damien846
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Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:07 pm

I use a D300 and am very happy with it...........but the D700 some people say is better ...........but why???????? Why is full frame better? (for a.net use?)
 
waketurbulence
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:43 pm

I'd say generally it is not better. I like having the crop factor for extra 'reach' in almost all situations. One thing that will be better in general on full frame is less noise at higher ISO, but I would think most aviation photographers shoot at lower ISO's anyway so that isn't an issue. It comes down to personal preference but I'd stick with the D300.
-Matt
 
viv
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:17 pm

It is a much better camera; not only for high ISO shooting, but the processing engine, autofocus, colour rendition, viewfinder and screen are better. It also has the sensor dust removal system.

You get what you pay for.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
viv
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:22 pm

I forgot to add: if you photograph aircraft and nothing else, the D300 or D700 are much better cameras than you need; any old body with a decent lens is sufficient for aviation photography.

For real photography, the D700 is a joy to use.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:58 pm

As someone who shoots both DX (half-frame sensor) and FX (full-frame sensor) I will tell you that the pixel quality is higher on the larger sensor.

If your budget supports a full-frame camera then buy one. If not, most will be happy with the smaller sensor.
 
stevemchey
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:10 am

WakeTurbulence, a crop factor only appears to give you a better reach, but in reality, it is more like a digital zoom. While a full frame registers all the light coming through the lens, the smaller sensor cuts off information on all sides, therefore giving you the appearance of a zoom. It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS.

I recently upgraded to the 5D2. It certainly took a few days to get used to the full frame, but now I would never turn back. If you can afford a full frame, go for it. They are worth every penny.
 
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cpd
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:20 am

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 1):
I'd say generally it is not better. I like having the crop factor for extra 'reach' in almost all situations. One thing that will be better in general on full frame is less noise at higher ISO, but I would think most aviation photographers shoot at lower ISO's anyway so that isn't an issue. It comes down to personal preference but I'd stick with the D300.
-Matt

Have you used the D700? If you have, you'll discover why it is better. It produces very clean images - the quality is beautiful. If your camera can produce clean images at high ISO settings, then you have the advantage over other camera which can not whenever conditions get dark. It doesn't automatically make you a better photographer, but it gives you more chances - and makes things a lot easier because the systems in the camera just work. The AF works well, it doesn't get confused easily - the colour quality and accuracy seems to be very good. It's a superb camera.

The crop factor doesn't provide extra reach - it's simply a crop, with a narrower angle of view. It doesn't help quality either. Even worse, it means that lenses don't perform as they should. You end up with 300mm lenses having a view angle of something like a 450mm, etc. But worse, if you look at lenses like the new 14-24mm Zoom Nikkor, on a 24x16mm body, you lose the usefulness of that lens. Same with the 24-70mm Zoom Nikkor.

Quoting Damien846 (Thread starter):
I use a D300 and am very happy with it...........but the D700 some people say is better ...........but why???????? Why is full frame better? (for a.net use?)

If you were upgrading, I'd recommend keeping the D300 and having the D700 as well. That brings some other nice little benefits (like Nikon Professional Services). In Australia, if you have two pro-grade bodies (along with some other minor prerequisites) you can join.

Quoting Viv (Reply 2):
autofocus,

I thought D300, D700, D3, D3x all used Multicam 3500 autofocus system. D700 does have sensor cleaning as you say (D3 does not). The 35mm cameras are considerably better when ambient light becomes poor. You can crank up the ISO with little worry of noise.

[Edited 2009-04-25 18:23:33]
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:02 am

Just having two Pro bodies does not mean you can join Nikon Professional Services.

While Canon allows anyone to join theirs, Nikon's NPS is reserved for true professionals.

You can read more here:

Nikon Professional Services is available only to bona-fide, FULL-TIME professional photographers. There are absolutely no costs involved in joining NPS, only important benefits designed to help you.
To become a member:

* Write a letter of introduction to Nikon Professional Services (see address below) on your letterhead (or your company's stationery).
* Tell us about your photography and request an invitation to join.
* You will need to meet the qualifying requirements below after you receive your application.

To qualify:

* NPS Sponsor (existing member to verify that you are a full-time photographer)
* Current Tear Sheets (published within the last 12 months)
* Ownership of a minimum of 2 Nikon Professional Bodies and 3 Nikkor or DX Nikkor lenses


http://www.nikonpro.com/AboutNPS.aspx
 
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cpd
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:26 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
Just having two Pro bodies does not mean you can join Nikon Professional Services.

I realise that - and I did mention other prerequisites (ie, read the fine print).

I didn't realise that other countries had more strict requirements (the ones on that site are really different). I was speaking on advice I'd had from one of our photographers that is part of it who was trying to get me to join up. Where I work, we do have a full time photography team (we are part of the same team) using mainly Nikon gear. I haven't done anything about it yet.

It looks like our arm of NPS / NPS Lite might be aimed at getting people to buy their gear through the local official distributors, rather than abroad.

[Edited 2009-04-25 22:32:13]

[Edited 2009-04-25 22:35:31]
 
codeshare
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:14 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 6):
The crop factor doesn't provide extra reach - it's simply a crop, with a narrower angle of view. It doesn't help quality either. Even worse, it means that lenses don't perform as they should. You end up with 300mm lenses having a view angle of something like a 450mm, etc. But worse, if you look at lenses like the new 14-24mm Zoom Nikkor, on a 24x16mm body, you lose the usefulness of that lens. Same with the 24-70mm Zoom Nikkor.

This is true. I have the Tokina 12-24 which is excellent for DX cameras. I did have a few days with the 14-24 mounted on the D300. Quality is excellent, but I'd rather have this lens with an FX camera.

KS/codeshare
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
viv
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:22 am



Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 5):
a crop factor only appears to give you a better reach, but in reality, it is more like a digital zoom. While a full frame registers all the light coming through the lens, the smaller sensor cuts off information on all sides, therefore giving you the appearance of a zoom. It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS.

This is absolutely right, but very many people do not understand it. I have given up trying to explain it in this forum.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
timdegroot
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:07 am



Quoting Viv (Reply 10):
This is absolutely right, but very many people do not understand it. I have given up trying to explain it in this forum.

It's still useful. I for one wouldnt want a fullframe camera because my shooting is geared towards the long ranges, and yes I crop a lot too even on the crop camera so I can only imagine how much I'd have to crop on a fullframe camera.

I'd like a 5D as well for other types of photography but I would not trade it my 40D (and pay a little premium Wink ) for one.

Each his own I guess. If you want a compromise go with the 1.3 crop bodies, not sure what they are called in Nikon land Smile

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
javibi
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:23 am



Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 5):
It's like taking a full frame picture and later cropping it in PS

That is right, but for people to have the full picture (pun intended) pixel density has to be taken into account when deciding if a FF or APS sensor is the way to go.

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...Camera_System/pixel_density_01.htm

j
 
JakTrax
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:03 pm

A full-frame will always produce a finer, crisper image in my opinion. Like others have said, my 70-200 F4 L on something like a 5D wouldn't perform exactly as it was intended. Having said that, I'm more than happy with my (ageing) 30D and would perhaps a lot of the time find a full-framer a little awkward for what I do.

Karl
 
stevemchey
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:15 pm

Karl, small correction: A 70-200 on a 5D works exactly as intended. On a 30D it gives you the illusion of a zoom. This becomes especially clear when you move to wide angle. The crop factor has a real limitation there.

In the end it always comes down to what you feel comfortable with. If all you do is airline photography and get the shots you want, there is really no reason to go full frame.
 
timdegroot
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:37 pm

RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:16 pm



Quoting Stevemchey (Reply 14):
The crop factor has a real limitation there.

Maybe a few years ago but with todays wideangles designed for crop cameras that is not an issue anymore

Tim
Alderman Exit
 
JakTrax
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:00 pm

Sorry, typo - I meant my 70-200 F4 L on my 30D doesn't perform as intended, however for me it performs well enough.

Karl
 
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alevik
Crew
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:21 am

The image quality on my D3 and D3X are superior to my D2Xs even when cropped to approximate the same focal lengths. I haven't changed my longest lens (400mm) and spot from the same locations.

I think this is due to the pixel quality as Royal mentioned previously.
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:39 am

I still think the Nikon D2Xs is the ultimate DX camera. I hope to have one some day.
 
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alevik
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RE: Full Frame Or Not Too Full Frame......

Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:03 am

Cue the violins..............
Improvise, adapt, overcome.

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