

I think the problem is not the screening process. The problem is that 'double' rejection needs to be redefined.
It happens more times than aesthetically desirable that 2 pictures are accepted being susbstancially identical -not this case, as they are the same-, but taken by 2 different photographers standing beside each other and shooting to the same aircraft at the same moment.
When someone is surfing through the latest additions and sees two identical thumbnails, the first thing that springs to mind is that an error ocurred somewhere. Yes, if you see the 2 pictures you'll find they're slightly different; but it's some kind of "visual cacophony".
I don't know anything about the screening process, but maybe the screener checked the similar pictures of the same aircraft and found the first published of this two, but as they came from different photographers he didn't pay further attention.
Just my opinion, although.

Stil
....... Gueropppa! ......
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:07 am

The only problem Stil is that aviation photography as become so competitive at LHR, it is difficult to see how a double rule could be applied fairly without discriminating against different photographers. Just do a search on PT-MUC @ LHR to see what I'm on about.
 
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cpd
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:08 pm



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 9):
could be applied fairly without discriminating against different photographers.

Whoever uploads first then. However, I'd like to think we can all upload a photo of the same thing, even if they are similar - as long as the photo is good. No two photos are ever quite the same.

It's competitive everywhere - it's just the way the game has become. People getting better cameras, better lenses and doing their utmost to get the better photo than the next person. Hell, we are on a level where we routinely get better photos than some of the photographers on salary at certain aviation magazines. Some of us (ie, not me) probably well out-do the regular press photographers too. I'm pretty certain some of us have an armada of camera equipment they would love to have.

It is pretty competitive, and some comments on another forum confirmed the way things sometimes are. Whenever a desirable new plane is spotted, you can't tell me there isn't ambition within some of these photographers to get more views/more prominence than the next person to photograph the same thing. If you tell me that it doesn't matter - then you are being economical with the truth - or you are a politician.

Even I like to get prominence to my photos - but not at the expense of things gettiing 'competitive' in the way G-CIVP in the message above might be suggesting (if I've understood right).
 
Stil
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:28 pm



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 9):
Just do a search on PT-MUC @ LHR to see what I'm on about.

My God! I do perfectly see what you are talking about and I have to admit you're right, it would be quite difficult to apply this rule fairly and maybe -just maybe- it will add more problems than solutions.
But many of the pictures on your example would fit in the thread start, as some of them are identical, and a way -not the only one- to prevent this is redefining the 'double' concept. Maybe the first submitted would have priority and thus force the photographers to try slight differents views of the same aircraft in such competitive situations.
I'm conscious of what I'm stating here is way too easier to say when your home airport is a small one with no situations like this one at all, but once more, I'm just giving my opinion.

Stil
....... Gueropppa! ......
 
Samuel32
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:09 pm

Guys its heading for the top of the day which is really a shame for the original photographer because hes not being credited for it (even though its been uploaded few years ago)...

Fix it...
 
Dazed767
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:09 pm

I'm surprised Michael Fulsome's photo which isn't his is still up.
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:59 pm



Quoting Dazed767 (Reply 13):
I'm surprised Michael Fulsome's photo which isn't his is still up.

haha! it's been 23 hours and now the photo is one of the Top 5 of 24 hours. what kind of paperwork needs to be filled out, before someone who can make a decision, takes it down?
Slower traffic, keep right
 
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Plainplane
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 pm

I remember someone posting about that before - where someone uploaded an image and it put someone else's image in its place, however the description matched whatever the image should have been.

However this one seems like a clear cut case. What a shame. BOO THIEF BOO!!!
 
oly720man
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:28 pm



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 14):
before someone who can make a decision, takes it down?

I imagine all sides of the story have to be gone into before a decision is made and if it takes time to contact someone then nothing may appear to happen. Maybe there should be a quarantine so questionable photos are not accesible until issues like this are sorted. I know this will then lead to questions about where the "dodgy" photos are so should such threads be deleted, or at least closed, once the issue has been raised?
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
picturethis
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:02 am



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 9):
Just do a search on PT-MUC @ LHR to see what I'm on about.

Haha, that is hilarious.

With around 700 views for each photo though, the visitors still wan't to see the photos, regardless of the amount.

Though about 7 photos its quite funny.
Make sure they know we're playing the game, but we don't need to play the game because we've already won the game.
 
sovietjet
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 9):

What amazes me is the fact that all of these photos have variations in the sky color and such, yet they were shot at the same exact time. Some have a nice blue sky, while others seem hazy. So which photo is correct  Smile ?

Another example of this oversaturation(no pun intended) at English airports is this:

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...truecount=false&engine_version=6.0
 
oly720man
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:21 am



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 18):
Another example of this oversaturation(no pun intended) at English airports is this:

So what's the record for the most photos of the same plane at about the same time by different photographers? 13 is going to take some beating.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:16 pm

Cpd,

I think it is going to depend on the subject matter. In the context of PT-MUC at LHR on the 3rd January 2009, it was already on the database, so wasn't a 'first'. If two photographers get a first, then I no issue with them sharing the glory. I think this was an exceptional episode but is not uncommon. Just see F-ORMA at LHR. Whether this should be stopped, I think it is a difficult call as it would be an arbitrary rule.

True, no photos are never quite the same, but if you look at PT-MUC photos for the date above, these are very similar. This was an 09L arrival at LHR and the opportunities for variation are limited. It's going to be a sky shot whatever.

I agree with your comments on competition. Simply, digital cameras have reduced the barriers to entry and photographers from a wider pool can now submit photos to magazines, websites, etc. I think there are those photographers, especially on the LHR, LGW, LTN, STN circuit who are very competitive and are keen to demonstrate their output on anet. I think anet does fuel this ambition. This said, it's down to them; if they wish to spend their spare time at airfields, then that's their choice. Whether money can be made, that's another matter. The short answer is yes but not enough to replace the day job or for a Mayfair address.

To demonstrate the competitive streak that now dominates , I have known one photographer at LHR to come armed with a laptop, take the photo, edit it and go to the nearest wi-fi spot to upload to anet!

Sovietjet - If what I recall, the smog didn't help but it was slightly clearer towards the runway threshold! I just bumped up the levels.

Happy shutter-bugging!

LHR Photos
 
ketko2
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:21 am

Hi, as a photographer of that photo (Keishi) am wondering, what really happened.

Cause it really seems, its just reupload of my photo, since the crop, the colors and everything is the same.

Hope its just some DB error.

Regards, Keishi
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:55 am



Quoting Ketko2 (Reply 21):
It really seems, its just reupload of my photo, since the crop, the colors and everything is the same.

It's the same photo.

The photographer has just this single photo on a.net, and joined the site 32 days ago. If this is a DB error, he's really unlucky.

He seems to be user CanonPhotog, who wrote a post about the Canon 800 mm lens in this forum, then said that this was just what his neighbour said about it.

Kieshi, did you try sending him a message?

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:51 am



Quoting Ketko2 (Reply 21):
Hope its just some DB error.



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 22):
If this is a DB error, he's really unlucky.



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 14):
what kind of paperwork needs to be filled out, before someone who can make a decision, takes it down?

Well, it's been almost three days now, and nothing's been done, so I guess I'll tell you guys (as I mentioned earlier) that I highly doubt this is a mistake/error.

I only noticed the photo as being already in the db because on another site the guy who uploaded it had been trying to claim he had taken it, along with other photos from a.net (including my own). He was called out pretty easily there (as the photo credits didn't match his id), and he ended up being banned from the site. I would guess that the screeners/whomever was to deal with this was waiting for a response from the guy, but I think he's had enough time, especially given that we've heard from the real photographer now.

Sorry about all this Keishi, but I think you deserve not to have credit for this photo stolen from you (and it is a great shot by the way!)
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:10 am



Quoting Dlowwa (Reply 23):
I only noticed the photo as being already in the db because on another site the guy who uploaded it had been trying to claim he had taken it, along with other photos from a.net (including my own). He was called out pretty easily there (as the photo credits didn't match his id), and he ended up being banned from the site

Then the case is pretty obvious. Why didn't you say this before?

Quoting Dlowwa (Reply 23):
I would guess that the screeners/whomever was to deal with this was waiting for a response from the guy, but I think he's had enough time, especially given that we've heard from the real photographer now.

Agreed.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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cpd
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:16 am



Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 20):

I think it is going to depend on the subject matter. In the context of PT-MUC at LHR on the 3rd January 2009, it was already on the database, so wasn't a 'first'. If two photographers get a first, then I no issue with them sharing the glory. I think this was an exceptional episode but is not uncommon. Just see F-ORMA at LHR. Whether this should be stopped, I think it is a difficult call as it would be an arbitrary rule.

I agree with those thoughts. Seeing the TU-154 mentioned above, that's a obvious example, where does the line need to be drawn. But if it were me, I'd be uncomfortable having to decide which photo should go on, and which one shouldn't. It'd be a nightmare and cause no end of disputes I think.

Quoting Ketko2 (Reply 21):
Hi, as a photographer of that photo (Keishi) am wondering, what really happened.

Cause it really seems, its just reupload of my photo, since the crop, the colors and everything is the same.

Hope its just some DB error.

Regards, Keishi

Can I just say, that's a beautiful photo. Well done.  Smile

Regards,
Chris.
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:32 am



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 24):
Why didn't you say this before?

Well, I didn't want to seem too accusatory, or set out too much of a negative tone, given that protocol in these forums is not to go around calling out other photographers (...mind you I did call it 'blatant theft' in the thread title... so much for non-accusatory I guess...  Wink )

I had hoped that the site admin/screeners would have gone about dealing with this quickly and quietly, and we could have forgotten about this unfortunate incident, but the photo is still there...
 
viv
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:38 am



Quoting Dlowwa (Reply 26):
other photographers

There is no proof that he is a photographer - the disputed duplicate shot is the only one he has uploaded.

It appears to be a clear case of plagiarism, although I hope this is not the case and that another explanation will be forthcoming.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:14 am



Quoting Viv (Reply 27):

There is no proof that he is a photographer

You know what, you're absolutely right. Let's call him the other 'uploader' then.

Quoting Viv (Reply 27):
although I hope this is not the case and that another explanation will be forthcoming.

Me too.
 
Psych
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:31 pm

I am pleased to see that the apparently stolen photo has now been removed.

Paul
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:49 pm

Yes Paul, I can confirm that after looking into the matter, the image has now been removed.

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:58 pm

Just to say, I always love a happy ending!  Smile
 
wilco737
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RE: Pretty Blatant Photo Theft... On A.net

Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:19 pm

And the case is closed: thread locked.

wilco737

[Edited 2009-01-24 06:24:24]

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