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SAA380
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Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Wed May 13, 2009 6:10 pm

Hello all,

I am pretty new to photography. I am saving for an SLR and was looking at the Canon 1000D
and 450D.

I have read a few reviews on both cameras and the 1000D seems like a good camera but it's
a bit overpriced. So I think I'll go for the 450D. The 9 point focal areas on the 450D seems better than the 7 on the 1000D.

I've read on most reviews that the 450's images are sometimes 'soft' in darker areas when
shooting in JPEG, is this true and is it really that bad?
I will be mostly shooting at sunny JNB, so would this be a problem when uploading to A.net?

Also is the kit lens with the 450 good enough to meet A.net standards, or should I invest in a better lens? And what good editing software should I get to make the most of my photo's?

I am very excited about my new hobby and I can't wait to get started.

Thanx in advance for the replies!

P.S. Could somebody please explain what 'ISO' means, remember, I am new to photography. Big grin

SAA380  airplane 
Hard work always pays.
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Wed May 13, 2009 6:38 pm

Welcome aboard SAA380,

I won't comment on the 450D or 1000D as I am well behind the times with my 350D.

Regarding the kit lens, while not the world's best or sharpest lens, it is certainly good enough for most typical shots at your local airfield or at airshows. I use the earlier version on a 350D and it is fine for up close static shots of general aviation - for longer ranged shots such as airliners in flight I would prefer something a little sharper. The latest version has image stabilisation which is very useful on occasions, such as in museums which do not allow you to use tripods. I wish my version was the new one, I have the older, non-stabilised version.

Regarding ISO, I can do no better than recommend the link below:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...Digital_Imaging/Sensitivity_01.htm

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
viv
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Wed May 13, 2009 6:39 pm

ISO means the sensitivity of the sensor. Most DSLRs offer a minimum ISO of 100 or 200.

The higher the ISO used, the grainier the photos will be.

Adobe Photoshop Elements is a good programme for post-processing.

Any DSLR body from Canon or Nikon will give perfectly adequate results. The quality of the lenses is far more important than the body.
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
dazbo5
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Wed May 13, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting SAA380 (Thread starter):
remember, I am new to photography

I think you're doing yourself an injustice there Daniel, you've not done too bad so far. Refer back to some of my emails when you first started uploading about how cameras work and the relationship of ISO, shutter and aperture. What's wrong with the camera you are using? It's delivering the goods isn't it? You're better off investing in better lenses than upgrading your body.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
richstuart
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Wed May 13, 2009 7:23 pm

Have a look at this thread I started a few weeks back. Just bought myself a Sony A350 with 18-70 and 75-300 lenses, although the Sony A200 would also be a good bet, seems to get excellent reviews too.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...tion_photography/read.main/331101/
 
chase
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 1:52 am

I have the Canon 450D, and I'm quite happy with it. I got the kit lens, against the strong advice of a friend who is a better photographer than me (only because I didn't think I could afford the lens he was suggesting that I buy). I'm also happy enough with the lens, although I'm not a very experienced photographer yet. Sometimes I think it'd be nice if the lens went a little longer or a little shorter, but I suppose one would feel that way about any lens.

Some things to think about:
1) Canon just released the 500D a month or two ago. It has some improvements over the 450D. Were I buying a camera now instead of back in December, I'd likely go for the 500D.

2) The whole "crop factor" thing. A 10mm lens on an entry-level DSLR such as the ones discussed above will have the same portion of the scene in the frame as a 16mm lens on a higher-level DSLR with a full-size sensor. Kind of nice when shooting telephoto, but kind of a pain if you want to shoot really wide vistas.

Take all of my opinions with a grain of salt. I've only ever submitted one photo here (and it was rejected).

As far as ISO, consider this picture: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090219.html
I was so impressed with it that I emailed the photographer, and he told me he shot this at ISO1600. If he had shot it at ISO400, that means that the sensor would have only been 1/4 as sensitive to the stars' light. Therefore to get a photo this bright at ISO400, he'd have had to have either opened the aperture 4x as wide, or left the shutter open 4x as long. Perhaps his lens may have been at the widest aperture already. And leaving the shutter open 4x as long may have caused the stars to noticeably streak across the sky. If he had shot it at ISO400 and just left the aperture and exposure time as they were, the picture would have been *much* darker. So in other words, if he was shooting at ISO400, no matter what he did with aperture and exposure, he probably wouldn't have been able to get a picture this good. I know this is airliners.net and not picturesofstars.net or something, but this is the best example photo that came to mind. As others said above, the downside is higher ISO = more noise in the photo.

[Edited 2009-05-13 18:58:47]
 
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SAA380
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 4:09 pm



Quoting Dazbo5 (Reply 3):
Quoting SAA380 (Thread starter):
remember, I am new to photography

I think you're doing yourself an injustice there Daniel, you've not done too bad so far. Refer back to some of my emails when you first started uploading about how cameras work and the relationship of ISO, shutter and aperture. What's wrong with the camera you are using? It's delivering the goods isn't it? You're better off investing in better lenses than upgrading your body.

Hi there,

I think you are mistaking me for someone else. I have never uploaded av. pics to A.net.
As I said, I am still deciding which first camera to buy.
Thanks for the info though.  Smile

Quoting Richstuart (Reply 4):

The Sony was an option too at one point, but I think I'll go for the Canon.

Quoting Chase (Reply 5):
Some things to think about:
1) Canon just released the 500D a month or two ago. It has some improvements over the 450D. Were I buying a camera now instead of back in December, I'd likely go for the 500D.

2) The whole "crop factor" thing. A 10mm lens on an entry-level DSLR such as the ones discussed above will have the same portion of the scene in the frame as a 16mm lens on a higher-level DSLR with a full-size sensor. Kind of nice when shooting telephoto, but kind of a pain if you want to shoot really wide vistas.

Take all of my opinions with a grain of salt. I've only ever submitted one photo here (and it was rejected).

I saw the 500D was anounced but it seems a bit too pricey for what I'm looking for.
I'd rather use that on a good lens and buy a 450D.

Just out of curiosity, why was your photo rejected?
btw that astro picture is spectacular!

Thanks everyone for explaining what ISO means.  Smile

SAA380  airplane 
Hard work always pays.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 4:22 pm

SAA380,

Welcome to the photography forum. There is plenty of good advice given here and generally you'll be steered in the right direction.

If money is a concern I'd recommend a 1000D (my friend has one and I've used it - very nice. See link below for his images on A.net) and spend what you save on a decent lens. The differences between the 1000D and the 450D are minimal - the latter has 2million more pixels (not a big deal), a slightly better AF (not that you'd probably notice) and slightly faster FPS (frames per second, continuous shoot).

My friend's images:
http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...amp+desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=

Regards,

Karl
 
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SAA380
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 7):
My friend's images:
http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...amp desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=

Those photo's are nice. But I see he used a good lens.

I agree that the 1000D is a nice camera and that there isn't much difference between the two,
but I like the solid feel and good grip (which means a lot to me) of the 450. Which made me decide to go for it rather than the 1000. I'll just save for a better lens in the long run.
The 450D kit lens seems like it is not that bad.

I wanted to ask, but didn't want to start a new thread, what the ''(cn number)'' next to
the aircraft reg. number in the remark section of an uploaded photo means?

SAA380  airplane 
Hard work always pays.
 
chase
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 5:12 pm



Quoting SAA380 (Reply 6):
Just out of curiosity, why was your photo rejected?

I've had a hard drive crash since then, so I don't know that I could easily find the photo for you, but:
It was of a CRJ, taken at ORD (through a glass window in the terminal), and at the time it was either a newly-built or newly-acquired/painted aircraft, so there were not any other photos of it on a.net yet. There wasn't anything obscuring my view of this aircraft. However, the rejection email stated that the aircraft was too far back in the background of the photo, meaning there was too much empty space around it in the picture. The simple solution would have been to just crop and resubmit, but the resulting picture would probably have been too small.
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 5:17 pm

cn is the 'construction number'. These are usually given by the manufacturer and are frequently used for their record keeping.

While registrations can change frequently, the cn generally stays with an airframe so, amongst other things, this can be used here to track an aircraft's history. They can change, such as if significant modification work is done, but this is unusual. Be aware that they are not unique, like a fingerprint, there are lots of aircraft with low numbered cn's for example.

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
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SAA380
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 6:08 pm



Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 10):
While registrations can change frequently, the cn generally stays with an airframe so, amongst other things, this can be used here to track an aircraft's history. They can change, such as if significant modification work is done, but this is unusual. Be aware that they are not unique, like a fingerprint, there are lots of aircraft with low numbered cn's for example.

Sorry it's getting a bit off topic, but
should the cn number be manually imputted by me, like the reg. number, in the remark section when uploading a photo? And how do I obtain the cn number of a specific A/C.

Thanks for the info!

SAA380  airplane 
Hard work always pays.
 
GPHOTO
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 6:39 pm



Quoting SAA380 (Reply 11):
should the cn number be manually imputted by me, like the reg. number, in the remark section when uploading a photo? And how do I obtain the cn number of a specific A/C.

For many aircraft that are in the database, the cn will already be in the system. If you enter the registration in the auto-complete section of the upload page it should be automatically selected for you, along with many other details. For aircraft where a registration has been used multiple times over the years, you need to choose the right one. If the aircraft is not in the database or does not currently have a cn associated with it, we would always appreciate it if you could try and find it, but this is not essential.

cn's can be found in books and enthusiast magazines in many countries. The web also has many sites that list registrations with cn's. Beware that not all websites (or 'real-world' publications for that matter) are always correct, but mostly they are - cross check with other sources if possible. Even some of the most reputable publications and websites have errors in their data and trying to sort out the confusion is part of the fun for the Airliners.net Editors (ha!).

Some useful websites include:

Scramble - www.scramble.nl
Airfleets - www.airfleets.net
Airframes.org - www.airframes.org

and there are many more. For publications, organisations such as 'Air Britain' in the UK and 'Scramble' in the Netherlands are very popular. I don't know of any publications for South Africa. Be aware that in some countries, having data on aircraft is not always considered acceptable and can cause problems, so any viewers should check their local situation.

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
Speedy747
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Thu May 14, 2009 8:51 pm

May I suggest you the Canon XTI Rebel? I have one and it's very high quality
 
jgpitre
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Fri May 15, 2009 4:55 am



Quoting Speedy747 (Reply 13):
May I suggest you the Canon XTI Rebel? I have one and it's very high quality

Speedy:

The number and naming conventions are different in different part of the world. The 1000D is an XS and the 450D is an XSi. I do not know if you can even buy an XTi new anymore.

I have both, have used both and they give good results. I think all of my pics on Airliners are with the XSi/450D...but that is because it has my good lens attached.

The XS/1000D has more sustainable burst count (you can fill up the card) but slower smaller pics.And it feels cheaper. But both are quite acceptable in my mind. What you will need is loads of practice and advice. A good user can do more with a cheap body then a hack can with a $10,000 body.
 
JakTrax
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Fri May 15, 2009 5:09 am

I think if you can pick up a new 400D / Rebel XTi for a good price that'd be your best bet. Spend what you save on good glass - I can't emphasise the importance of your lenses enough!!!

Karl
 
dazbo5
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Fri May 15, 2009 10:41 am



Quoting SAA380 (Reply 6):
I think you are mistaking me for someone else

 sorry  it was SAA738 I was thinking off  banghead 

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
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SAA380
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Fri May 15, 2009 4:38 pm



Quoting Dazbo5 (Reply 16):
Quoting SAA380 (Reply 6):
I think you are mistaking me for someone else

it was SAA738 I was thinking off

 laughing  No problem Dazbo! It's understandable.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 15):
I think if you can pick up a new 400D / Rebel XTi for a good price that'd be your best bet. Spend what you save on good glass - I can't emphasise the importance of your lenses enough!!!

Yes, that is why I opted to buy an entry level Canon and use the money I save, plus some extra saving, on a good lens. Rather than buying a very expensive dslr, that I would struggle to operate at my level, with a not so good lens.

I searched the 400D and saw that it has been made mostly with left handed grip. And only a limited number of right handed units were made. But it is nevertheless a good camera and a lot like the 450.

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 12):

Quoting SAA380 (Reply 11):
should the cn number be manually imputted by me, like the reg. number, in the remark section when uploading a photo? And how do I obtain the cn number of a specific A/C.

Thanks for all the info and links regarding the cn number GPHOTO.

SAA380  airplane 
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JakTrax
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Fri May 15, 2009 5:47 pm

A good lens for the money and a great all-round tool is the EF70-300 F4-5.6 IS USM, which is the one used by my friend whose images I supplied a link to. It is made of solid, durable plastic (therefore not to be confused with the much cheaper 75-300 range), has full glass elements (including one ULD element) and a sturdy metal mount.

Very sharp lens, especially between F8-11; easy to use and a good, responsive IS. The only drawback I found when I used it is that it struggled with moving objects in low light (even with IS on).

Karl
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 1:34 am



Quoting SAA380 (Reply 17):
I searched the 400D and saw that it has been made mostly with left handed grip. And only a limited number of right handed units were made

O_o I have the 400D and all the one's I have seen in my life are right handed...
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
JakTrax
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 9:16 am



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 19):
O_o I have the 400D and all the one's I have seen in my life are right handed...

You need to go to the DIY store - the left-handed 400Ds are next to the right-handed screwdrivers and striped paint.....

 Big grin

Karl
 
viv
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 10:22 am



Quoting JakTrax (Reply 18):
You need to go to the DIY store - the left-handed 400Ds are next to the right-handed screwdrivers and striped paint.....

If you dunk your 400D in a bucket of steam it will morph into the right-handed version ...
Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
 
JakTrax
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 2:49 pm

I can't imagine how I ever coped with my 400D if they are all left-handed! No wonder I replaced it with a 30D pretty quickly. Now let me just check which version of that I have.....

 duck 

Karl
 
LOT011
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 4:43 pm

I can say that I have 450D and I'm happy with it. If you thinking of dSLR the most important things are lenses. 450D or 500D (I don't recommend older bodies. The newer are improved. So there is no sense to buy old one when the new [better] one is available) would be great for the beginning. But even EOS 5D or something with for cheap lens will be useless with it's great possibilities. So all in all in DSLR body doesn't matter as much as lens. Better buy "amateur" body and better lens than professional body with poor lens  Smile
 
chase
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RE: Help Deciding On First Dslr Camera

Sat May 16, 2009 5:11 pm

That's probably a good philosophy. In that case, though, assuming you plan to upgrade to a better body someday in the future, stay away from the EF-S lenses. They will work on 450D and 500D, but won't work with bodies that have a full-frame sensor.

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